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Ferde_Rombola
Guest
Mitt Romney wants to be President of the United States.
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MelanieAnne
Guest
He may want to be, but I don’t think there’s any chance that he will ever succeed.
I don’t believe that Romney’s political aspirations explain why Mormons have reversed course and are now trying to be accepted as “mainstream” Christians. There’s a broad consensus among many Christian groups that Mormons do not meet the definition of Christian, and those reasons also explain why Mormon baptisms are not considered valid.
Mormons started out by setting themselves apart from Christianity. Now they want to be included. What changed? It can’t just be Mitt Romney.
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Snowy
Guest
I will say again that Mormons are deservedly known for being honest, hard working and reliable people who protect their families (with plenty of exceptions, needless to say). If someone needs to believe in flying pigs in order to be a good person, they can go right ahead as far as I’m concerned; but if they try to sell me that Jesus Christ has anything to do with their flying pigs, I cannot let that fly.
The best I can say about Mr. Joseph Smith is that he probably believed that he was a prophet, just like there’s people who truly believe they are Napoleon.
The best I can say about Mr. Joseph Smith is that he probably believed that he was a prophet, just like there’s people who truly believe they are Napoleon.
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k0nod541
Guest
Thank you for your comments. On the question of Apostolic Succession, I doubt that there is any argument to its negative that you have not already heard! Personally, I chose to study early Christian history to the point that I was convinced in my own mind. There was, in my studies, sufficient evidence that the concept of succession was a late development, probably as late as 200 AD. I don’t ask you to necessarily agree with me on the point, however. Joseph Smith never asked his disciples to believe a concept merely because he claimed something to be so. On the contrary, his attitude was that each person should study out the issues, determining for themselves the validity of a point based on serious study and sincere prayer.
As to your comment that Joseph Smith “exploited” his followers, I can only suggest that a careful study of his life from reliable historical sources would cast a great deal of doubt on your aspersion. For example, to merely suggest that a drunken mob tarred and feathered Joseph Smith over property is a considerable jump from the circumstances historically surrounding the misdeed. By the same token, to say Smith “seduced” someone is a far stretch of the facts. Was it Joseph Smith who had a “messy personal life,” or was the story of his life made “messy” by those who opposed him? A careful study from reliable sources can answer the question.
Thank you for your consideration. I would be happy to discuss any specific point with you.
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paul_c
Guest
I don’t know how you came up with the idea that the Apostolic Succession only begain in 200 AD. In Acts1:15-26, Peter describes Apostolic succession in detail…This happened even before Pentacost… Here’s the passage:
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During those days Peter stood up in the midst of the brothers (there was a group of about one hundred and twenty persons in the one place). He said,
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“My brothers, the scripture had to be fulfilled which the holy Spirit spoke beforehand through the mouth of David, concerning Judas, who was the guide for those who arrested Jesus.
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He was numbered among us and was allotted a share in this ministry.
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He bought a parcel of land with the wages of his iniquity, and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle, and all his insides spilled out.
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This became known to everyone who lived in Jerusalem, so that the parcel of land was called in their language ‘Akeldama,’ that is, Field of Blood.
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For it is written in the Book of Psalms: ‘Let his encampment become desolate, and may no one dwell in it.’ And: ‘May another take his office.’
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Therefore, it is necessary that one of the men who accompanied us the whole time the Lord Jesus came and went among us,
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beginning from the baptism of John until the day on which he was taken up from us, become with us a witness to his resurrection.”
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So they proposed two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also known as Justus, and Matthias.
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Then they prayed, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen
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to take the place in this apostolic ministry from which Judas turned away to go to his own place.”
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Then they gave lots to them, and the lot fell upon Matthias, and he was counted with the eleven apostles.
So to say that Apostolic succession wasn’t in place and documented I think is incorrect.
What do you consider a reliable source? I’d be happy to read the source of your choice. In fact, I would be interest in the Mormon view of his life. Not to say that this is a reliable source either. The Mormon’s have a vested interest in this as well.
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thecourt
Guest
As of a member of the LDS Church, I am grateful for the forums and the opinions expressed.
Speaking for myself, I read a number of subjects for the reasoning only known to me.
Happy holidays regardless of faith journey or none at all.
Speaking for myself, I read a number of subjects for the reasoning only known to me.
Happy holidays regardless of faith journey or none at all.
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mfbukowski
Guest
My honest advice is that it is better to use your time elsewhere. I am tying up some lose ends, and then I am going to give up. It is a waste of time. There is no honest dialogue here, just name calling and baseless accusations.
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mfbukowski
Guest
Then why did you present an anti-mormon site as the Mormon church site?Speaking only for myself, I have never read any “anti-Mormon” literature in my life and do not intend to start. I have many friends and acquaintances that are Mormons and have had some of these friendships since childhood. In connection with those friends and acquaintances I have had the opportunity to become familiar with Mormon theology and teachings. I’ve also read the Book of Mormon cover to cover. But no “anti-Mormon” literature.
I also have a brain and can recognize nonsense when I see it.
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cazayoux
Guest
I can see who the ‘name calling and baseless accusations’ are coming from.
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mfbukowski
Guest
I apologize to Melanie ann
It was not you who did this, I had you confused with someone else.
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Snowy
Guest
If you visit Josephsmith.net “the official web site on Joseph Smith by the LDS Church” and click on “life of the prophet”, don’t expect anything resembling a biography. Don’t bother looking for anything resembling a biography anywhere else on that site either.
Some people get their spiritual kicks by believing that they are the chosen minority persecuted for their true zeal.
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MelanieAnne
Guest
I didn’t do that. You have obviously confused me with someone else. I’ve never give any citations for Mormon information, to you or to anyone.
This is interesting and gives some insight into your other posts.
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mfbukowski
Guest
Did you not see post 298 above?
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mfbukowski
Guest
You know I think I really need to not post here any more. I don’t like what it is doing to me. I am really beginning to lose any respect I ever had for Catholics which is not right. Maybe I will see you guys later.
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Kristofer88
Guest
My question is, and correct me if I’m wrong in this.
How can people who lives a millenia and more after Jesus, even question the teachings of Catholicism when the only people who have credibility are Catholics and Orthodox?
Also, whats the point in worshiping God if what only a certian number of people go to heaven? Not sure if thats the morman belief but that ones just amazing, no one even thinks that lets say 200,000 are chosen, what are the odds those 200,000 have already been chosen since we have had more people die already then are alive today. If that was the faith I had I would really just become athiest, that God has no love, compassion, he only favors and plays games with his own creations, predestination. Whichever faith that is above, jahova (if thats diffeent then morman) is just rediculous.
Sorry for being random, or if that wasn’t what Mormans believe, but I can’t remember who does, and it just really irks me. lol
How can people who lives a millenia and more after Jesus, even question the teachings of Catholicism when the only people who have credibility are Catholics and Orthodox?
Also, whats the point in worshiping God if what only a certian number of people go to heaven? Not sure if thats the morman belief but that ones just amazing, no one even thinks that lets say 200,000 are chosen, what are the odds those 200,000 have already been chosen since we have had more people die already then are alive today. If that was the faith I had I would really just become athiest, that God has no love, compassion, he only favors and plays games with his own creations, predestination. Whichever faith that is above, jahova (if thats diffeent then morman) is just rediculous.
Sorry for being random, or if that wasn’t what Mormans believe, but I can’t remember who does, and it just really irks me. lol
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k0nod541
Guest
Kristofer: I’m afraid you are a little confused. I think you are referring to the Jehovah’s Witnesse’s belief about 144,000 going to heaven. This stems from a reference in Revelations, but misapplied, in my opinion. And, quite to the contrary, LDS belief says that all mankind may be saved by faith and obedience to Jesus Christ - even those who have never received baptism during this mortal life. I cannot imagine a God who would condemn someone who merely has not heard of Jesus Christ, can you?
You mention the “credibility (of) Catholics and Orthodox.” I respect your opinion on that issue, but remind you that there have been serious thinkers and scholars over the years who have reasonable disagreements with your theology. There is, after all, a reason for the term “Holy Roman.”
Strictly tongue-in-cheek, someone once said, “Going to hell in a crowd doesn’t cool it off any.”
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MelanieAnne
Guest
After I posted my reply, yes I did.
It doesn’t take away the insight into your posts however.
Stephen168
New member
From the tone of 90% of all your posts including your first one, I truly believe you have NEVER had any respect for Catholics.
I believe your testimony may be shaken but not your disrespect for Catholicism.
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paul_c
Guest
MF Bukoswki,
Honestly, I agree that the tone on these threads could be improved on both sides. However, you need to recognize how your agenda is percieved. You are an ex-Catholic, selling the Mormon religion on a Catholic website that caters to Apologists. You are clearly not here to learn about what Catholicism has to offer, because you have already rejected that. Instead, you are proselytizing, subtly to be sure, but proselytizing none the less. We all understand that this is a hallmark of Mormonism, with each Mormon having this responsibility so we don’t hold that against you. The problem is when we ask you probing and difficult questions about Mormon positions, you ignore them, change the subject, or cry foul. This has led to frustration. Ultimately, I think your expectations about what to expect on this website are off. You will find dozens of knowledgable Catholics ready to defend the Catholic position, so the opportunities for conversion are very slim, particularly to Mormonism. I’m sure this has led to frustration on your part as well.
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Snowy
Guest
Don’t worry about finding me in a Mormon forum proselytizing like a pompous forgiver-of-sins.
Go do your missionary work door-to-door like the rest of your brothers!
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