Catholics, Orthodox, and Mary

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6 of 8 Assuption of Mary. [1Tm2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the **man Christ Jesus;]

[Rv12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a **woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:]

[1Tm2:5& Rv12:1, implies there are at least **two Human Beings bodily in heaven.] A human being is both body and soul (spirit). A body alone is a corps not a human being. A spirit or soul alone is a disembodied spirit and isn’t a human being.

[1Tm3:15 reveals a **man=human being body and soul Christ whom we know ascended body and soul into heaven. Rv12:1 reveals a woman=human being which would be body and soul. All other scriptures mention only spirits or souls of human beings in heaven.

[Rv6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the **souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:]

The following scriptures tell us of the souls (spirits) of human beings in heaven.

[Hb12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the **spirits of just men made perfect,]

Mary was assumed into heaven she didn’t ascend, as some mistakenly think. Only Christ ascended, of his own power into heaven. Mary being assumed, body and soul, by our Lord, into heaven is not unique. Scripture tells us Enoch and Elijah were taken bodily from the earth. Mary’s assumption is not explicit, but is implicit in scripture, just as the Trinity is implicit and not explicit.

[Rv11:19 And **the temple of God was opened in heaven and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament and there were lightnings and voices and thunderings and an earthquake and great hail. [Rv12:1 **And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.]

John first sees, in heaven, the ark then he describes it, as a woman clothed with the sun, moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars.]

Mary’s glorified body is described from head to feet, in heaven. We see, when the temple was opened in heaven, the woman, the Ark of the New Covenant, clothed with the sun, moon under her feet and a crown on her head. The Temple of God is the Church in heaven which is opened and John saw the Ark of the Covenant. After the lightnings, voices, thunder, earthquaks and hail. John saw a great wonder a woman. the woman of Gn3:15, Rev12:1 the one Christ always addresses as woman, Mary.
According to scripture Elijah and Enoch were taken up.

[2Kgs2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and **Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.]

[Hb11:5 **By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.]

jimmyakin.com/2015/03/yes-enoch-and-elijah-went-to-heaven.html

[MT 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52 And the **graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.]

I find it hard to believe these saints, who were bodily raised after Christ’s resurrection, would not have been raised with glorified bodies. And assumed into heaven, when Christ ascended. Would the Lord have raised them only to send their bodies back to the grave to decay again? There is no evidence of them living, dying and being buried again.
 
7 of 8 Mary Queen Mother, Gebirah=Hebrew. [Is9:6 For **unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.]

[1Kgs1:32 And king David said, Call me Zadok the priest, and Nathan the prophet, and Benaiah the son of Jehoiada. And they came before the king. 33 The king also said unto them, Take with you the servants of your lord, and cause Solomon my son to ride upon mine own mule, and bring him down to Gihon: 34 And let Zadok the priest and Nathan the prophet anoint him there king over Israel: and blow ye with the trumpet, and say, God save king Solomon. 35 Then ye shall come up after him, that he may come and sit upon my throne; for he shall be king in my stead: and I have appointed him to be ruler over Israel and over Judah.]

[1Chron29:23 Then **Solomon sat on the throne of the LORD as king instead of David his father, and prospered; and all Israel obeyed him. 24 And all the princes, and the mighty men, and all the sons likewise of king David, submitted themselves unto Solomon the king.]

[1Kgs2:19 Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And **the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a seat to be set for the king’s mother, and she sat on his right hand.] Soloman the son of David set a throne for his mother as did all those who were of the Davidic dynasty.

[Jer 52:1 **Zedikiah was twenty-one years old when he became king, and he reigned eleven years in Jerusalem. his mother’s name was Hamutal, daughter of Jeremiah of Libnah.]

[2 Kgs 21:1 **Manasseh was twelve years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem fifty-five years. his mother’s name was Hephzibah.]
[2 Kgs 8:26 Two and twenty years old was **Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother’s name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel.]

[Jer 44:9 9 Have you forgotten the wickedness committed by your fathers and by **the kings and queens of Judah and the wickedness committed by you and your wives in the land of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem?]

[Jer 13:18 Say to **the king and to the queen mother, Come down from your thrones, for your glorious crowns will fall from your heads. 19 The cities in the Negev will be shut up, and there will be no one to open them. All Judah will be carried into exile, carried completely away.] see also 2Kings25:1-26.

Despite the wickedness of some of the kings and queens. Jeremiah calls both the king and queen mother’s crowns glorious. No prophet ever spoke against the office of Queen Mother.

Mk10:40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.

[1Kgs8:20 And the Lord hath performed his word that he spake, and **I am risen up in the room of David my father, and sit on the throne of Israel, as the Lord promised, and have built an house for the name of the Lord God of Israel. 21 And b]I have set there a place for the ark, wherein is the covenant of the LORD, which he made with our fathers, when he brought them out of the land of Egypt.] Christ the king and Son of David sets a place for the Ark, Mary. His mother, queen mother, in the new regenerated spiritual kingdom of David, spiritual Israel. CONTINUED:
 
7 of 8 CONTINUED:

[Rev 11:19 And **the temple of God was opened in heaven and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament and there were lightnings and voices and thunderings and an earthquake and great hail. Rv12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven a woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet and upon her head a crown of twelve stars 2 And she being with child cried travailing in birth and pained to be delivered] The woman is a person=Mary, symbolic of the Church, Old and New Covenant people of God. Twelve stars, universal queen, queen of heaven and earth.

[Rv12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great **red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.] The red dragon is a person and symbolic of governments and orgainizations that persecute the Church throughout the ages.

[Rv12:5 And **she brought forth a man child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron and her child was caught up unto God and to his throne] To rule all nations, universal king, the child is a person=Christ. [Symbolic of all persons. JPII The Gospel of Life. Chapter 104.]

David didn’t elevate his mother, who was dead, to a throne. It was the son of David, King Solomon who did so. Solomon, the Son of David, instituted the office of queen mother. Solomon, the Son of David, who would build a house for the Lord (Temple). As God’s anointed king Soloman had complete authority to institute any office he saw fit for the kingdom. Christ, the Son of David, is now king who is building a habitation for God (Temple of living stones) and of His kingdom there will be no end.

If Mary’s son is the Son of David and King in David’s line. Then Mary is Gebirah=Queen Mother in the regenerated spiritual Kingdom of David, spiritual Israel.

[Lk1:31 And, behold, **thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the son of the highest: and **the the Lord God shall give unto him the throne, of his father David: 33 he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever, his kingdom will have no end.] Jesus is King in the line of David, Mary is Queen Mother. Queen Mother was an office in the Davidic Kingdom, form Solomon, the son of David, till the last earthly king in David’s line.]

[1Kgs8:18 And** the LORD said unto David my father**, Whereas it was in thine heart to build an house unto my name, thou didst well that it was in thine heart. 19 Nevertheless thou shalt not build the house, but thy son that shall **come forth our of thy loins, he shall build the house unto my name.]

[2Sam 7:13 He shall build a house for my name and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever.]

Christ the Son of David is building an everlasting universal spiritual kingdom. Christ builds with living stones. Regenerating the old earthly Davidic kingdom of God into the new spiritual Israel.

[Mt19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? 28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That **ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.]

[Lk22:28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations. 29 And ** I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; 30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 31 And the Lord said, Simon,Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.]
The kingdom, the Church, where we eat and drink at the Lord’s table, Mass. Peter is First Minister as he is given the keys to that kingdom. Peter, who’s faith Christ prayed would not fail is to strengthen his brethren and all the sheep and lambs, Jn21:15-17. That would be all the brethren including the other apostles. Peter is universal pastor and his faith is guaranteed by Christ. Christ the king, holds the keys by right, and delegates his authority, with those keys, to his First Minister, [Isa 22:19-22& Mt 16:13-19]. That Kingdom is for all people in all places and all times. Christ is universal, catholic, King and his mother is universal catholic, Gebirah=Queen Mother in the regenerated spiritual, universal=catholic, Davidic Kingdom.
 
8 of 8 Co-Redemtrics Mediatrix Advocate. With Mary’s yes to God salvation comes to all men who say yes to God. In giving birth to Christ, all grace comes thorough her, because Christ the source of all grace came through her. Mary could have said no. Yet she said, behold the handmaid of the Lord let it be done to me according to thy word. Mary co-operated (co-redeemed) freely, willingly and fully, without self interest, submitting totally to God. All the people of God are co-redeemers, mediators, and advocates, thru witnessing, correcting, praying or offering our sufferings in union with Christ, for those who are in need of grace. When we suffer, witness, pray or live for Christ we co-redeem, mediate and advocate (co=with Christ redeem).

God uses Mary to touch all humanity thru her mediation of intercession thereby co-redeeming in union with Christ. Our co-redeeming touches maybe one or two or even thousands, depending on the person and the grace God gives to our co-redeeming acts. If we do nothing with our gift we may lose our own soul as the man who didn’t even get interest on the talent given him by the Lord, Mt 25:24-30. This does not take away from Christ the one redeemer, mediator and advocate. Christ shares his mediatorship and all he has, and is, with his people. He shares his priesthood, kingship and being prophet with all his people. Christ makes us a royal priesthood, kings and prophets sending us to be witnesses thereby co=with Chirst redeemers.

Col 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions ** for the sake of his body that is the church** Just as Paul we too uniting with Christ our sufferings, joys, prayers and works become co-redeemers with Christ. Christ’s afflictions lack nothing but he wants us to share in his work, which is our priestly duty.]

[Rm15:16 for my being a servant of Jesus Christ to the nations, **acting as priest in the good news of God, that the offering up of the nations may become acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.] YLT Bible, public domain, biblegateway.com
1COR3:9 For we are labourers together with God ye are God’s husbandry ye are God’s building

[3JN1:8 We therefore ought to receive such that we might be **fellowhelpers to the truth.]

[Jms 5:19 Brethren if any of you do err from the truth and one convert him 20 Let him know that **he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death and shall hide a multitude of sins.]

[1Tm4:15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. 16 Take heed unto thyself, **and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.]

Mary is unique, as the OT ark of the covenant was unique and honored because of the special presents of God. Mary alone among all the billions of human beings was chosen by God to conceive in her womb, God made flesh. Mother of God is only one of the great things God has done to her and the reason All generation will call her blessed.

[Lk1:48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, **from henceforth ALL generations shall call me blessed. 49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.] Catholic’s, thru all generations, have called Mary blessed because of the great things, plural,

Are you one of the generations that call her blessed? Or of the generations that call her dead and forgotten except at Christmas. What great things (plural), would you say, God has done to Mary, can you name any?
 
Hi Pablope. I simply believe that Christ is our designated advocate according to I John 2:1:

“My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father–Jesus Christ, the Righteous One”.
Well, think about this: Mary (the Saints and our friends) mediates between us and Jesus, while Jesus is a mediator between us and the Father.
"Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” - John 14:5-7
Of course, we can all talk directly to God; but the idea of intercession is that our friends, the Saints, Mary and Jesus will all pray WITH us.

You don’t ask a friend to pray for you and sit idle, just waiting for the Graces to pile up 😛 You pray with them, and ask them to be with you, in prayer, in that moment.

And, as I said, Mary is just special in the sense that she is. She is not God, nor ‘god’, goddess or anything to that effect. She is just special for all that she represents. I think my favorite part from what jlhargus posted, is when he compares her to the Ark of the Convenant - we look at both with special respect.
 
Well, think about this: Mary (the Saints and our friends) mediates between us and Jesus, while Jesus is a mediator between us and the Father…
I understand what you are saying. I just don’t understand why it is necessary.
Of course, we can all talk directly to God; but the idea of intercession is that our friends, the Saints, Mary and Jesus will all pray WITH us
I understand intercessory prayer and practice it with my wife and closest Christian friends, but the difference is that I pray to God *in the name of *Jesus or I pray directly to Jesus because they are divine members of the Holy Trinity. I do not pray to the saints and Mary, who were humans who are now in heaven, although I acknowledge that God may allow them to see us and pray for us. Our friends we can see and hear, the Saints and Mary are in heaven and may be able to hear our prayers, but the Lord Jesus Christ, who is divine, promises that He will never leave us or forsake us. I value His intercession and advocacy above all others because he is part of the Godhead.
And, as I said, Mary is just special in the sense that she is. She is not God, nor ‘god’, goddess or anything to that effect. She is just special for all that she represents. I think my favorite part from what jlhargus posted, is when he compares her to the Ark of the Convenant - we look at both with special respect.
This is a concept I am willing to explore more. Jesus does represent the New Covenant so the analogy of Mary being the Ark of the New Covenant makes sense to me, although it is still a little foreign to view her that way – for me, at least,

Thanks again, NovusFidemm, jlhargus, and Pablope. I try to keep my spiritual eyes and ears open to God’s leading and I appreciate your help in helping better understand the Catholic perspective.
 
I would tend to agree with R.H. Benson- it’s a defensiveness by protestants who are seeking to find errors with the Church. Possibly to support the fact that they left the Church.

Interestingly, both Martin Luther and Calvin had great respect for Mary. Here is a link that lists a number of Martin Luther’s comments on Mary- they sound much more Catholic than anything like what today’s protestants believe.
I believe that you are correct. Protestant means Protest… Protest the Catholic Church. What I find interesting is that early Protestants didn’t. “have a problem” with Mary, the mother of God. I also find it amazing that Protestants use a Catholic book, the Bible to make their argument, based on verses taken out of context to continue a false Protestant myth regarding Catholics. … Argh… As I shake my head side to side.
 
Your welcome!

As to it being necessary… I am not sure it is. I mean, you have the extra option of having Mary and the Saints, but you are not going to be committing any sin by respectfully declining their help out of doubt for their role. Just because we “converted” doesn’t mean we stopped discerning - we still have doubts, we just have to work them out 😃

But I am suspicious to talk, as I rarely engage in prayer for other Saints 😊. I am a recent ‘convert’ (craddle catholic, ignored the Church during teenager/early-adulthood, back Rome sweet home!), and still trying to come to terms with all these Saintly brothers and sisters. I only ever prayed for St. Michael Archangel, other than Mary (as in, prayer for Saints). (I study some Saints whose messages I like - like St. Theresa Lisieux, or St. Thomas Aquinas - but I never thought of engaging them through prayer… might as well try!)

I still have some trouble with some traditions as well. The Church, for example, does allow the use of images; however, I have none except for two - gifts from my grandmother/godmother.

I do make use of images, sometimes, but they are more for evoking feeling than talking to people.

http://www.jeankeatonart.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/maryBabyJesus.jpg

For example, looking at an image of Mary holding baby Jesus, helps me in wondering how it must have felt to hold our Creator, our God Almighty, in her arms, so small… to look at Him, to see His smile so close. To embrace Him and kiss His face. To hear His laugh! To have Him look back at you with infinite love…

To blow raspberries in his belly, I dunno. 😛

It helps a bunch, seeing images portraying scenes (more than the Saint alone looking at you, at least), when I need to contemplate over some moments in the Bible. I have one of the moment Simeon first takes Jesus in his arms - the way the artist drew his face makes me imagine how thankful Simeon must have felt at that moment!

As I am no child anymore (imagination is a bit lacking now), I do fancy looking at scenes of the Bible… :bible1:

But, yeah (I derailed myself over here)… all the best for you and I’ll be keeping you in my prayers! ❤️
 
As to it being necessary… I am not sure it is. I mean, you have the extra option of having Mary and the Saints, but you are not going to be committing any sin by respectfully declining their help out of doubt for their role. Just because we “converted” doesn’t mean we stopped discerning - we still have doubts, we just have to work them out 😃
I think it would be a problem to deny the efficacy and meritoriousness of the intercession of saints. You would be denying the goodness of the Litany of the Saints. You would be at odds with prayers in the Mass, particularly the Extraordinary Form. You would be at odds with older professions of faith required for converts. You could certainly not make use of such a wonderful aid in private devotion. But to deny the goodness and usefulness of the intercession of the saints would be at odds with the Faith.
 
I think it would be a problem to deny the efficacy and meritoriousness of the intercession of saints. You would be denying the goodness of the Litany of the Saints. You would be at odds with prayers in the Mass, particularly the Extraordinary Form. You would be at odds with older professions of faith required for converts. You could certainly not make use of such a wonderful aid in private devotion. But to deny the goodness and usefulness of the intercession of the saints would be at odds with the Faith.
It is not **denying **the efficacy or the importance, but doubting it - no one returns or changes to a new Faith “suddenly” believing everything; it’s a process. 👍

As I said, I just don’t think God would be offended by our doubts, as we are still working on them. He already has to deal with our struggles, with our falls, with our mistakes. A doubt is, at least, an admittance that “this might be true, I’m just not sure yet”.

If we were to honestly say: “God, forgive me, for my faith is small” and “God, help me increase my faith”, I honestly don’t think He would berate us for that 😛

When I decide to come back, praying more Hail Marys than Our Fathers (such as happen with the Rosary) was just TOO weird. Do you think I should have forced myself to do something I actually thought was plain WRONG, or work it out little by little, asking for help from God?

I actually remember two prayers I did: one asking Jesus to help me have confidence in His mother, and the other to Mary, asking to help me learn to love her Son through her.

If we start forcing people to believe things rather than work them out on their heads, all those heterodox Catholics will stampede out of the Church… (and this is NOT a good thing!)
 
+JMJ+

If I may add to this discussion…
I understand what you are saying. I just don’t understand why it is necessary.
You will find that in the Catholic Church there are a lot of things God does that is strictly not necessary but He does so for His greater glory out of love for us. Like for example, you may have noticed here that somebody mentioned that “penal substitution” theology is not a Catholic view. In the Catholic view, it was not strictly necessary for Jesus to have died for our sins. Since Jesus is not only a perfect human but also God, just a p(name removed by moderator)rick would have been more than enough to save the whole human race. But, out of His love for us, the Trinity decided to use the Passion and Death of our Lord Jesus Christ to conquer sin and death.
I understand intercessory prayer and practice it with my wife and closest Christian friends, but the difference is that I pray to God *in the name of *Jesus or I pray directly to Jesus because they are divine members of the Holy Trinity. I do not pray to the saints and Mary, who were humans who are now in heaven, although I acknowledge that God may allow them to see us and pray for us. Our friends we can see and hear, the Saints and Mary are in heaven and may be able to hear our prayers, but the Lord Jesus Christ, who is divine, promises that He will never leave us or forsake us. I value His intercession and advocacy above all others because he is part of the Godhead.
So it is in this case. The more you study the Catholic faith, you will see that for us God is a jealous God (Exodus 20:5 and many other places in Scripture) but never is He a selfish one. The communion of saints is something He instituted out of the sheer joy of seeing us help out each other to love God and our neighbor. It is the culmination of the New Commandment. “I give you a new command: Love one another. Just as I have loved you, you must also love one another,” Jesus said in John 13:34. Why do you think God would give us a commandment that we cannot even follow while here on this earth but we can follow in Heaven? “The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective,” James 5:16 said. Who can be more righteous than the people who already are in Heaven? 🙂
This is a concept I am willing to explore more. Jesus does represent the New Covenant so the analogy of Mary being the Ark of the New Covenant makes sense to me, although it is still a little foreign to view her that way – for me, at least,
Watch this: youtube.com/watch?v=kUdYeYy3NQA. Don’t worry it is just 11 minutes but it is an excellent video 👍
Thanks again, NovusFidemm, jlhargus, and Pablope. I try to keep my spiritual eyes and ears open to God’s leading and I appreciate your help in helping better understand the Catholic perspective.
I agree, the people here have been excellent 👍
 
It is not **denying **the efficacy or the importance, but doubting it - no one returns or changes to a new Faith “suddenly” believing everything; it’s a process. 👍

As I said, I just don’t think God would be offended by our doubts, as we are still working on them. He already has to deal with our struggles, with our falls, with our mistakes. A doubt is, at least, an admittance that “this might be true, I’m just not sure yet”.

If we were to honestly say: “God, forgive me, for my faith is small” and “God, help me increase my faith”, I honestly don’t think He would berate us for that 😛

When I decide to come back, praying more Hail Marys than Our Fathers (such as happen with the Rosary) was just TOO weird. Do you think I should have forced myself to do something I actually thought was plain WRONG, or work it out little by little, asking for help from God?

I actually remember two prayers I did: one asking Jesus to help me have confidence in His mother, and the other to Mary, asking to help me learn to love her Son through her.

If we start forcing people to believe things rather than work them out on their heads, all those heterodox Catholics will stampede out of the Church… (and this is NOT a good thing!)
I appreciate everyone’s help in better understanding the Catholic understanding of Mary.
I especially can relate to your explanations and journey, NovusFidem. You are very helpful to me and I think I am starting to understand and put things in focus better now.
Much appreciated. :tiphat:
 
Mary was a huge obstacle to me at first, when I converted.

You don’t have to have any relationship with Mary or any Saint in order to be a Catholic. So please don’t let that hold you back.

I participated in Lent for two years prior to deciding to join RCIA, so I understand what you mean about that.

But I made a point to learn more about Mary, and found that my objections dissolved. She is not divine. She is not God. She is not part of the Trinity. She IS our Lord’s Mother, and our Mother (due to our Lord giving her to us when He was on the cross), and she is a Mother we can ask for help when we need it, someone we can ask to take our prayers to her Divine Son when we feel unworthy or don’t know what to say. Have you not ever asked another Christian to pray for you? Perhaps one you felt was more pious than you, and perhaps God might listen to that person more readily or be more disposed to answer that person’s prayers? That is Mary and the Saints for me.
Thank you very much, AKDee, for sharing the link to catholicbridge.com. I have found this website very helpful in explaining the role and place of Mary in a way that I can understand and relate to. 🙂

I may never arrive at the place where I have as close of a devotion to her as some Catholics do, but how Catholics view Mary is no longer the big obstacle for me that it used to be and I now understand why she deserves extra honor. After all, it is only scriptural that she be called “blessed”, and I have always highly regarded holy scripture.
 
NovusFidem…thank you for such a beautiful image of Mary.

Mary ‘magnifies the Lord’…and she does so every time we say a Hail Mary reflecting on a mystery of Christ’s life in the rosary…Mary magnifies the Lord and His will in our souls, she is the Short Ladder to heaven…we don’t go alone but with our Mother…she is our greatest advocate at death. I am sure she was with Martin Luther when he died.

Martin Luther was devoted to Mary all his life and he prayed the rosary.

Some how this anti Mary thing came out later…

Mary makes us a family.
 
I guess, as a Protestant, I don’t understand why we wouldn’t use a book that happened to be compiled by Catholics over the 1st 3-4 centuries. It’s the Word of God, inspired by the Holy Spirit and inerrant based on Christ who was instrumental in putting it together and the Holy Spirit’s guidance in writing it.

We are Christians and know it’s importance in our spiritual Relationship with Him and would be like fish out of water without it.

God bless!

Rita
 
Thank you for your answers. I’m sorry I have not been able to respond in a timely manner.
Many great responses, it clears up many questions.
 
Devotion to Mary came about around 200 AD…some think it was with St. James…She was called by the ancients, Maria Maris Stella…Mary Star of the Sea…Her intercession was experienced by early Christians in those days of persecution.

The first image of Mary and Baby Jesus is found inside the Catholic Catechism in the first part, it painted on the wall inside a catecomb, an ancient burial ground under the city of Rome.

Another interesting learn is how people developed the Liturgy of the Hours…they would pray with their arms outstretched facing east one Our Father at 9 am, then another of the same at Noon, and then the last Our Father at 5 pm, consecrating their day through prayer.
 
I guess, as a Protestant, I don’t understand why we wouldn’t use a book that happened to be compiled by Catholics over the 1st 3-4 centuries.
Well, for my part I don’t understand why we wouldn’t use it. (Maybe I should add “So we’re even”. ;))
 
In all due respect, I think Catholics have more than just a “relationship” with Mary, the Mother of Jesus. Examples of this include the following:

The Hail, Holy Queen prayer:
Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy! our life, our sweetness, and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve; to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley, of tears
. ***Turn, then, ]most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us; ***and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus; O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.
To me, that sounds like Mary is being given divine characteristics instead of being the godly young girl that she was who took a great risk to her own life to say “Yes” to God and give birth to out Lord and Savior and to love Him and raise Him and to be there for Him and not abandon Him at His crucifixion.

I even heard a Catholic priest quoted as saying that all prayers should be said “to Jesus THRU Mary”, which if true, I find very troublesome because it implies she is divine. I pray to God (divine) thru Christ (also divine). Where is the need to pray thru Mary (non-divine), although scripture says she was full of grace and blessed among women?

I even heard another priest on EWTN end a prayer to Jesus with, “In your mother’s name, Amen”. :confused:

While listening to Catholic radio the other day, I heard the announcer introduce a listener as “so and so who listens to us on ***Mediatrix Radio ***in such and such city”. Mediatrix Radio? :confused: The dickens, you say.

Editorial comment:
I honor Mary as full of grace and blessed among women and thank her for saying “Yes” to Christ, but praying to her or statues of her or going to parades with her image all over the place is taking it a little too far, in my view, and makes it easier for the faithful to blur the line between her and the Holy Trinity when she receives that kind of treatment.

This is an honest opinion not meant to demean Catholicism in any way and is probably the biggest remaining obstacle that keeps me from becoming Catholic although I like and agree with much of the rest of it, especially the sacraments, the ties to the early church, the Pope, and even the Eucharist, which I can assent to. I also like what Catholics do at Lent, which I think can help us grow closer to Christ.

Hi. Concerning “In your mother’s name, Amen” I don’t want to doubt your claim that an RC priest said that … but I wouldn’t worry too much: this is the first time in my whole life that I’ve heard of someone saying that.
 
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