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maggiemay2u
Guest
Why would you ask that question?
Catholics only: Do you hate homosexual sex acts (as we are obliged to)?
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maggiemay2u
Guest
Prurient and salacious, not to mention sophomoric.
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Archus
Guest
yes I hate it. It is not being homosexual that is the problem. That is fine, it is giving in to those homsexual acts that is the problem, the same way a heterosexual person engages in sexual acts that are unbecoming, like sex before marriage and outside of it. There is no distinction between homosexuality and heterosexuality when it comes to chastity. There is marriage and sex, or there isn’t. It’s that simple.
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bilop
Guest
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truagape
Guest
Because you seem as if the issue being discussed is “celebacy while single.” That isn’t the topic at hand. In fact, I don’t think that any Christian who values chasity would disagree with that. The topic being presented is whether or not those with a same-sex orientation are obliged to remain single for life, and in turn celebate for life. Your original post contrasted nothing of the such. You presented the senario of a single “hetrosexual” and compared that to a single “homosexual”. Okay fine! But the huge difference is that the single “hetrosexual” isn’t obliged to remain celebate even when a mate is found, with the option to enter into a life long commitment. So in that since, the “hetrosexual” isn’t celebate for life, only the life of his singleness, whereas the single "homosexual"is, according to you.
You said that you were celebate and that it was hard. Well most Christians will attest to that regardless of orientation. But the question that I am asking you, which changes the nature of your whole argument, is really quite simple: Are you, have you, and do you expect to be single and therefore celebate for life, without even the hope of marriage?
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truagape
Guest
In other words do you recognize that even the bible agrees with you regarding your statement “Natural, for humans, basically means conforming to the natural law (of right and wrong) that God has written on every soul.”?
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bilop
Guest
I’m not aware of the chapter and verse, but know that that is what the Church has taught since St. Thomas. That’s always been good enough for me.
I’d be interested in the passage if you happen to know it.
God Bless
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truagape
Guest
Just on a side note, do you know what was taught prior to St. Thomas?
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bilop
Guest
No, I’m a little fuzzy on my St. Augustine. I’ve always focused on Aquinas since he has dominated Catholic theology for 800 years.
God Bless
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maggiemay2u
Guest
The simple answer without divulging any information about my own orientation is, yes, homosexuals are called to a celibate life. Soup to nuts, dust to dust. There is no contrasting needed. There are no magical loopholes for gays or lesbians living outside a hetrosexual marriage. Just as a blind person might long to be a sharp shooter, it just isn’t the gift that individual was blessed with. As I said before, the celibate life is an opportunity for great grace and blessing, but God gives us free will, we can choose His path or ignore it and rationalize our way out of it. In the final analysis, it’s up to us, isn’t it?
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truagape
Guest
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truagape
Guest
Well, if you feel this way, then what was the point of your remarks in post # 624 when you compred “homosexuals” to “chaste heterosexuals”?
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maggiemay2u
Guest
Here is my post #624, in its entirety, "Married couples are given the grace of sexual relations with their spouses. If, through death, divorce, annulment or separation, the union no longer exists, than the single Catholic is called to celibacy.
While many Catholics have lapsed in their duty to remain celibate outside of marriage, it doesn’t remove the responsibility. The sin against chastity remains.
While homosexuals may not choose their affinity, they can choose to live their lives as chaste members of Christ’s Church. Not easy, but spiritually, what a grand grace has been offered to them."
As you see, I never compared homosexuals to chaste heterosexuals. The point of the post was, regardless of sexual orientation, sexual activity outside the bonds of heterosexual marriage is a serious sin against chastity.
You are obviously in pain over this issue and that’s why you feel the need to try to argue unchaste behavior into something acceptable to the Lord. I’m so sorry. I’ll pray for you. God bless you and give you strength.
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RobHom
Guest
It is not you that is confused… it was the others who mis-spoke regarding the Church’s stance on those two issues. I have never heard that, nor have I ever read anything of that nature. In fact I believe that I have read somewhere where it is not allowed. I’ll try to find something definitive on the subject.Well, I guess I’m totally confused because just a day or two ago in the CAF, a poster said that oral and anal sex were perfectly acceptable sexual behaviors for married people as long as it was just foreplay (not standalone acts to completion) leading to PIV noncontracepted sex.
If that is true, and the Church teaches anything goes for married people under those conditions, then, I guess I don’t have a problem with those acts in themselves, just the fact that it doesn’t lead to godly PIV noncontracepted sex between heteros. It’s just the “same” in SSA that’s the problem.
How can you say that homosexual sex acts are OK for married people? Is it true that anything goes for married people, as long as you end up with PIV noncontracepted sex?
I’m totally confused.
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truagape
Guest
You’re right, I did mis-read your post. I’m sorry. I’m so used to hearing that lame arguement, that I may have read it into what you wrote. Again , I apologize.
In regards to being in pain, it’s no secret that to an extent I am. But it’s not over the “issue” about whether one believes a “chaste homosexual” is defined as celebate or not. People are free to believe what they want. When scripture gets manipulated beyond its context and content to support that view is when the problem begins. The pain comes from the effort it takes in combating the centuries of powerful, and influential institutions that have harbored the unscriptural teachings regarding “homosexuality”. And the pain also comes from the effects, such dishonest perspectives have had on society’s outlook as a whole regarding those of a different orientation. As I’ve said on many occassions, the scriptural manipulation of this topic is far from innocent.
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maggiemay2u
Guest
My Friend. I am the most simple of persons. I’m the reason Christ spoke in simple stories, He knew I would never be able to figure out the Trinity or the depth of His love. I’m the reason His Father gave us simple (not easy) commandments. I know that by virtue of the fact that I am not married, I am called to be celibate. Rather than snipe and gripe and try to figure out why God let me be the only single in the pew, I try to play the cards I have been dealt with grace and good humor.
QUOTE=truagape;4019993]You’re right, I did mis-read your post. I’m sorry. I’m so used to hearing that lame arguement, that I may have read it into what you wrote. Again , I apologize.
In regards to being in pain, it’s no secret that to an extent I am. But it’s not over the “issue” about whether one believes a “chaste homosexual” is defined as celebate or not. People are free to believe what they want. It’s when scripture gets manipulated beyond its context and content to support that view. The pain comes from the effort it takes in combating the centuries of powerful, and influential institutions that have harbored the unscriptural teachings regarding “homosexuality”. And the pain also comes from the effects, such dishonest perspectives have had on society’s outlook as a whole regarding those of a different orientation. As I’ve said on many occassions, the scriptural manipulation of this topic is far from innocent.
QUOTE=truagape;4019993]You’re right, I did mis-read your post. I’m sorry. I’m so used to hearing that lame arguement, that I may have read it into what you wrote. Again , I apologize.
In regards to being in pain, it’s no secret that to an extent I am. But it’s not over the “issue” about whether one believes a “chaste homosexual” is defined as celebate or not. People are free to believe what they want. It’s when scripture gets manipulated beyond its context and content to support that view. The pain comes from the effort it takes in combating the centuries of powerful, and influential institutions that have harbored the unscriptural teachings regarding “homosexuality”. And the pain also comes from the effects, such dishonest perspectives have had on society’s outlook as a whole regarding those of a different orientation. As I’ve said on many occassions, the scriptural manipulation of this topic is far from innocent.
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truagape
Guest
Thus far, we are actually in agreement.
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Janet_S
Guest
Maybe the pain comes from homosexuality itself, not from “oppressive” religions or from society. At least consider this as a possibility, as politically incorrect as that may be.
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truagape
Guest
I’m sorry but I’m going to have to dismiss that with a quickness! It isn’t homosexuality that tells you you’re a sin. It isn’t homosexuality that tries to convince me that my desire for companionship is warped. It isn’t homosexuality that dishonestly tells me God destroyed an entire city because of their orientation. It isn’t homosexuality that looks at people as myself as either to be pitied, feared, or mistreated. It isn’t homosexuality that manipulated scripture and ripped it out of context. It isn’t homosexuality that tears certain ones from even their families, their congregations and even society itself. It isn’t homosexuality that has a history of persecution and rejection. Sweetie, it isn’t homosexuality that’s the problem. It never was! It’s people and their influenced, dishonesty, alligence to the Traditions of men, instead of the inspired, infalliable Word of God. And despite, popular opinion, it was God who knew the TRUTH of all of this all along!
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Janet_S
Guest
Maybe homosexuality is the problem. That’s all I’m saying. When all of society is lined up with the gay rights movement (like it is now, for the most part), and those people actively involved in homosexual sex are still suffering from the effects of their life style–high rate of alcoholism, STD’s, depression, and shortened life expectancy at least for males-- whose fault will it be then?
Obviously you bought into a lot of the lies and propaganda of the gay political movement–lies that aren’t supported by the biological sciences, the social sciences, or common sense. The only place you will get the truth about homosexuality is from the Catholic Church. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but that’s the way it is. The Church does not consider that you are a “sin.” You’re just a person who is struggling like we all are. Your characterization of the the Church’s arguments against homosexuality are flawed. The Church’s view of homosexual behavior is based not only on scripture (revelation), but also on reason (the natural law).
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19751229_persona-humana_en.html
ewtn.com/library/HUMANITY/PSYCHOMO.HTM
If you’re an open-minded person with a desire for truth, at least give the Church a fair chance and listen to what she teaches. It makes a lot of sense, and it may change your life.
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