Catholics only: Do you hate homosexual sex acts (as we are obliged to)?

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drpmjhess said:
To your questions:
(1) Yes, we sing a lot. Palestrina, Byrd, Haydn, Schubert, Mozart, Bach, Tallis.

(2) It doesn’t matter. Race, age, gender, and sexual orientation are not determining factors of our choir membership.

(3) No rainbow sashes – we all wear black bottoms and white tops for concerts; I hope we get proper choir robes soon for Mass.
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If no one knows there are homosexuals in the choir (other than you it appears) why does it matter? It seems like you are trying to make a case that the makeup of your choir somehow trumps 2,000 years of Church teaching on homosexualtiy.
 
wifeandmomoftwo said:
Then “why” mention your “two homosexual partners” in the Choir? :confused:
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I don’t have two homosexual partners – I have one wife!👍

Actually, I’ve now lost track of this conversation; I think it began with “do you hate homosexuals as you’re supposed to” or something like that. I don’t care. I mentioned them in the context of this argument to point out that there are homosexuals in all walks of society, including church choirs. But there are heterosexuals too – we’re surrounded by them!:eek: 😉

My wife and I both work for very secular organizations (science and medicine), and we both regularly field questions from hostile atheists or cynical “recovering Catholics” (boy do I hate that term!) about why our church is so obsessed with homosexuality and contraception instead of serious issues like illegal wars, capital punishment, or denying health care to children. We generally respond that there are Catholics who do care about the latter.
 
estesbob said:
If no one knows there are homosexuals in the choir (other than you it appears) why does it matter? It seems like you are trying to make a case that the makeup of your choir somehow trumps 2,000 years of Church teaching on homosexualtiy.
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We are a social group as well as a musical one; everyone knows something about the others. It would be difficult not to know each other socially as we have parish events.
 
fix said:
Where does scandal fit in to membership? Does it matter, or is this group based on a legal brief? Which Church teachings get to be nuanced or left out?
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Scandal is not a requirement. Murder would matter, as would child abuse, larceny of church funds, arson, theft, hostility within the group. These could hurt the group’s readiness to sing.
 
drpmjhess said:
Scandal is not a requirement. Murder would matter, as would child abuse, larceny of church funds, arson, theft, hostility within the group. These could hurt the group’s readiness to sing.
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So two men living as “partners” is not a scandal?:confused:
Since when is living as an active homosexual not a scandal in the Catholic Church?:confused:
The term “partner” that you used to describe these two men has the connotation of them being active sexual partners, how is that not a scandal?
 
drpmjhess said:
Actually, I’ve now lost track of this conversation; I think it began with “do you hate homosexuals as you’re supposed to” or something like that. I don’t care.
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So far only you have mentioned the above. Perhaps you’re overdue for a course in Remdial Reading?
 
drpmjhess said:
about why our church is so obsessed with homosexuality and contraception instead of serious issues like illegal wars, capital punishment, or denying health care to children. We generally respond that there are Catholics who do care about the latter.
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Serious issues? Immortal souls no longer matter? To see the seriousness of sin we first need to have a properly conscience. If we do not make that effort then we will not see the gravity of sin.
 
wifeandmomoftwo said:
The term “partner” that you used to describe these two men has the connotation of them being active sexual partners, how is that not a scandal?
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I know they love each other, but I haven’t inquired about details beyond that. I suppose I could ask them, if you really need to know, but I’m hesitant to do that.
 
drpmjhess said:
Scandal is not a requirement.
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Not required, but if happens does it matter?
Murder would matter, as would child abuse, larceny of church funds, arson, theft, hostility within the group. These could hurt the group’s readiness to sing.
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So, readiness to sing is the deciding factor?
 
drpmjhess said:
I don’t have two homosexual partners – I have one wife!👍

My wife and I both work for very secular organizations (science and medicine), and we both regularly field questions from hostile atheists or cynical “recovering Catholics” (boy do I hate that term!) about why our church is so obsessed with homosexuality and contraception instead of serious issues like illegal wars, capital punishment, or denying health care to children. We generally respond that there are Catholics who do care about the latter.
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You mean why is the Church more concerned about confronting sin than it is about throwing out the Cathecism and adopting the democrat party platform?
 
When someone can demonstrate that the Catholic condemnations of homosexuality and contraception are disproportionate to the onslaught to browbeat everyone into giving moral approval of them, I’ll accept the accusation that we are “obsessed”. (Friendly inside tip: don’t double-down on losing bets.:)) Or to put it with my oft-used quote: When we start seeing Theives’ Pride parades, I assure you there will be more Catholic condemnations of stealing.
 
fix said:
Good to know that parish has their priorities ordered by pragmatism rather than truth. Is that a Catholic Church?
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Should there be a morality test to sign in the choir? If so, what sins should we be checking for? Would they have to sign something, or how would it work?
 
It seems to me that at least one late coming poster is not arguing from a point of logic or Church teaching, but rather doing nothing more than trying to stir the pot. I have seen the same thing on other threads.

We can only only presume that the poster’s “real life” examples are not fabrications.

The points that poster raised have been addressed and it is clear to all that the poster’s comments are in direct opposition to Church teachings.

Generally, it is best not to respond to uncharitable posts but rather ignore posts, or posters, like many of the ones above.

I have noticed that the degree of charity on this thread has dropped markedly in the last 18 hours. I think it is time that we all catch our breath, not rise to bait contained in uncharitable posts and either walk away, or resume a charitable discussion. It would be unfortunate if moderators started handing out penalties to those baited into uncharitable responses.
 
TMC said:
Should there be a morality test to sign in the choir? If so, what sins should we be checking for? Would they have to sign something, or how would it work?
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I find this question worded in a needlessly impertinent and challenging manner. It appears uncharitable. Such wording does not generally help keep a discussion calm and peaceful.

That does not change the fact that it is a question whose answer is “Yes”.

Someone engaged in public sin is a bringing scandal on the Church and should not hold positions of leadership or service in Church or parish.
 
Scottgun said:
When someone can demonstrate that the Catholic condemnations of homosexuality and contraception are disproportionate to the onslaught to browbeat everyone into giving moral approval of them, I’ll accept the accusation that we are “obsessed”. (Friendly inside tip: don’t double-down on losing bets.:)) Or to put it with my oft-used quote: When we start seeing Theives’ Pride parades, I assure you there will be more Catholic condemnations of stealing.
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👍

Yep, or nation-wide Adulterer’s Pride parades.
 
TMC said:
Should there be a morality test to sign in the choir? If so, what sins should we be checking for? Would they have to sign something, or how would it work?
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Public sin should be addressed by the pastor. That would inlcude not having such a sign that contradicts the moral law. What good is it to lead another to believe there is no error in living contrary to the Gospel message?
 
TMC said:
Should there be a morality test to sign in the choir? If so, what sins should we be checking for? Would they have to sign something, or how would it work?
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Interesting question. I know the Diocese of Bend, Oregon, now requires all lectors, choristers, eucharistic and other ministers to sign some sort of oath. I’m afraid if we required our choir to pass a sin test we would have no choir.
 
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