Catholics only: Do you hate homosexual sex acts (as we are obliged to)?

[fix]

Interesting question. I know the Diocese of Bend, Oregon, now requires all lectors, choristers, eucharistic and other ministers to sign some sort of oath. I’m afraid if we required our choir to pass a sin test we would have no choir.

Not a sin test, but an oath. Why would it be hard to publicly attest to Church teaching?

 

[TMC]

Interesting question. I know the Diocese of Bend, Oregon, now requires all lectors, choristers, eucharistic and other ministers to sign some sort of oath. I’m afraid if we required our choir to pass a sin test we would have no choir.

I fear the same for my parish, except maybe for my wife who has a permanent credit balance for putting up with me.

 

[Shylah]

Hmm… well, I am sort of a newish Catholic, and I am still learning here, but aren’t choir members part of a lay ministry? Just like Eucharistic, stewardship, Steven’s, etc… Seems that the lay ministers do have a greater responsibility to remain in a state of grace, meaning frequent confession, greater participation in daily Mass, etc, since they have to deal with greater challenges, potentially in the form of spiritual warfare.

I once served in a choir for about a year after my confirmation, and there was an expectation to watch over each other’s spiritual health and well-being. I am not sure if that is the norm in Catholic choirs, but I would argue this is necessary to fulfill Christ’s desire for unity, and I really believe the lay ministers need to serve as role models for this unity effort.

 

[drpmjhess]

I fear the same for my parish, except maybe for my wife who has a permanent credit balance for putting up with me.

That’s true of my wife as well! But a good sense of humor takes us a long way. One of the things I like best about our parish is the humor and joy we (most of us) share in each other’s presence during and after liturgies. This has a strong positive effect on our young people – an age group are frequently turned off religion by constant negativity and judgment.

 

[estesbob]

That’s true of my wife as well! But a good sense of humor takes us a long way. One of the things I like best about our parish is the humor and joy we (most of us) share in each other’s presence during and after liturgies. This has a strong positive effect on our young people – an age group are frequently turned off religion by constant negativity and judgment.

It is funny on how a discussion on the sinfullness of homosexuality has suddenly morphed into a dscussion on negativity and judgement of religion. So if one of these young people you are so concered about tells you that they see no problem with being an active homosexual and being Catholic do you just say “welcome to the Choir”

 

[drpmjhess]

It is funny on how a discussion on the sinfullness of homosexuality has suddenly morphed into a dscussion on negativity and judgement of religion. So if one of these young people you are so concered about tells you that they see no problem with being an active homosexual and being Catholic do you just say “welcome to the Choir”

No, being unwilling to condemn homosexuals is not a disqualification from choir membership.

 

[TMC]

Hmm… well, I am sort of a newish Catholic, and I am still learning here, but aren’t choir members part of a lay ministry? Just like Eucharistic, stewardship, Steven’s, etc… Seems that the lay ministers do have a greater responsibility to remain in a state of grace, meaning frequent confession, greater participation in daily Mass, etc, since they have to deal with greater challenges, potentially in the form of spiritual warfare.

I once served in a choir for about a year after my confirmation, and there was an expectation to watch over each other’s spiritual health and well-being. I am not sure if that is the norm in Catholic choirs, but I would argue this is necessary to fulfill Christ’s desire for unity, and I really believe the lay ministers need to serve as role models for this unity effort.

I think that everyone is called to be good examples to each other. For the choir, they should be taking care of each other (ours certainly does) and they should take care to present a good example during Mass (because everyone can see them, etc.). They do a pretty good job of that, too. But to give them a special duty to live good lives would imply, to me, that those in the pews are not so called. All the laity are celebrating the Mass together, not just the ones up front.

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

No, being unwilling to condemn homosexuals is not a disqualification from choir membership.

I guess neither is being an active homosexual in a Catholic parish:shrug:

 

[TMC]

I guess neither is being an active homosexual in a Catholic parish:shrug:

No, its not. Are you suggesting that being homosexual incurs some latae sententiae penalty?

 

[estesbob]

No, being unwilling to condemn homosexuals is not a disqualification from choir membership.

Thats not what i asked-the kid admits to being an active homosexual and claims it is not a sin. Do you ignore that even though it is puting his immortal soul in danger? Is that compassion? Is telling people the truth and act of negativity? Is having another choir member more important than this kid ending up in hell?

 

[PBP]

Homosexual sex acts are a mortal sin and do separate a person from relationship with GOD. The same can be said for heterosexual couples who married in the church and perform sexual acts which are not life giving and only satisfy lustful desire. For a person to say “homosexuals will rot in hell” is a bold statement. GOD’s mercy is infinite…even for those of us who may not realize we are in need of it just as much.

 

[rpp]

No, its not. Are you suggesting that being homosexual incurs some latae sententiae penalty?

You are misquoting her.

She said active homosexual. Do not misconstrue her statements. You are being most unfair when you misquote people.

 

[blessedtoo]

It seems to me that at least one late coming poster is not arguing from a point of logic or Church teaching, but rather doing nothing more than trying to stir the pot. I have seen the same thing on other threads.

We can only only presume that the poster’s “real life” examples are not fabrications.

The points that poster raised have been addressed and it is clear to all that the poster’s comments are in direct opposition to Church teachings.

Generally, it is best not to respond to uncharitable posts but rather ignore posts, or posters, like many of the ones above.

I have noticed that the degree of charity on this thread has dropped markedly in the last 18 hours. I think it is time that we all catch our breath, not rise to bait contained in uncharitable posts and either walk away, or resume a charitable discussion. It would be unfortunate if moderators started handing out penalties to those baited into uncharitable responses.

Some do seem to enjoy making a mockery of members who strive to present Catholic teaching on this issue in a clear and unadorned manner. Some would rather derail the thread by declaring that, since we all sin, we are forbidden to discuss the public sins that divide us and confuse many in the Catholic Church. I guess that is easier than actually addressing the questions and issues brought up by the OP and others.

LittleDeb, I appreciate your post. Sometimes we are able to see ourselves in the comments of others on these threads and it can be unsettling to realize we are sending confused messages to the people in our lives. As a member of Encourage, this happens to me constantly, as I read the sad tales of parents who are torn to emotional shreds by their children who are in the homosexual lifestyle. Praise God for providing you this insight!

It appears that many Catholics are unwilling to extend the hand of mercy to their brothers and sisters who remain willfully stuck in sin. It seems we have forgotten our obligation to:

The seven practices of Catholic charity toward our neighbor’s soul:
» Convert the sinne
» Instruct the ignorant
» Counsel the doubtful
» Comfort the sorrowful
» Bear wrongs patiently
» Forgive injuries
» Pray for the living and the dead

 

[rpp]

The charity level of this thread has dropped precipitously.

Two people here are baiting others.

That is not right. Please stop.

 

[estesbob]

Homosexual sex acts are a mortal sin and do separate a person from relationship with GOD. The same can be said for heterosexual couples who married in the church and perform sexual acts which are not life giving and only satisfy lustful desire. For a person to say “homosexuals will rot in hell” is a bold statement. GOD’s mercy is infinite…even for those of us who may not realize we are in need of it just as much.

Well is a good thing then that no one said homosexuals will rot in hell.

 

[drpmjhess]

Well is a good thing then that no one said homosexuals will rot in hell.

See post # 1

 

[estesbob]

See post # 1

I beleieve it was with the caveat “if they do not repent”.

From the Cathecism:

*1874 To choose deliberately - that is, both knowing it and willing it - something gravely contrary to the divine law and to the ultimate end of man is to commit a mortal sin. **This destroys in us the charity without which eternal beatitude is impossible. Unrepented, it brings eternal death. ***

 

[TMC]

You are misquoting her.

She said active homosexual. Do not misconstrue her statements. You are being most unfair when you misquote people.

I am not trying to misquote, and I am not trying to be unfair. Being an active homosexual does not disqualify one from being Catholic. Neither does being an active adulterer, thief or liar. Is there some rule I am unaware of that automatically excommunicates active homosexuals? There is a list of transgressions that bears that penalty, but none of the ‘sex’ sins is on the list as far as I know.

 

[PBP]

estesbob…I didnt completely understand your response to my last posting. I did read someones posting and I quoted it correctly.
My point was to make sure people condemning homosexuals are aware of the possibility of their own sexual relations with the opposite sex may be just as sinful. That persons comment in my opinion was a judgement call of which did not reflect a loving response to a human being.
Take care

 

[rpp]

I am not trying to misquote, and I am not trying to be unfair. Being an active homosexual does not disqualify one from being Catholic. Neither does being an active adulterer, thief or liar. Is there some rule I am unaware of that automatically excommunicates active homosexuals? There is a list of transgressions that bears that penalty, but none of the ‘sex’ sins is on the list as far as I know.

You may not have tried to misquote but you did.

And nothing, not even excommunication, disqualifies anyone from being Catholic.

No one, except you, is raising the issue of excommunication. No one, except you, has suggested or even implied it.

I am certain that you already know this, but I do not intend to insult your intelligence by repeating it.

Active (and therefore unrepentant) homosexuals are excluded from receiving communion, just like any other person who is actively engaged in unrepentant grave (mortal) sin.

Those who sin publicly are excluded from participating in Church or parish leadership or service roles. Ministers of Holy Communion (priests, deacons, bishops and EMoHCs) are also required withhold communion from those engaged in manifest grave (public) sin.

That would include the, presumably accurate, choir and music director examples another poster (whose posts I can only see when quoted by another poster because he is on my Ignore List) raised.

The fact that that this anonymous poster claims (again presumably truthfully) that his priests have no problems with the scandal of having disordered people serving such roles is more a reflection on the abysmal state of pastoral care in his parish that sound Church teaching or need to charitably lead others away from sin.