Catholics only: Do you hate homosexual sex acts (as we are obliged to)?

[urban-hermit]

The reason I ask is that many threads here have Catholics who understand very well that we are supposed to treat homosexuals with respect (a good thing!), but do not seem to grasp the seriousness of the danger to the homosexual of being sexually active.

I post it here in Social Justice because I feel it speaks very much to the common good, however politically incorrect it may sound.

I have heard people say they have a problem with anybody who treats homosexual sex acts as more serious than other mortal sins, such as contraception or fornication. This makes no sense to me.

I have heard people say that homosexual sex acts are expressions of love, which also makes no sense to me.

Are the “peace and love” people missing the fact that the active homosexuals they love will basically rot in hell if they do not repent?

 

[Caesar]

I hate all sinfull actions. Homosexual relations are a mortal sin. To commit a mortal sin removes one from God and His Church, and should they not repent and confess their sin they will remain seperated from God for all eternity in Hell.

The sin of Sodom is so severe that it is one of the four Sins that Cry Out to Heaven for Vengence, along with willful murder, oppression of the poor and defrauding laborers of their wages.

 

[LittleDeb]

Yep you rocked my world with that word ‘hate.’ I know the phrase “God hates sin.” I don’t know how to apply it though. Since I can’t address it with unchaste homosexual friends it becomes difficult to hate the sin. They won’t separate the sin from the sinner so I struggle too.

I tend to be a little too warm fuzzy nurturing at times, especially when it comes to this particular sin. I am sure I have come off to some of my friends from theatre like I am accepting of their acts.

I don’t think I view homosexual acts as a worse sin than fornication. I think I view it as an additional sin. Fornication + same sex acts. That view might be a reason I can come off as being accepting of the acts. I probably need to work on that, but I’m not sure how quite yet.

 

[blessedtoo]

We might all want to say a prayer for charity before we post our responses.

I hate sin. Homosexual behavior is sinful. Therefore, I hate homosexual behavior and all the sexual acts this may include.

However, those who struggle with this (even those who deny that a struggle exists) are beloved to me. They are my brothers and (literal) sisters and their refusal to accept their sinfulness is the only thing that separates them from God.

Rather than focusing on what sin is the greatest in the panoply of immorality, I think the emphasis should be on the CONNECTION between them all.

If we view it from this perspective, one could consider contraception to be the gravest sin, since it was the universal acceptance and promotion of ABC that got the ball rolling. Separating the sexual act of intercourse from procreation has, IMO, created the “anything goes” culture we now find ourselves immersed in. Now, instead of the primary purpose of marital sex being unitive and procreative, it is all about “feelings”, rights, satisfactions, pleasure, equality, etc. We are now free from the burden of procreation and so are free to do whatever we wish. And so we have.

 

[Exalt]

Are the “peace and love” people missing the fact that the active homosexuals they love will basically rot in hell if they do not repent?

So, uh, what do you suggest we do with all these hell-bound homosexuals?

 

[Joan_M]

“Homosexual acts” are an abomination. I think that people who feel that they are just “expressions of love” have never looked directly at, exactly, what they are. They just think that they are another form of sexual expression. However, the parts do not match, they are not supposed to, and, therefore, it is not uncommon for, in the desire for true sexual satisfaction, the perpetrators to sink deeper and deeper into depravity.

I cannot even begin to understand how any people with same-sex attraction to ever take that first step to homosexual acts. If I was afflicted with same-sex attraction I think I would become a hermit!

 

[deb1]

I greatly pity people with same sex desires. Do I hate the sin itself? Yes.

I actually think that the most compassionate response toward homosexuals would be to teach them the value of celebacy.

 

[didymus]

The reason I ask is that many threads here have Catholics who understand very well that we are supposed to treat homosexuals with respect (a good thing!), but do not seem to grasp the seriousness of the danger to the homosexual of being sexually active.

I post it here in Social Justice because I feel it speaks very much to the common good, however politically incorrect it may sound.

I have heard people say they have a problem with anybody who treats homosexual sex acts as more serious than other mortal sins, such as contraception or fornication. This makes no sense to me.

That would be me.
I constantly hear from Christians that homosexuals are destroying the family when it is hedonistic heteros who have already accomplished that with ABC, adultery, divorce, pre-marital sex, &c, &c ad nauseum and when I bring this up the response is usually along the lines of, “Well, yeah, but homosexuality is unnatural” or “it cries out to Heaven” or some such. It’s like a little kid who gets caught and points out other kids who did worse things than he did.

Let’s not forget that many straights are engaging in sodomy (unnatural acts) – does that cry out to Heaven? How about non-unitive intercourse?

I think we should hate all sin and we should have an especial charity toward homosexuals (while being true to Church teaching) because they suffer what is both an emotional and spiritual disorder. By harping on homosexuality we appear to be picking on a minority rather than having a coherent morality of sexuality.

 

[kentuckyliz]

Well, I guess I’m totally confused because just a day or two ago in the CAF, a poster said that oral and anal sex were perfectly acceptable sexual behaviors for married people as long as it was just foreplay (not standalone acts to completion) leading to PIV noncontracepted sex.

If that is true, and the Church teaches anything goes for married people under those conditions, then, I guess I don’t have a problem with those acts in themselves, just the fact that it doesn’t lead to godly PIV noncontracepted sex between heteros. It’s just the “same” in SSA that’s the problem.

How can you say that homosexual sex acts are OK for married people? Is it true that anything goes for married people, as long as you end up with PIV noncontracepted sex?

I’m totally confused.

 

[estesbob]

So, uh, what do you suggest we do with all these hell-bound homosexuals?

Pray incessantly that they will repend ant cease engaging in this sinful behavior.

 

[rboo124]

I am very torn on this…

It seems that people often quote Scripture that says homosexuality is an ‘abomination’ and punishable by death…but did not it go on to say the SAME thing towards other sins that each and every one of us commits?

Focussing only on the sin of homosexuality is a rather separatist act for those of us who are not homosexual…it’s very easy for us to point the finger and judge…however, what about the other sins mentioned, that have been so conveniently edited out? Are we practicing hypocrisy by only mentioning the one sin that does not pertain to us and turning a blind eye to the others that do?

We are ALL sinners…and I take no pride in the fact that I’ve never committed a homosexual act, why should I? I have NO desire to, therefore, I do not deserve to be rewarded by God for abstaining. Overcoming sin is worth reward, if you do not have homosexual urges, then no praise is merited. I am more concerned with my own struggles with lust, gluttony, pride, and sloth than I am with another person’s struggle with homosexuality.

I pray for my gay friends. I also pray for others to find compassion and humility when they find it convenient to point out the sliver in another man’s eye before removing the log from their own. Let’s not rely on the convenience of self-righteousness by picking on another person’s temptation when we have our own to fight.

 

[estesbob]

IFocussing only on the sin of homosexuality is a rather separatist act for those of us who are not homosexual…it’s very easy for us to point the finger and judge…however, what about the other sins mentioned, that have been so conveniently edited out? Are we practicing hypocrisy by only mentioning the one sin that does not pertain to us and turning a blind eye to the others that do?

Nobody is focusing only in the sins of Homosexual behavior although it is interestting that the only threads you here this complaint in the homosexual threads. if you go to a thread on adultery, for instance, no one says:

*only on the sin of adultery is a rather separatist act for those of us who are not **adulterers…*it’s very easy for us to point the finger and judge…however, what about the other sins mentioned, that have been so conveniently edited out?

Nor do many say:

I pray for my adulterous friends. I also pray for others to find compassion and humility when they find it convenient to point out the sliver in another man’s eye before removing the log from their own. Let’s not rely on the convenience of self-righteousness by picking on another person’s temptation when we have our own to fight.

Another interesting thing is never find people claiming that adultery is just an exression of love between two consenthing adults not do we see adultery pride parades nor are we told that adultery is OK becuase Scripture was interprerted wrong. The ttruth is that many are far more likely to defend those who sin via homosexual behavior than those who sin other ways. Your post is a perfect exampole of this.

 

[rboo124]

Nobody is focusing only in the sins of Homosexual behavior although it is interestting that the only threads you here this complaint in the homosexual threads. if you go to a thread on adultery, for instance, no one says:

only on the sin of adultery is a rather separatist act for those of us who are not **adulterers…**it’s very easy for us to point the finger and judge…however, what about the other sins mentioned, that have been so conveniently edited out?

Nor do many say:

I pray for my adulterous friends. I also pray for others to find compassion and humility when they find it convenient to point out the sliver in another man’s eye before removing the log from their own. Let’s not rely on the convenience of self-righteousness by picking on another person’s temptation when we have our own to fight.

Another interesting thing is never find people claiming that adultery is just an exression of love between two consenthing adults not do we see adultery pride parades nor are we told that adultery is OK becuase Scripture was interprerted wrong. The ttruth is that many are far more likely to defend those who sin via homosexual behavior than those who sin other ways. Your post is a perfect exampole of this.

Sin is sin…but adulterers are not cast into the same ‘pool of shame’ as homosexuals. Just as blacks and Jews were once considered ‘sub-human’, so are many homosexuals, who other than their sexual preference, are in many ways no different than anyone else.

I’m not making excuses for homosexuality. I personally just find it judgemental for a bunch of heterosexuals to be concerning themselves with a sin that does not separate THEM from God.

I’m more concerned with focussing on my own sins and character flaws…I’m not going to earn a place in Heaven worrying about how others are living their lives if I’ve got room to improve how I live my own.

I love gay people, as I love straight people. I don’t love the ‘act’ of homosexuality, just as I don’t love the act of adultery. I don’t love any sin…but, I do love the people who commit them.

Judge not lest ye be judged…we all do it, it’s hard not to…but, it doesn’t make it right.

 

[blessedtoo]

Let’s not forget that many straights are engaging in sodomy (unnatural acts) – does that cry out to Heaven? How about non-unitive intercourse?

Well, I guess I’m totally confused because just a day or two ago in the CAF, a poster said that oral and anal sex were perfectly acceptable sexual behaviors for married people as long as it was just foreplay (not standalone acts to completion) leading to PIV noncontracepted sex.

If that is true, and the Church teaches anything goes for married people under those conditions, then, I guess I don’t have a problem with those acts in themselves, just the fact that it doesn’t lead to godly PIV noncontracepted sex between heteros. It’s just the “same” in SSA that’s the problem.

How can you say that homosexual sex acts are OK for married people? Is it true that anything goes for married people, as long as you end up with PIV noncontracepted sex?

For those brilliant members (above) who have already reached the most obvious conclusion and made the connection, I would say you are right to be confused. Based on what you may read on CAF (and other Catholic websites) it would seem the acts themselves are not inherently immoral because heterosexuals who are married are allegedly allowed carte blanche as long as they “finish the proper way.” Hence my conclusion that:

Separating the sexual act of intercourse from procreation has, IMO, created the “anything goes” culture we now find ourselves immersed in. Now, instead of the primary purpose of marital sex being unitive and procreative, it is all about “feelings”, rights, satisfactions, pleasure, equality, etc.

This concept has infected even Catholic thinking and “theology” but it’s obvious there is a glaring contradiction here. Could this have something to do with the confusion Catholics face with regard to homosexuality?

Such acts were considered depraved universally until the sexual revolution elevated physical pleasure above all other marital goods. Such acts were against the law until the push for sexual “freedom” (license) became the prevailing voice of our culture.

A Catholic, who asserts that homosexual acts are contrary to natural law and God’s law, should be consistent and at the very least reflect on the deeper spiritual meaning and implications of such acts, regardless of who engages in them.

 

[estesbob]

I am very torn on this…

It seems that people often quote Scripture that says homosexuality is an ‘abomination’ and punishable by death…but did not it go on to say the SAME thing towards other sins that each and every one of us commits?

Focussing only on the sin of homosexuality is a rather separatist act for those of us who are not homosexual…it’s very easy for us to point the finger and judge…however, what about the other sins mentioned, that have been so conveniently edited out? Are we practicing hypocrisy by only mentioning the one sin that does not pertain to us and turning a blind eye to the others that do?

We are ALL sinners…and I take no pride in the fact that I’ve never committed a homosexual act, why should I? I have NO desire to, therefore, I do not deserve to be rewarded by God for abstaining. Overcoming sin is worth reward, if you do not have homosexual urges, then no praise is merited. I am more concerned with my own struggles with lust, gluttony, pride, and sloth than I am with another person’s struggle with homosexuality.

I pray for my gay friends. I also pray for others to find compassion and humility when they find it convenient to point out the sliver in another man’s eye before removing the log from their own. Let’s not rely on the convenience of self-righteousness by picking on another person’s temptation when we have our own to fight.

So are you saying there should be no discussiojn of specific sins whatspever since we are all sinners? Can you point me to some non homosexual behavior threads where you have likewise admonished posters for discussing specific sins?

 

[estesbob]

Sin is sin…but adulterers are not cast into the same ‘pool of shame’ as homosexuals. Just as blacks and Jews were once considered ‘sub-human’, so are many homosexuals, who other than their sexual preference, are in many ways no different than anyone else.

What a racist comment. To comapare Jews and Blacks to a group of people who’s only distinguishing charateristic is with whom and in what manner they engage in sex is outrageous. As far as the rest -nonsense. I have seen no one jusitfy adultery but i have seen muitludes try and justify homosexual behavior.

I’m not making excuses for homosexuality. I personally just find it judgemental for a bunch of heterosexuals to be concerning themselves with a sin that does not separate THEM from God.

Again are you suggesting that no discussion of specific sins should ever take place?

I’m more concerned with focussing on my own sins and character flaws…I’m not going to earn a place in Heaven worrying about how others are living their lives if I’ve got room to improve how I live my own.

Then why are you joining in this thread?

I love gay people, as I love straight people. I don’t love the ‘act’ of homosexuality, just as I don’t love the act of adultery. I don’t love any sin…but, I do love the people who commit them.

But you are perfectly willing to let them burn in eternal hellfire lest it be considered poining out the seriousness of their sin is being 'judgemental"

Judge not lest ye be judged…we all do it, it’s hard not to…but, it doesn’t make it right.

Other than judge those who point out behavior that is a sin, right?

 

[rboo124]

So are you saying there should be no discussiojn of specific sins whatspever since we are all sinners? Can you point me to some non homosexual behavior threads where you have likewise admonished posters for discussing specific sins?

I’m not admonishing any posters at all. I’m debating the mindset, not any person in here or anything specific that’s been posted in here. If I was, I’d have quoted other people’s points that I took issue with and replied to them.

If my posts are coming across that way, I apologize. I don’t see it, but I may not be typing it the way it’s being read.

I’m simply stating my opinion towards homophobic behavior. It’s not anything that’s specifically been posted in here, it’s how society treats the topic altogether.

Society is completely scizophrenic when it comes to homosexuality…it swings from extreme intolerance to extreme special priviledges. We’re either totally banishing gay people from our ‘clicks’ in society or allowing them to marry eachother! It’s ridiculous.

However…putting all that aside…I have personally noticed many people relying on the writing’s of the Bible while denouncing homosexuality, and I find it rather humorous, because the Bible has been quoted as a means of defending homophobic behavior. That is hypocritical…I’m not saying this in relation to anything posted in here, I’m just stating that in MY life’s experience I’ve seen it done many, many times and I don’t think committing a sin to point out a sin is very productive.

I’m certainly not trying to come across argumentative, at the same time I’m not stepping back from the point I’m attempting to make. I hate sin, but I love all of God’s children regardless of the sins they commit. Who am I to think otherwise?

 

[rboo124]

What a racist comment. To comapare Jews and Blacks to a group of people who’s only distinguishing charateristic is with whom and in what manner they engage in sex is outrageous. As far as the rest -nonsense. I have seen no one jusitfy adultery but i have seen muitludes try and justify homosexual behavior.

I’m extremely surprised and offended by your post.

 

[estesbob]

estesbob;3020392:

What a racist comment. To comapare Jews and Blacks to a group of people who’s only distinguishing charateristic is with whom and in what manner they engage in sex is outrageous. As far as the rest -nonsense. I have seen no one jusitfy adultery but i have seen muitludes try and justify homosexual behavior.
QUOTE]

I’m extremely surprised and offended by your post.

Racist? How dare you?

!

HOW DARE YOU! You have compared a race of people who were bought to this country in chains, sold at will, raped, murdered and beaten with no repurcsussions and who still suffer discrimination today to people defined only by the fact they enage in sodomy. Shame on you.

 

[fix]

For those brilliant members (above) who have already reached the most obvious conclusion and made the connection, I would say you are right to be confused. Based on what you may read on CAF (and other Catholic websites) it would seem the acts themselves are not inherently immoral because heterosexuals who are married are allegedly allowed carte blanche as long as they “finish the proper way.” Hence my conclusion that:

This concept has infected even Catholic thinking and “theology” but it’s obvious there is a glaring contradiction here. Could this have something to do with the confusion Catholics face with regard to homosexuality?

Such acts were considered depraved universally until the sexual revolution elevated physical pleasure above all other marital goods. Such acts were against the law until the push for sexual “freedom” (license) became the prevailing voice of our culture.

A Catholic, who asserts that homosexual acts are contrary to natural law and God’s law, should be consistent and at the very least reflect on the deeper spiritual meaning and implications of such acts, regardless of who engages in them.

Interesting points. Perhaps part of the problem is imprecise use of words? I mean we know homosexual acts are always wrong. Calling certain acts homosexual when they are not homosexual would seem to confuse the matter. In the same way it is confusing when the word contraception is misused or the word artificial is misused or misunderstood.