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thedavidwilson
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Doesn’t this enable the exploitation of these people? They are leaving (or being forced out) becasue the upper classes of Mexico and other countries do not want them. When they arrive in the US, afert breaking out laws by entering illegally, they are exploited by being paid low wages. and living in the shadows.
A better use of this priest’s time would be to fight the corruption and racism in Latin America that is fueling this lawlessness and exploitation of these people.
BTW the US grant citizenship to about a million people LEGALLY into this country each year, and provides another 1 million temporary work visas. I have heard this amount of LEGAL immigration is great than all other countries combined provide.
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Rand_Al_Thor
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Helping people who need help is one thing, but helping people to break the law is another. I don’t agree with what the Church is doing in this case. I certainly understand that people come here looking for a better life, but there are ways to do that legally. If it is ok to ignore one law, then that means that people will start ignoring other laws too. As long as immigrants are required to legally enter this country, they need to go through those steps.
As thedavidwilson said, it is more important for them to try to help fix the conditions in their country rather than help them break the law here.
In Christ,
Rand
As thedavidwilson said, it is more important for them to try to help fix the conditions in their country rather than help them break the law here.
In Christ,
Rand
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Goth_Catholic
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Not all laws are righteous. We as Catholics petition to change the laws that allow abortion and gay marriage. In a sence, we are ignoring those laws.
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thedavidwilson
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Requiring people to enter into a country in a legal and orderly manner is not unjust. The right of a country to maintain and defend its sovereignty is a right in Natural Law.
Your analogy to abortion and gay marriage is false. We have the most generous immigrations policies in the world. We also have a group of people who are ignoring our laws and a group of people who are enabling this while at the same time enabling the exploitation of the people entering illegally into our country. I think you are on the wrong side of the issue.
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Goth_Catholic
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I side with Rome.
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Ridgerunner
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When I was a kid, my parents sponsored a Polish family that had been slave laborers in Germany during the war, but could no longer go back to Poland. In doing so, my parents took a chance, because they had to take personal financial responsibility for that family. As it turned out, it did cost them, though they were willing to do it.
A few years ago, a Catholic nun persuaded me to sponsor a Mexican family in a similar way. It was scary, because if they had gone on welfare, I was guaranteeing that I would pay for it. The father, who did not make enough money to sponsor his own family, promised he would never cause me to be charged with his family’s support, and he was as good as his word. Still, it was scary. There was nothing heroic about it. I felt it was a duty I owed my parents who, by then, had passed away, and it cost me nothing.
If these priests and all the people who are so supportive of immigrants would take the risk of sponsorship, I could admire them. But when they duck the responsibility, and wish it off on the taxpayers and low-end wage earners generally, I have no admiration for them at all.
A few years ago, a Catholic nun persuaded me to sponsor a Mexican family in a similar way. It was scary, because if they had gone on welfare, I was guaranteeing that I would pay for it. The father, who did not make enough money to sponsor his own family, promised he would never cause me to be charged with his family’s support, and he was as good as his word. Still, it was scary. There was nothing heroic about it. I felt it was a duty I owed my parents who, by then, had passed away, and it cost me nothing.
If these priests and all the people who are so supportive of immigrants would take the risk of sponsorship, I could admire them. But when they duck the responsibility, and wish it off on the taxpayers and low-end wage earners generally, I have no admiration for them at all.
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thedavidwilson
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I have not seen Rome comment on the matter. Rome has said that a person has the right to migrate if there is no other choice to support their families. I would argue this is not the case in Mexico. People are poor but not in dire straits. There is a LEGAL way for them to migrate (2 million opportunities a year) but these folks choose not to go this route.
What I have seen from the US Bishops is indecisive. On the one hand they state the above but also reinforce the fact that a country’s right to defend its sovereignty is part of natural law. Then they go on to call for comprehensive immigration reform all the while disregarding the rule of law.
BTW, as far as I know Rome has not ruled on this matter specifically, just given general guidance, so you are free to make up your own mind.
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Goth_Catholic
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Although I will clarify this. I belive it’s unfair to declare illegal immigration wrong simply because there is a law in place. A law does not make something wrong/right, just illegal/legal. I actually don’t have a stance, truely. I only belive in helping people.
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Dale_M
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Indeed, that view is the basis of civil disobedience. It is possible for laws to be unjust, and intentionally breaking such law, with the willingness to pay the penalty, has been the tactic of many religious persons in the U.S. over the past 50 years.
I posted this article because it didn’t seem the examples of what “Church” was doing was much out of the ordinary. My sense is that the article was primarily spin, especially the title - which seems an editorial statement. I dunno… the examples cited just didn’t seem to me to be indicative of vital support to illegal immigrants. But I guess my take on it was just an unusual reading.
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Steeltemplar
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You do have to ask what the consequences are of this law being broken. For instance, one of the reasons immigration is controlled is because we do not want foreign criminals entering the country. That is just one reason.
Immigration laws did not come into existence out of some dislike of immigrants. They have reason behind them.
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Turotts
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Will Catholics continue the BLASPHEMY against GOD by endorsing the theft against the People of the United States???Insisting that the people of the United States bear the burden of a Mexican government that will NOT support its own people.A goverment that recieves its visitors from its own southern borders with machine guns. This Priest and others like Him will definetely do time in purgatory for the crimes they are committing against the United States. These misdireected people think nothing of their crimes because they are not paying the price for their so called benevolent acts.Being benevolent with other peoples money is THEFT and should recieve the WRATH of the American people . It will be a good thing to see the wrogly imprisoned Border Guards set free and the real criminals such as this Priest and other like minded peole imprisoned and their cities Federal Funding dropped.Let’s see how far these ministers of hell can go when they have to do it with thier own assets.
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Sabda
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I have said this before on another forum and I will say it again. The best thing in the world that can happen is for those in Mexico to work for the betterment of their own country. By leaving all they are doing is running away from the problem. Stay and try to fix it. I realize it won’t be easy but running away and creating problems for someone else does not solve any problems. It just creates more.
I know here in Oklahoma our government seriously cracked down on illegal immigrants with a new law. I really feel for the those in Mexico but I can not support their willingness to break laws that are there for a just reason.
BTW, I seem to recall the Pope making some statement not to long ago about how immigrants MUST respect the laws of the country that they are in. Anyone know where that statement is? Considering this is a “news” source from Yahoo, I’ll take there statement about “being sanctioned by the Vatican” with a grain of salt.
Interesting how they lump all of us Catholics together by saying the Church is doing this. Ummm, no this is being done by individual Catholics, this is not an official Church thing.
I know here in Oklahoma our government seriously cracked down on illegal immigrants with a new law. I really feel for the those in Mexico but I can not support their willingness to break laws that are there for a just reason.
BTW, I seem to recall the Pope making some statement not to long ago about how immigrants MUST respect the laws of the country that they are in. Anyone know where that statement is? Considering this is a “news” source from Yahoo, I’ll take there statement about “being sanctioned by the Vatican” with a grain of salt.
Interesting how they lump all of us Catholics together by saying the Church is doing this. Ummm, no this is being done by individual Catholics, this is not an official Church thing.
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MiddleBear
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What I have seen from the US Bishops is indecisive…
That is typical of the US Bishops conference…for example, the Bishops continue to give a wink to pro- abortion self identified Catholic politicians.
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thedavidwilson
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God bless (and save) America…
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Dale_M
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Yes, that was the impression I got from the article and why I posted it.
Yahoo is simply a news aggregator, it is a conduit. The reliability of the article would depend on who wrote it. I poked around the Vatican’s website, but didn’t find it… I always seem to have trouble finding what I want there.
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seekerz
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It’s interesting to see people quote numbers about legal immigration. Perhaps it would do us well to keep in mind that a large percentage of illegal immigrants would not qualify for those visas.
While I agree that immigration into a country is ideally orderly and legal, it seems that some of the fears about immigration are excessive and may turn out to be as ill-founded as those about overpopulation.
There is enough space and resources in the world for all of God’s creatures to have more than enough. Problem is, sometimes we fail to rely on God’s providence.
While I agree that immigration into a country is ideally orderly and legal, it seems that some of the fears about immigration are excessive and may turn out to be as ill-founded as those about overpopulation.
There is enough space and resources in the world for all of God’s creatures to have more than enough. Problem is, sometimes we fail to rely on God’s providence.
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zjl56
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In a way it is not just something nice to do, but it is our duty to accept as many immigrants as we can from Mexico. NAFTA and other agreements have had good intentions, but we haven’t kept up our part. By refusing to eliminate subsidies we have created a market in which many Mexicans could not possibly compete against. Both the Mexican and U.S government are responsible, and we have the means to rectify this problem. So if it one must break a law or two to help a migrant, then so be it.
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consumedconvert
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I bet it’s easier to navigate if you see it in Italian. Vatican.va is the one site that makes me feel illiterate.. I poked around the Vatican’s website, but didn’t find it… I always seem to have trouble finding what I want there.
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m134e5
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I wouldn’t go so far as to call it blasphemy against God. It’s wrong, no doubt- but the United States isn’t God or the Church. I don’t think a crime against it necessarily warrants hell or purgatory any more than a crime against any other country. Whether people like it or not, the US isn’t the only country in the world, and shouldn’t expect to be treated like it is- citizens of other countries are every bit as proud of their country as we are of ours. I have seen some shocking things on this board at times- but I haven’t seen anyone who would make such hateful comments about validly ordained priests- even the atheists and protestants here who don’t believe in the priesthood at all have more respect than to call them “ministers of hell”.
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