Catholics only: Do you hate homosexual sex acts (as we are obliged to)?

[blessedtoo]

How could you possibly know if they are or were chaste?

Don’t encourage…

 

[Janet_S]

The question posed by the OP was do you hate homosexual acts. If the question posed had been:

Do you hate smoking?

this thread would have ended by page two and everyone would have agreed. Because as a society, we have been educated over the last 40 years about the dangers of smoking to our health. Smoking, which is neither sinful nor instrinsically disordered, is universally accepted as harmful; not just to the individual but to society at large. Hence, there are now numerous laws in place to prevent this behavior in public and to discourage it in private.

Homosexual acts, which are instrinsically immoral and a sin, are harmful to the body and to the soul. While common sense should be enough to draw conclusions about the physical damage involved, we can also look to science to help us understand the danger involved in such acts. As Catholics, we must certainly understand the danger to the soul. Yet, we remain unwilling to state that we hate homosexual acts. We are somehow able to separate our hatred of the act of smoking from the smoker himself, but in the case of homosexuals we become ambivalent.

Why is that?

Like Chesterton said:

“When you break the big laws, you do not get liberty. You do not even get anarchy. You get the small laws.”

 

[Texas_Roofer]

As you use the term “partner.” I know a chaste lesbian couple who owned a house and cars together for fifty years.

How could you possibly know if they are or were chaste?

But is that not the whole point of the thread

• To infer moral sin must be present
  To infer this type of sin is of some higher form*

Note the word “hate” in the title have you seen a Church posting which records Catholics are to “hate” ?

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

But is that not the whole point of the thread

• To infer moral sin must be present
  To infer this type of sin is of some higher form*

Note the word “hate” in the title have you seen a Church posting which records Catholics are to “hate” ?

welll can you show me a church document that says I should “love” the sin(act)?

 

[catharina]

But is that not the whole point of the thread

• To infer moral sin must be present
  To infer this type of sin is of some higher form*

Note the word “hate” in the title have you seen a Church posting which records Catholics are to “hate” ?

From the Psalms, an ode to David at a better moment in his life:

"7 Your throne, O God, stands forever; your royal scepter is a scepter for justice.

8 ** You love justice and hate wrongdoing; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellow kings**."

Quote is from Psalm 45. This is the third or fourth time I’ve posted this quote in this thread. If the Holy Bible is not a document of the Church, then what is? The Psalms are a part of the Divine Office. The Church prays the Divine Office daily.

 

[blessedtoo]

**

**Passage Romans 12:9:
**

9[Let your] love be sincere (a real thing); hate what is evil [loathe all ungodliness, turn in horror from wickedness], but hold fast to that which is good.
**

 

[blessedtoo]

****1868 ****Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

• by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
• by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
• by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
• by protecting evil-doers.
  vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm#I

 

[catharina]

blessedtoo, thank you for posting Romans 12:9, because I am really tired of repeating myself!

 

[blessedtoo]

blessedtoo, thank you for posting Romans 12:9, because I am really tired of repeating myself!

Yes, I know the feeling!

 

[Texas_Roofer]

From the Psalms, an ode to David at a better moment in his life:

"7 Your throne, O God, stands forever; your royal scepter is a scepter for justice.

8 ** You love justice and hate wrongdoing; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your fellow kings**."

Quote is from Psalm 45. This is the third or fourth time I’ve posted this quote in this thread. If the Holy Bible is not a document of the Church, then what is? The Psalms are a part of the Divine Office. The Church prays the Divine Office daily.

---

catharina:

blessedtoo, thank you for posting Romans 12:9, because I am really tired of repeating myself!

Yes, I know the feeling!

Your interpretation is interesting; In Roman’s 12 Paul is clearly speak to our internal guidance. Not only is Paul not speaking of his neighbor he writes “Let love be sincere; hate what is evil, hold on to what is good; love one another with mutual affection; anticipate one another in showing honor”. Additionally he shows no distinction for a homosexual nor a hate generated by God

Psalm 45 is a love song to the king it states the King hates wrongdoing , it is also clear the king does not include polygamy. However again it says nothing about homosexuals, or God harboring any hate.

In summary neither tells you to hate others or their actions. Romans repeats Christ teaching which is just the opposite in summary it says to love your neighbor *“Do not repay anyone evil for evil; be concerned for what is noble in the sight of all. If possible, on your part, live at peace with all. Beloved, do not look for revenge but leave room for the wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” Rather, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head.” Do not be conquered by evil but conquer evil with good… *

 

[catharina]

Your interpretation is interesting; In Roman’s 12 Paul is clearly speak to our internal guidance. Not only is Paul not speaking of his neighbor he writes “Let love be sincere; hate what is evil, hold on to what is good; love one another with mutual affection; anticipate one another in showing honor”. Additionally he shows no distinction for a homosexual nor a hate generated by God

Psalm 45 is a love song to the king it states the King hates wrongdoing , it is also clear the king does not include polygamy. However again it says nothing about homosexuals, or God harboring any hate.

In summary neither tells you to hate others or their actions. Romans repeats Christ teaching which is just the opposite in summary it says to love your neighbor “Do not repay anyone evil for evil; be concerned for what is noble in the sight of all. If possible, on your part, live at peace with all. Beloved, do not look for revenge but leave room for the wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” Rather, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head.” Do not be conquered by evil but conquer evil with good…

IMO, it is sad beyond words that you insist on linking hatred of sin to a hatred of the sinner. How and why you chose to do so is beyond me but I’m certain that there is nothing in this thread that could have led you to such a conclusion. Again, with others who have already stated this, I remind you that we are called to practice the corporal and spiritual works of mercy. In working with very young men as they approached death from fullblown AIDS, I was called to all of these practices (as well as the corporal works of mercy):

» Convert the sinner

» Instruct the ignorant

» Counsel the doubtful

» Comfort the sorrowful

» Bear wrongs patiently

» Forgive injuries

» Pray for the living and the dead

None of the men ever imagined I hated them.

 

[urban-hermit]

Your interpretation is interesting; In Roman’s 12 Paul is clearly speak to our internal guidance. Not only is Paul not speaking of his neighbor he writes “Let love be sincere; hate what is evil, hold on to what is good; love one another with mutual affection; anticipate one another in showing honor”. Additionally he shows no distinction for a homosexual nor a hate generated by God

Psalm 45 is a love song to the king it states the King hates wrongdoing , it is also clear the king does not include polygamy. However again it says nothing about homosexuals, or God harboring any hate.

In summary neither tells you to hate others or their actions. Romans repeats Christ teaching which is just the opposite in summary it says to love your neighbor “Do not repay anyone evil for evil; be concerned for what is noble in the sight of all. If possible, on your part, live at peace with all. Beloved, do not look for revenge but leave room for the wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” Rather, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head.” Do not be conquered by evil but conquer evil with good…

At this point in the conversation, the fact that we are not supposed to “hate others” should be a no-brainer.

Hating the fact that people do things by which they destroy themselves should also be a no-brainer. And it’s precisely because we love and value them as human beings, that we detest the actions which threaten them, even though they are choosing to do them to themselves.

The fact that their actions are self-inflicted is a distinguishing factor, it’s true. In this case we have to be a bit more thoughtful and strategic, treating the person with respect whilst refraining from supporting or encouraging them in the self-destructive choices they are currently making.

 

[urban-hermit]

IMO, it is sad beyond words that you insist on linking hatred of sin to a hatred of the sinner. How and why you chose to do so is beyond me but I’m certain that there is nothing in this thread that could have led you to such a conclusion. Again, with others who have already stated this, I remind you that we are called to practice the corporal and spiritual works of mercy. In working with very young men as they approached death from fullblown AIDS, I was called to all of these practices (as well as the corporal works of mercy):

» Convert the sinner

» Instruct the ignorant

» Counsel the doubtful

» Comfort the sorrowful

» Bear wrongs patiently

» Forgive injuries

» Pray for the living and the dead

None of the men ever imagined I hated them.

THANK YOU !!!

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

IMO, it is sad beyond words that you insist on linking hatred of sin to a hatred of the sinner. How and why you chose to do so is beyond me but I’m certain that there is nothing in this thread that could have led you to such a conclusion. Again, with others who have already stated this, I remind you that we are called to practice the corporal and spiritual works of mercy. In working with very young men as they approached death from fullblown AIDS, I was called to all of these practices (as well as the corporal works of mercy):

» Convert the sinner

» Instruct the ignorant

» Counsel the doubtful

» Comfort the sorrowful

» Bear wrongs patiently

» Forgive injuries

» Pray for the living and the dead

None of the men ever imagined I hated them.

Thank you

 

[Texas_Roofer]

IMO, it is sad beyond words that you insist on linking hatred of sin to a hatred of the sinner. How and why you chose to do so is beyond me but I’m certain that there is nothing in this thread that could have led you to such a conclusion. ***Again, with others ***who have already stated this, I remind you that we are called to practice the corporal and spiritual works of mercy. In working with very young men as they approached death from fullblown AIDS, I was called to all of these practices (as well as the corporal works of mercy):

» Convert the sinner

» Instruct the ignorant

» Counsel the doubtful

» Comfort the sorrowful

» Bear wrongs patiently

» Forgive injuries

» Pray for the living and the dead

None of the men ever imagined I hated them.

At this point in the conversation, the fact that we are not supposed to “hate others” should be a no-brainer.

Hating the fact that people do things by which they destroy themselves should also be a no-brainer. And it’s precisely because we love and value them as human beings, that we detest the actions which threaten them, even though they are choosing to do them to themselves.

The fact that their actions are self-inflicted is a distinguishing factor, it’s true. In this case we have to be a bit more thoughtful and strategic, treating the person with respect whilst refraining from supporting or encouraging them in the self-destructive choices they are currently making.

THANK YOU !!!

Thank you

Sad is the numbers who continue actual acts of mercy appealing to the deaf ears. If you could look with an unbiased look not only would you see what others saw, you would also see the questions are mostly ignored or presented with extremely poor answers, followed by YOUR OPINION of my (and others) thought which has been terribly inaccurate. The actual issue is why a blanket acceptance of bias is accepted against any or all SSA people? The posts simply reflect the bias.

 

[catharina]

Sad is the numbers who continue actual acts of mercy appealing to the deaf ears. If you could look with an unbiased look not only would you see what others saw, you would also see the questions are mostly ignored or presented with extremely poor answers, followed by YOUR OPINION of my (and others) thought which has been terribly inaccurate. The actual issue is why a blanket acceptance of bias is accepted against any or all SSA people? The posts simply reflect the bias.

It’s sadder that folks who could/should know better are able to take to task the many who have overcome SSA and recommend doing likewise to all who share such desires. (I’ve known more than a few.) Would you embrace the habit of serial killing for serial killers or prostitution for prostitues? Sinful choices put souls at risk.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

It’s sadder that folks who could/should know better are able to take to task the many who have overcome SSA and recommend doing likewise to all who share such desires. (I’ve known more than a few.) Would you embrace the habit of ***serial killing ***for serial killers or ***prostitution ***for prostitues? Sinful choices put souls at risk.

Thank you for reminding us that SSA should be spoken with serial killers or prostitutes. Also I can tell you the medical profession claims you could not know “many who have overcome SSA” however you can know many who say such to alleviate the pain. But again you cannot know the pain they speak of.

 

[catharina]

Thank you for reminding us that SSA should be spoken with serial killers or prostitutes. Also I can tell you the medical profession claims you could not know “many who have overcome SSA” however you can know many who say such to alleviate the pain. But again you cannot know the pain they speak of.

Should I say it’s the same (as deadly) for those who receive Holy Communion unworthily as it promises to be for those who chose to live a homosexual lifestyle? That seems to be most horrible to me but you might not feel the same. As for who I’ve known, personally, I can’t speak to what the medical community might or might not say about them. We needn’t ever pretend that you and I know the same people.

 

[grainofsand]

Hate is such a powerful word. It is not an emotion.
Hate is the pure act of killing. This is something I learned from my religion teacher.

 

[Kevin42]

In that case, it would be good to hate sin. When we kill something, we take away the life it has on this earth. Wanting to remove sin from the earth is good. So while it’s a strong word, it seems proper.