Catholics! Please get in here!

[FCEGM]

Not only do they believe its an angel, but they believe that Jesus Christ is human form of Michael, the Archangel, which is an interesting point of view being that the Bible states that Jesus existed in the beginning… who would that be?? hmmmm. MICHAEL the archangel.

There could be some credence to that depending on how you view the Bible scriptures, however, I have had such a hard time believing that Jesus is Michael, the Archangel. Some part of me just can’t really believe it since in my mind, they are two completely separate entities.

But, yeah… you are right to a point. They still do see him as Christ, though.

Christ, but not Christ in His fullness, and thus they cannot see the fullness of His redemptive action.

This website should be of help to you:

catholicxjw.com/

 

[neophyte]

Well, i know I’m not an anomaly. lol. there are many people that go off on these tangents…

Tangents are funny things. You can be exploring the wilderness somewhere and stumble upon a tiny crack in a cliff wall, and if you wedge your way into it and look around you might find that it opens up into vast caverns of unspeakable beauty that seem to go on forever.

My path to the Catholic Church was like that, except I found out that I’d been in a drab spiritual cave my entire life and the crack was an exit into the outside world.

 

[inkaneer]

I need someone to correct me and straighten me out if I am misunderstanding any of this.

First of all, I have been raised Catholic. I’m actually getting married in February next year in the Catholic church.

Now, I have done a lot of research and read the Bible. There are quite a bit of concerns I have with the Catholic church. Many have to do with the Apocrypha, the Dogma, Archangels, the Trinity, Praying to Saints.

However, for the purpose of being simple, I only will bring forth two concerns that I have. In my opinion, the TRUE church of God should be perfect and consistent with the Bible. Therefore, if these two issues contradict the Bible, then surely I should have my answer about whether or not to follow the Catholic church or not. I will site the verse where it says it is forbidden.

I would like for a fellow Catholic to please tell me why the Catholic church still does these two things and please tell me if I’m misunderstanding this or not.

1. Statues in the Catholic church are explicitly forbidden by the teachings in the Bible, yet Catholic churches and followers still have tons of statues in the church and in homes. Exodus 20:4-5 You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God,
2. Praying the rosary is a perfect example of praying in vain. This is said to be forbidden. Jesus tells us not to pray in vain. Matthew 6:7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

Regarding statues. If a picture is worth a thousand words how much is a statue worth? A very pertinent question to the subject. Bear in mind that after the fall of the Roman Empire Western Europe entered the Dark Ages, so called because the lamp of civilization was almost extinquished. Unlike his Roman counterpart of the 1st through the fifth centuries, the peasant serf of the 6th thru 12th centuries was totally illiterate. Communication in print form was nonexistant. So how does one convey the gospel under such circumstances? Certainly not by telling everyone to read a bible that no one had [the printing press was several centuries into the future] and even if they did have a ible they could not read it anyway. The Gospel was conveyed the way the Bible says it should be. It was preached. In addition the gospel was conveyed in the form of art. Paintings, statues, theatrical plays [did you ever hear of morality plays] all convey the gospel. The statues of saints convey the stories of those saints and their faith. Is there any sane person out there who actually believes that Catholic actually pray to an alabaster, wood, stone or whatever statue thinking that statue is actually God or that statue has some power or authority to act on such prayer. Are there people who are that utterly stupid? If so, then its a good thing that God designed our breathing to be controlled by involuntary muscles because these people would probably be too stupid to breathe.

As for your second issue that of praying in vain. You cite the rosary as a perfect example. What makes the rosary praying in vain? Is it the repetition of prayers? Then tell me what do you think of Jesus praying in vain? Oh yes He did! Look in your Bible it iks there. The passage reads:

“40 And he came to the disciples and found them sleeping; and he said to Peter, “So, could you not watch with me one hour? 41 Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” 42 Again, for the second time, he went away and prayed, “My Father, if this cannot pass unless I drink it, thy will be done.” 43 And again he came and found them sleeping, for their eyes were heavy. 44 So, leaving them again, he went away and prayed for the third time, saying the same words.” [Mt 26:40-44] [RSV]

Notice verse 44, “44 So, leaving them again, he went away and **prayed for the third time, saying the same words.” **

Repeating prayers is not praying in vain. The rosary is not praying in vain. NOT if you are praying the rosary correctly and meditating on the words. But if you are just mouthing words then you are doing nothing more than a baby babbling away and your words are in vain. Big difference there.

 

[bjmad]

Catholic Bro!! You are where I use to be years ago. Forums like this really put things in perspective for me and answered so many of my questions. Plus, many websites that are mentioned here as well helped me to understand. It was almost like a light bulb went on for me and I understood. It took a lot of reading and searching for the right answer that clarified it for me. Some people here have that gift to define something so clearly and then click, the light goes on. Sometimes it took me to read things several times. In fact, what really kicked me in the pants was when I attended Steubenville North in Minnesota a few years ago that the flame really started to burn white hot and I jumped into the Catholic Faith and started reading books (to include Catholicism for Dummies). Very good book by the way. I watch videos, listen to mp3s, search sites and bought the Faith Database which has a large amount of information. I cannot say I didn’t get discouraged at times but by the grace of God I pushed on and continue to learn about the Catholic Church. Even though my knowledge has grown tremendously, there is so much more to learn. Especially during the season of Lent. I feel the devil trying to get me to step back as I move forward but I must keep my eyes on Jesus so I don’t start to sink into the water like Peter had when he began to doubt. I am a sinner. I am working toward deepening my faith in Christ every day. Don’t give up. Don’t take your eyes off the Truth. The Catholic Church is without a doubt, the Church Jesus Christ started. The more you research, the clearer things will become. Continue to be open minded and pray, pray, pray. You will be rewarded.

 

[CB_Catholic]

You know, the Christian world is and has been overwhelmingly Catholic for 2000 years (and I am including our Orthodox brethern here, also, as they are part of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and have been essential to the development of Christianity). We’ve spent 2000 years listening to the Holy Spirit and figuring these things out. We compiled the Canon of Scripture and faithfully preserved it over the centuries. The major Christian doctrines came from the Catholic Church. Some of the Church Fathers sat at the feet of the Apostles themselves and passed on what they learned directly from them. Our Popes can trace their lineage directly to the Apostle Peter himself. We spread the Gospel throughout the world, long before Martin Luther came on the scene. The authority of the Church was established by Christ Himself.

Why would we even consider that these fundamentalists and anti-Catholics know more than us? Most of them have no clue about these things. We’ve got it backwards–they’re in the minority. They need to be defending their position to us. Not the other way around.

 

[Pitcharan]

I need someone to correct me and straighten me out if I am misunderstanding any of this. …I would like for a fellow Catholic to please tell me why the Catholic church still does these two things and please tell me if I’m misunderstanding this or not.

1. Statues in the Catholic church are explicitly forbidden by the teachings in the Bible, yet Catholic churches and followers still have tons of statues in the church and in homes. Exodus 20:4-5 You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God,
2. Praying the rosary is a perfect example of praying in vain. This is said to be forbidden. Jesus tells us not to pray in vain. Matthew 6:7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

I can only share my own learnings and hope they are helpful to you:
I too went thro’ the same feelings that you are experiecing and these are my learnings:

1. An instruction or teaching invariably has a prevailing context.
2. Understandng the context helps appreciating and loving the purpose of a teaching
3. Applicability of a teaching after the context is changed, needs deeper understanding of it’s essence.
4. Doubts that arise out of genuine quest for truth, are responded by truth itself with crystal clarity.
5. Doubts born of proud curiosity reinforce confusion and misunderstanding in us.

Regards
Pitcharan