Catholics only: Do you hate homosexual sex acts (as we are obliged to)?

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blessedtoo said:
Because you are a Catholic, your posts depress me even more than the belligerent gay apologists who drop by here on occasion to provoke and malign.
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I find TMC’s posts refreshing, showing that some Catholics can be wise, compassionate, and carefully reflective! It’s a nice counterpoint to the usual dreary CAF obsession with sex and contraception.
 
catharina said:
As it also seems to interest you that he has partnered: “Our classical choir director is gay, and his partner is one of my fellow baritones.” If you implied something but didn’t intend to do so, then you could have stated it more clearly. It’s a fantasy to attempt to undo what you said by blaming those who can’t understand what you “meant” to say.
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No, I have no interest in their sex life. We work together for the musical enrichment of parish liturgies. Some members of the choir are gay or lesbian, some are heterosexual, some seem asexual; some are white, some black, some Hispanic, some Asian; one is schizophrenic, one partially sighted. None of that mattered as we rehearsed and sang a glorious Schubert Mass in G for Christmas Midnight Mass. In our parish these differences are simply non-issues. What matters is our contribution to divine worship.
 
TMC said:
We will just have to disagree here. Catholics who have been divorced and civilly remarried are pretty public. A parishoner in my parish had an unfortunately public divorce that featured many lurid tales about his adulterous behavior - he was embarrased but he met mostly with sympathy. Homosexuality is not any more public or scandalous than these things. Even birth control use, which is not really kept secret, is as obvious to an outside observer as homosexuality. Why is what those people do in their bedrooms more ‘private’ and what homosexuals do more public? Why should we assume that birth control users, adulterers, and fornicators are trying to reform themselves but homosexuals are not? Certainly there are some pretty extreme and ‘out there’ homosexuals on TV, but I don’t scandalize all young heterosexuals because Miss Spears can’t find her knickers. Homosexuals are treated differently. They are all castigated because some idiots thousands of miles away have a parade. Why do their actions rebound to all homosexuals but Ms. Spears actions do not effect all heterosexuals?

But this goes beyond the “your sex is more sinful than mine” problem. I would think that we would agree that sanctity of life issues are more important to the Church than homosexuality. But, other than abortion, Catholics that publically advocate against the Church’s teachings on life issues including the death penalty, torture, embryonic research, and euthanasia are not ranted against. Some believe those things quietly, but many (some in my parish) are quite public and vocal about it. I could go on and on. The only issue that draws the same emotional response as homosexuality is abortion. Only those two draw so much hate from Catholics that it is nearly impossible to stay in the Church. I keep hearing here that we have so many homosexual threads because the pro-gay folks start them, but look at the OP for this one. Many, if not most, of them are started by people who are basically saying “Hey, don’t you guys hate the gays just like me?” If we love these people and want to help them we have an odd way of showing it.
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I am the Original Poster in this thread, TMC. I don’t “hate the gays”. :rolleyes:

How should things be, TMC? Abortion, fornication, contraception, homosexual sex acts … do any or all of these register as blips on your moral radar screen? Do you hate these sins? Are you able to distinguish between an action and a person?

With a permanent marker, draw a line on your screen between the phrase and what it refers to:

a)PERSON. . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c)NEITHER DO I CONDEMN YOU

b)ACTION. . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d)GO AND SIN NO MORE
 
I thought it was common knowledge in pretty much 95% of Christianity that homosexual acts were forbidden?
 
urban-hermit said:
I am the Original Poster in this thread, TMC. I don’t “hate the gays”. :rolleyes:

How should things be, TMC? Abortion, fornication, contraception, homosexual sex acts … do any or all of these register as blips on your moral radar screen? Do you hate these sins? Are you able to distinguish between an action and a person?

With a permanent marker, draw a line on your screen between the phrase and what it refers to:

a)PERSON. . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c)NEITHER DO I CONDEMN YOU

b)ACTION. . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d)GO AND SIN NO MORE
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Correct!

“c” is to “a”, as “d” is to “b”
 
dconstruct said:
Give me one example. Give me one example of Jesus being intentionally cruel to someone because they disagreed with him. Just one.
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Mark 16:

[15]
And he said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation.

[16]
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.​

As always, the Lord is not intentionally cruel, the PERSON CHOOSES to turn away from Him. His commandments are for our good. We have to be humble enough to believe that.

God does not save us against our own will. He has given us grace upon grace, but He waits for our human free will to respond.
 
drpmjhess said:
Your point being?
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See below, Catharina clarified it pretty well:D
You wrote one thing that implies sex between these men, if that was not your intention then you should correct it, just my 2cents.
catharina said:
Insult me as you feel you need to do so, but you certainly suggested the sexual intimacy of the two when you labelled them as partners. If you didn’t mean that, then say so.

I can promise you that I am not facinating at all.
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catharina said:
As it also seems to interest you that he has partnered: “Our classical choir director is gay, and his partner is one of my fellow baritones.” If you implied something but didn’t intend to do so, then you could have stated it more clearly. It’s a fantasy to attempt to undo what you said by blaming those who can’t understand what you “meant” to say.
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estesbob said:
I am still very curious as to how you know that many of the married couples you know dont have sex.
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Yep - unsubstantiated factoids can be such a nuisance when one is discussing matters of faith, morals, TRUTH. (Guess I should add that the “sung praise” quotient of that sung Mass might be rather dependent on the state of grace of the singers.)
 
drpmjhess said:
No, I have no interest in their sex life. We work together for the musical enrichment of parish liturgies. Some members of the choir are gay or lesbian, some are heterosexual, some seem asexual; some are white, some black, some Hispanic, some Asian; one is schizophrenic, one partially sighted. None of that mattered as we rehearsed and sang a glorious Schubert Mass in G for Christmas Midnight Mass. In our parish these differences are simply non-issues. What matters is our contribution to divine worship.
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For one who says none of this matters you sure seem focused used on you fellow choir members race and sexual beahvior You have them all pigeonholed based on the manner of sex they engage in or do not engagee in. Do you guys ever get around to singing?

I also wonder that if you are correctly desrcibing the make up of your choir so what? Why does it matter if there are homosexual members of your choir? Unles they are wering rainbow sashes or announcing to every parishioner they come across that they are homosexual it would not be an issue, would it?
 
drpmjhess said:
I don’t know how you define partner; I know lots of married heterosexual couples who don’t have sex. I think of mutual love as defining a partnership, not sex.
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Partnership? Is that a sacrament in the Church?
 
Well…? Grrrr. I am now seeing from the outside what my wishy washy response to active homosexuals looks like.

It has been suggested within this thread that the intimate love a married couple shares is interchangeable with the intimate love of partnered homosexuals. Do some people really believe that an elderly couple who no longer have marital relations is the same as a partnered homosexual couple? So even though a same sex intimate love lacks complementarity it is the same as a complementary intimate love? I realize that in my own dealings with the world I had, in my past, implied that too.

If the argument is that the “intimate love” of a homosexual couple is like the deep love I share with my best friend, then you will get no disagreement from me. But, it seems as if it is being stated that same sex love is interchangeable with marital love. Am I reading this wrong or are there people here stating that my marriage is interchangeable with the “love” of a same sex couple?

Love is not just a feeling. Love is a decision. Love is an act.
 
fix said:
Partnership? Is that a sacrament in the Church?
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Must be a new one:rolleyes:

A partnership sounds like a business transaction, while marriage sounds like a sacrament, what would I rather have a business transaction or a sacrament:hmmm:
 
estesbob said:
For one who says none of this matters you sure seem focused used on you fellow choir members race and sexual beahvior You have them all pigeonholed based on the manner of sex they engage in or do not engagee in. Do you guys ever get around to singing?

I also wonder that if you are correctly desrcibing the make up of your choir so what? Why does it matter if there are homosexual members of your choir? Unles they are wering rainbow sashes or announcing to every parishioner they come across that they are homosexual it would not be an issue, would it?
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To your questions:
(1) Yes, we sing a lot. Palestrina, Byrd, Haydn, Schubert, Mozart, Bach, Tallis.

(2) It doesn’t matter. Race, age, gender, and sexual orientation are not determining factors of our choir membership.

(3) No rainbow sashes – we all wear black bottoms and white tops for concerts; I hope we get proper choir robes soon for Mass.
 
drpmjhess said:
(2) It doesn’t matter. Race, age, gender, and sexual orientation are not determining factors of our choir membership.
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Where does scandal fit in to membership? Does it matter, or is this group based on a legal brief? Which Church teachings get to be nuanced or left out?
 
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