Catholics regard Muhammad as a prophet??

[dzheremi]

Planten, enough already. I am a generally tolerant person, but insulting saints and insinuating that there is something to be doubted about Jesus simply because Satan TRIED to tempt Him (tried and failed, I should say!) is going too far. Remember that you are on a Catholic board, and then please try to phrase your disagreements accordingly.

I don’t want to read any more posts written in an accusatory, triumphalist manner about how we all fall pray to the deeds of Satan (because it’s “so easy” for that to happen in Christianity specifically, right?). So do you, so does everyone when they sin. To try to discredit our religion in this way makes you look like a shameless hypocrite. Islam is no better than any other religion with regard to the human weaknesses of its followers.

I have thankfully in my time here only used the “report post” button one time ever, for a post that was absolutely beyond the pale of what could be reasonably tolerated on the grounds of free speech. If I have to use it again because you cannot tell the difference between disagreeing with individual Christians and maligning Jesus Christ (something which YOUR religion claims to disallow), I will.

 

[planten]

**dzhereme, you seem to get annoyed only when something comes to you. But you close your eyes to every one abusing Muhammad. Could you advise and control those abusive minds who cannot be Catholics. I will not believe that they are Catholics.

Hypothesis had posted:
St. Francis of Assisi: “We have come to preach faith in Jesus Christ to you, that you will renounce Mohammad, that wicked slave of the devil, and obtain everlasting life like us.”

**

Did you notice it? Some one is saying slave of the devil. Is that tolerable to you?. If it is then I tell you that whoever said those words was also a devil. Nothing less than a devil. Or it was false report attributed to one of the saints. I am sure a saint will never say those bad words.

So it was the devil talking. And you should cover all posts to see what people are doing here. Jesus or his disciples never said anything against Muhammad. You should also not do that. If you do it as a habit then be ready to listen to likewise remarks about your dear ones.

It is a simple sensible rule: Don’t do to others that you do not like to be done to yourself.

I feel that I have learnt enough on this forum about christianity that it is only a tool or platform to abuse Muhammad. there is nothing good in any one here. Do what you like. But be honest and sensible. Already most of your beliefs have been proved wrong. Go look after your wrong belief and help every one. Leave Muhammad alone. Try to clear the allegations being levelled against your faith. That will be more useful.

If your friends will not abuse any one, I will also not do it. Let there be no abuse at all. Try for that, will be good for you.

If you try to report as you have threatened me then i am sure that you have admitted defeat and that you had no truth with you. I am not any antagonist. You can see that I never attempted or started any abuse first. I wish you success in condemning all abusers. Don’t talk about our (Muslims) faith that they love Jesus and Mary. Your friends should not take wrong advantage of those good things. They should then not abuse Muhammad in return.

If we are in any problem then we may not abuse Jesus or your saints but we will abuse you and your friends. Will you tolerate that? Tell me.

 

[dzheremi]

(edited reply; the full reply to every point wouldn’t fit)

Jesus or his disciples never said anything against Muhammad. You should also not do that. If you do it as a habit then be ready to listen to likewis eremarks about your dear ones.

None of this makes any sense. Jesus DID warn us against false prophets who would come after him, and we believe Muhammad is one such false prophet. Muhammad’s name is not mentioned specifically because He was not alive during the time of Our Lord’s earthly ministry.

It is a simple sensible rule: Don’t do to others that you do not like to be done to you.

I agree.

I feel that I have learnt enough on this forum about christianity that it is only a tool or platform to abuse Muhammad.

If you only focus on certain threads or posts on this forum, you might come away with that impression. But this forum is not Christianity itself, and we have many non-Christians here. I should also mention that I personally have been a Christian for my entire life in one way or another, even before I had ever heard of anyone named “Muhammad” or anything called “Islam”. This was the case for ~600 years, when there was a world full of Christians, and no Muhammad or Islam. Muhammad is the start of ISLAMIC history - not Christian history. Christianity is absolutely not a tool to abuse Muhammad. Muhammad has nothing to do with Christianity but what he himself did to destroy it in the places where it once flourished (“Islamic” lands today that were once Christian).

there is nothing good in any one here.

Aw, now I don’t think that’s true. There is good in everyone. Really, everyone! There is good in you too, even if I will never agree with your religion or your views on my religion.

Do what you like. But be honest and sensible. Already most of your beliefs have been proved wrong. Go look after your wrong belief and help every one. Leave Muhammad alone. Try to clear the allegations being levelled agianst your faith. That will be more useful.

I am being honest and sensible to the best of my ability when I tell you that I have not read a single allegation from you regarding Christianity that is even falsifiable, much less “proof” of anything. That is how faith ultimately works: You believe in one thing, I believe in another. Maybe we agree, or maybe we don’t. That’s all. That’s as good as we can do in this life.

If you friends will not abuse any one, I will also not do it. Let there be no abuse at all. Try for that, will be good for you.

I don’t know what this means. What friends? I would like to think that we are all friends here. I have had just as much if not more enlightening conversation with Sister Amy or menj0wv as I have had with any Catholic. I do not think “abuse” is really the goal for most people here, no matter what their religion is.

If you try to report as youhave threatened me then i am sure that you have admitted defeat and that you had no truth with you. I am not any antagonist.

Like I said, I really don’t like even having to think about doing that, but I don’t think that what St. Francis of Asisi or anyone else says should lead to any defamation of Christ. Ever. I feel the same when people here who are Catholic post things about “Allah: the Pagan Moon God” or whatever. What can be done? Try to talk to those who might listen so that maybe they’ll think about what they post. I thought you might listen, so I told you that I will not put up with abuse of Christ for any reason.

Don’t talk about our (Muslims) faith that they love Jesus and Mary. Your friends should not take wrong advantage of those good things. They should then not abuse Muhammad in return.

Why not? It is a principle of your faith, is it not? This is no different than when you tell us that Jesus said a certain thing. If you are wrong in your interpretation, we tell you so. If I am wrong in believing that Islam loves Jesus and Mary, you should tell me so that I can get the truth about what Muslims really believe.

If we are in any problem then we may not abuse Jesus or your saints but we will abuse you and your friends. Will you tolerate that? Tell me.

Actually, yes. You may abuse me instead of Christ and the saints, if that is what will make you feel better and get you to stop your anti-Christian talk. It is better that I feel abused than that you blaspheme against Our Lord. I am not a fan of abuse, but it is better to be abused for protecting your faith in God than for any other reason, isn’t it? Isn’t that what you feel like you are doing here? Taking abuse for the good of your faith?

 

[Hypothesis]

So far he is the only one admitting that talking with the muslims has so far been pretty futile.

Vatican’s response to muslims request for peace - basically said that the muslims are not serious about it

Then I found this article interesting about what is coming out of the Vatican. La Civilta Cattolica

But, I do think that there are mixed messages coming out from the Vatican which do not help the overall situation. The kissing of the koran made me want to puke. The fact that no one in a role of leadership is bothering to find out that the muslim’s claim that they are a part of the Judeo-Christian religions is just hogwash also amazes me. It doesn’t take too much research to find that fact out.

But, we also have to remember that there are a lot of people who would have a lot of problems if the Pope took too much of a drastic action - although this action will need to be taken at some time. The poor behavior of muslims will be exhibited as it always is whenever they don’t get their way. Look at the people who died over the cartoons - people who had nothing to do with them. And so what if someone did have something to do with cartoons - or a movie - or whatever - that is their right to do and say such things. As far as I am concerned islam needs to be scrutinized.

by their going through the UN to shut people up is just amazing that anyone actually would listen to the UN when such a resolution is passed. Especially considering all the abuse that muslims dish out against the Jews, or Christians, or anyone not a ‘believer’. They conveniently don’t sign any agreement when it comes to stopping slavery, or human rights abuses, or abuse against women, etc. Nope - and no one says anything about that - especially the UN!

At least Geert Wilder’s case was dropped because they said that ‘bashing islam is not bashing muslims’.

It is nice to know that someone else wanted to puke when they saw such a disgrace, I thought I was the only catholic around that got sick. Most of them I talked to were quick to defend his every heretical action.

 

[R_not]

It is nice to know that someone else wanted to puke when they saw such a disgrace, I thought I was the only catholic around that got sick. Most of them I talked to were quick to defend his every heretical action.

I think it was only the Catholics that are aware of what that book is all about. Most don’t bother either because they chose not to do any research into it, or are intimidated because they think it is a sin or against being a Catholic.

 

[imasinner]

Yes, it is also possible that Muhammad is a prophet of God and Jesus is not god or son of god.

Who told you Mohammad was a prophet? Who told Mohammad Christians believe in three gods? Your belief derives from Mohammad’s ignorance of what Christians actually believed and that is why there is not the remotest posibility that he was a true prophet. Islam may be able to overlook the fact that their prophet is an UNREPENTANT paedophile, rapist and mass-murderer (just to mention a few of his virtues) however Christianity according to their Scriptures (not to mention MORALLY) cannot consider him a prophet.

Christians believe in ONE God. So rest assured we are not automatically doomed to hell as you believe. He is risen. It really is that simple. Let yourself be open to the truth and pray God will give you the grace to accept Jesus for who He IS and not who Mohammad thought He was. Peace and blessings.

 

[sedonaman]

Who told you Mohammad was a prophet? Who told Mohammad Christians believe in three gods?..

 

[planten]

Who told you Mohammad was a prophet? Who told Mohammad Christians believe in three gods? Your belief derives from Mohammad’s ignorance of what Christians actually believed and that is why there is not the remotest posibility that he was a true prophet. Islam may be able to overlook the fact that their prophet is an UNREPENTANT paedophile, rapist and mass-murderer (just to mention a few of his virtues) however Christianity according to their Scriptures (not to mention MORALLY) cannot consider him a prophet.

More abuse of the prophet Muhammad from a fanatic Catholic…

Christians believe in ONE God. So rest assured we are not automatically doomed to hell as you believe. He is risen. It really is that simple. Let yourself be open to the truth and pray God will give you the grace to accept Jesus for who He IS and not who Mohammad thought He was. Peace and blessings.

That is what you are saying? But that is not the belief of the Church.Tell me what your other three gods are doing with the One God? You have three gods. You know it. Then it would not be wise of you to say that you believe in One God. No one will believe you.

You are in facts pagan worshipping three gods. But due to the pressure from the Jews and the Mulsims you have to revert to One God also. that is a fallacy in your theology. Please note it. A basic fallacy. You please keep One God or three gods. Don’t ride in two boats at once.

 

[dzheremi]

That is what you are saying? But that is not the belief of the Church.

It is amazing how you know what the Church believes even though you are not Catholic and never make any effort to learn from us what we tell you that we believe.

Tell me what your other three gods are doing with the One God? You have three gods. You know it. Then it would not be wise of you to say that you believe in One God.

I responded too quickly above, it seems. You obviously have no idea what the Church teaches if you think this is an accurate reflection of Christianity.

No one will believe you.

I think the presence of ~2 billion Christians in the world proves this statement wrong.

You are in facts pagan worshipping three gods.

Opinion noted and thoroughly rejected, thank you. :nope:

But due to the pressure from the Jews and the Mulsims you have to revert to One God also. that is a fallacy in your theology. Please note it. A basic fallacy.

The only “fallacy” here, Planten, is your idea that it is due to pressure from Jews and Muslims that Christians present themselves as monotheists. That makes so little sense, I don’t even know where to begin. Christianity was not considered a branch of Judaism by the time of any of the councils that were called to protect the Church from heresy (that resulted in the doctrine that you are opposing), and Islam did not exist yet. So who pressured us into affirming that which GOD has made clear to us? Who even COULD? No one, of course. We are monotheists precisely because the Trinity is NOT three Gods, no matter what you think about it. We don’t need pressure from anyone to tell us what we have believed since hundreds of years before Islam existed, and after Christianity stopped being considered merely a heretical Jewish sect.

You please keep One God or three gods. Don’t ride in two boats at once.

Do you think that just because you say “please” we will accept your heresy against our beliefs? NO. You are the one who needs to accept the truth: You don’t know anything at all about Christianity. Either start to actually READ what we write about our own beliefs or if you don’t want to do that at least stop trying to tell us what we believe. You do not like it when Christians here do that regarding Islam, so stop doing that to us.

For the record, while I would not have thrown in all that “pedophile” and “mass-murderer” stuff in, what i’masinner wrote about Christians being unable to accept Muhammad’s prophethood from a scriptural/doctrinal standpoint is absolutely correct. Even if Muhammad were a perfect angel, we could not accept his prophethood or his revelation because it is in contradiction with our tradition and scriptures, and so denies the work of the Spirit through the prophets of the ages (of which Muhammad is not one). That is wrong, and nothing that Muhammad said or dictated can fix the fact that his message is so diametrically opposed with what came before it.

**Again: Even if no one ever used a bad word about Muhammad’s character and morality or the character and morality of any Muslim, we would still reject the false religion that is Islam. **Notice how I have said this without talking badly about your prophet. Hopefully now you can respond to the substance of our arguments (which are based on the real recognition of differences which you NEED to accept if you are serious about dialogue) without brushing them off as the arguments of “fanatics”. They’re really anything but that.

 

[R_not]

More abuse of the prophet Muhammad from a fanatic Catholic…

That is what you are saying? But that is not the belief of the Church.Tell me what your other three gods are doing with the One God? You have three gods. You know it. Then it would not be wise of you to say that you believe in One God. No one will believe you.

You are in facts pagan worshipping three gods. But due to the pressure from the Jews and the Mulsims you have to revert to One God also. that is a fallacy in your theology. Please note it. A basic fallacy. You please keep One God or three gods. Don’t ride in two boats at once.

How can it be abuse when your own texts tell us what he did and was?

And as for the Trinity - you have, personally, been told about the Trinity more than I was when I was a child!

But, when you talk about worshiping others - you guys worship not only allah, in fact it is secondary in worship to mohammed! mohammed who committed shirk more than once that we have documented. And the koran worship, and lastly - the one that muslims will deny until the veins in their throats pop - that black rock.

The worship of the Black Rock when a hajj is taken. See post for an ex-muslim response back to me about what muslims worship. The post does not have the article that I was referring to - so here it is. black rock

The thing is that deep down - most of us really don’t care what you worship. Now, you care about what we worship and continually call us names - polytheists being one of those names, and muslims include names such as apes, pigs and feces/urine when they think we are not watching or taping them. These are just things to dehumanize people in minds. To create a ‘them versus us’ attitude. And in that way it is easier to do what is done to unbelievers. The whole ‘unbeliver’ and ‘believer’ is a division that creates the ‘us versus them’ attitude too, along with the dividing up the lands into dar al harb (our lands not under sharia laws which means muslims are in a state of war with us) and dar al islam.

In one post, planten will sound like what we would like him to sound like - a nice guy, a guy who doesn’t believe in killing apostates, or the violent jihad, etc. And then in other posts, he posts stuff such as he did here.

And this is where the problem lies - muslims do indeed push their agenda onto us. they don’t like what we believe. They don’t have a ‘live and let live’ attitude. That is why there is no such thing as freedom in muslim lands, or in sharia laws.

And they are just following what mohammed did and commands them to do. Although the more one reads concerning islam the more one realizes the only consistent message is the one that divides people which leads easily into intolerance and into hatred. And this is islam - intolerance and hatred.

What we are saying about islam is ‘how can you follow such a guy as mohammed - a guy, who enslaved, killed, assasinated, tortured, looted, lied, etc?’. We have told you repeatedly the attributes of what we admire and love in God which is the total opposite of what islam, allah and mohammed are.

The ones who have a religion based on paganism is islam. And the allah/hajj/black rock/Mecca all originated in mohammed’s pagan religion. mohammed was a pagan for the first 40 years of his life. And since he couldn’t read or write - he might have heard some Biblical stories, but he did not know them very well because they are all screwed up in the koran.

You don’t even know your own religion. And you don’t even bother to know ours except from the viewpoint of the koran which is fallacious.

 

[Aydan]

I just found this video series part one clearly addresses the differences between Islam and Christianity and it is taught by two former Muslims who are now Christian and teach at Christian schools it is a long series but I would recommend it.
youtube.com/view_play_list?p=8362F3AAC4B6EBE8

 

[swariffin]

** You are just using false and bad words. I had asked a simple question. You have given a long post. What for? And you started discussing Muhammad too. There was no need of that yet. First you were to tell me “Who told you that Jesus is God.?” You should have given the name of that person or body and that would have been enough.

You still have not replied to my question “Who told you that Jesus was God?” I want to know that. I do not need any proof etc. In your above post, there is no mention of God. Can you see?. So try again. You have failed.**

Jesus said HIMSELF that He is the Messiah, the Son of the living God (Mat 26:63-64).

63. But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
64. Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Kayafas and the whole Jewish leader present, heard that.

 

[planten]

dzhereme, Please see what the sinner had written about our prophet. I called him/her a fanatic. I hope you are not blind. Please see:

Originally Posted by imasinner
Who told you Mohammad was a prophet? Who told Mohammad Christians believe in three gods? Your belief derives from Mohammad’s ignorance of what Christians actually believed and that is why there is not the remotest posibility that he was a true prophet. Islam may be able to overlook the fact that their prophet is an UNREPENTANT paedophile, rapist and mass-murderer (just to mention a few of his virtues) however Christianity according to their Scriptures (not to mention MORALLY) cannot consider him a prophet

.

** dzhereme, I did not call you a fanatic. That sinner is a fanatic. Or you give the decision in such cases?. Is that teaching Catholicism? That is abusing others is the basic Catholic principle. Nobody need to believe that Muhammad is a prophet of God. But nobody should abuse him. Similarly I am free not to believe that Jesus is a god or son of God.

I had to write all this because you had commented unfavorably on my post about the fanatic.

dzhereme, I feel that you would allow the abuse of Muhammad on this forum. But you would not tolerate abuse of Jesus. Is that so?. What kind of a person are you? You let me know about it please otherwise we need not pay any attention to whatever you say in future.**

 

[sedonaman]

You guys are hopeless. planten keeps changing the subject, and you follow him around. The topic is whether or not Catholics regard Muhammad as a prophet, not the theology of the Trinity.

Take samaan’s advice and ignore him when he does this.

 

[jakasaki]

You guys are hopeless. planten keeps changing the subject, and you follow him around. The topic is whether or not Catholics regard Muhammad as a prophet, not the theology of the Trinity.

Take samaan’s advice and ignore him when he does this.

 

[hawkeye]

hawkeye, thanks for your lecture and your effort to help me. I do not trust Saul of Tarsus. Please do not make your own beliefs as per your wishes. That would be sinful. Muhammad was a mere man, a slave of God. You say Jesus was god. I ask you, who told you that Jesus was god?

**Please explain and give the name of the person who told you that Jesus was god or is god. Thanks. The other all Christians have failed to give the properly **
reply.

I pray that you will be able to take this in-between your two ears, you may not get it at the first sitting, the second or the thousandth, but one day you will get it.

John 14:8 Philip saith to him:** Lord, show us the Father**, and it is enough for us. 9 Jesus saith to him:** Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me?** Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou, show us the Father? 10 Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works.
11 Believe you not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?

And I’m lecturing you and your not lecturing ? plus I don’t care what you think about St Paul, I don’t have to follow you, it’s the Church’s guidance we follow.

So explain the verses posted above ? John 14:8:11

 

[planten]

** hawkeye, good effort. You nearly did it. There is so much complication with your teachings. There is no mention of god in your post.

I feel that father is the god. So I should take the word “father” as “God”. I cannot do that because you have so many terminologies. Sometime the word Lord is used. At other times the word God is used. In your verses the word father is used. What to believe and how to believe that Jesus said that he was God himself. He never said it.

Moreover, please understand that the speech of Jesus is symbolic. He is right in saying that those who had seen him had seen God. It would be too simpleton to understand that he meant that he was God. He was a man of God, the only one at that time who represented god on earth. So he was entitled to say what he said. Please do not take wrong meanings of what Jesus said. Thanks anyway.**

 

[sedonaman]

Muhammad was a mere man, a slave of God [sic].

Then why do Muslims go ballistic whenever Muhammed is criticized?

Since the subject of this thread is Muhammed, please explain and give the name of the person who told you that Muhammed was the messenger/prophet of Allah. Thanks. So far you have failed to give the proper reply.

 

[hawkeye]

** hawkeye, good effort. You nearly did it. There is so much complication with your teachings. There is no mention of god in your post.**

Yes there is, God the Father…not god.

**

I feel that father is the god. So I should take the word “father” as “God”. I cannot do that because you have so many terminologies. Sometime the word Lord is used. At other times the word God is used. In your verses the word father is used. What to believe and how to believe that Jesus said that he was God himself. He never said it.

**

So would you describe the God you say you worship as your Father ?

**

He was a man of God, the only one

at that time who represented god on earth.**

So there were no Holy men at the time of Jesus ? Simeon was a Holy man, but he wasn’t the Son of God.

He was God made man, like I said before, Emmanuel means God among us.

**

So he was entitled to say what he said. Please do not take wrong meanings of what Jesus said. Thanks anyway.

**

No Holy man could say he was the Son of God, because they aren’t, were only adopted Sons of God.

CCC 2798 We can invoke God as “Father” because the Son of God made man has revealed him to us. In this Son, through Baptism, we are incorporated and adopted as sons of God.

 

[Daniel49]

It seems to me that from a Catholic-Christian perspective Mohamad would have to be considered the absolute anthesis of a prophet. His teachings are completely orthogonal to those teachings of Jesus Christ.

I see the three monothesitic religions as characterized primarily by the following traits:

1. Judaism: The Law as given at Sinai, and the Sanctity of Life
2. Christianity: Grace, Forgiveness, and Redemption
3. Islam: Conquering prople holding opposing beliefs by whatever means necessary

Daniel49