Catholics regard Muhammad as a prophet??

[Daniel49]

Quoting Planten:

“I hope ther eis no need to opologise for the acts of 9/11 because I do not know the exact nature of that incident.”

---

OK, I shall educate you. 19 muslim terrorists killed roughly 3,500 Americans on 9-11 by crashing jet airplanes on American soil. Now you know the exact details.

And so, now that you know the details, how about apologizing to all of us who love this country for the behaviour of your fellow comrads who did it in the name of allah?

Thanks,

Daniel49

 

[R_not]

**daniel, we will come to your testament. First you should give correct reference of the verses of Quran. Your ref. is not correct. Morover, these verses are very clear and based on justice. These are telling to fight those who fight you. Kill those who kill you. Quite natural. You want an un-natural life.

Elsewhere it is advised that forgive those who have transgressed against you (Muslims) if the forgiveness helps the infidel. That is also a good natural advice.

You have no guidance in your bibleNT. Don’t run after Quran, i…e. the Last Testament. Rather you should show something good from your book if there is anything good in that book. All the universal truths are now to be found in the Quran only. That is, all the good teachings of the previous scriptures are included in the Quran. Therefore, there is no need to read the old scriptures.

But you can keep on your ways without prejudice to the Last Testament i.e. Quran.**

Your own koran says says for the muslims to read the Bible. It is in the koran. surah 10:94 Basically, it is telling the muslims to read the Bible - the ‘books before them’. He even says that it is ‘truth from our Lord’.

• Jesus said ‘Before Abraham was - I AM’, John 8:58 muslims think they are the perfection of a corrupt Christianity when in fact they are a repudiation.

 

[planten]

Quoting Planten:

“I hope ther eis no need to opologise for the acts of 9/11 because I do not know the exact nature of that incident.”

---

OK, I shall educate you. 19 muslim terrorists killed roughly 3,500 Americans on 9-11 by crashing jet airplanes on American soil. Now you know the exact details.

And so, now that you know the details, how about apologizing to all of us who love this country for the behaviour of your fellow comrads who did it in the name of allah?

Thanks,

Daniel49

**Daniel, I am aware of the terrible tragedy that occured on 9/11, i.e. the attack on TT. Who did it? Why they did it?. That is none of my business. That seems to be some political issue and nothing to do with religion. Some disturbed people may have done it. I said I do not support such acts.

I hope that is good enough.**

 

[R_not]

**Daniel, I am aware of the terrible tragedy that occured on 9/11, i.e. the attack on TT. Who did it? Why they did it?. That is none of my business. That seems to be some political issue and nothing to do with religion. Some disturbed people may have done it. I said I do not support such acts.

I hope that is good enough.**

that is just nonsense that you are not aware of who did it. And since you have even admitted that islam is as much political as it is religious and into every aspect of a muslim’s life - it is more nonsense from you. Since the koran itself tells the muslims to do what they did not only on 9/11 - but terrorism since mohammed’s time - your own koran proves that islam is political.

 

[Daniel49]

Quoting Planten:

“Daniel, I am aware of the terrible tragedy that occured on 9/11, i.e. the attack on TT. Who did it? Why they did it?. That is none of my business. That seems to be some political issue and nothing to do with religion. Some disturbed people may have done it. I said I do not support such acts.”

---

People like you with answers like that make me sick to my stomach. The short answer to the question at the top of this thread which is:

Do Catholcs regard mo as a prophet?

Here is a very direct and simple answer to that question:

No.

Quite the contrary - - - mo is the anthesis of a prophet. Perhaps one might look at him as a prophet of hate and doom and I can buy into that one. And, I am confident that most Roman Catholics would agree with my assessment on that.

Daniel49

 

[Aydan]

It’s a lot worse than that if you read carefully you will notice that planten actually says that September 11 attacks are none of his business. Did you notice planten is making the same arguments that the brothers told us about? So I’m not at all surprised planten thinks the terrorist attack on the US is none of his business.

that is just nonsense that you are not aware of who did it. And since you have even admitted that islam is as much political as it is religious and into every aspect of a muslim’s life - it is more nonsense from you. Since the koran itself tells the muslims to do what they did not only on 9/11 - but terrorism since mohammed’s time - your own koran proves that islam is political.

 

[mojave19]

It is Catholic doctrine - a person who teaches that it is OK to be a child molester cannot be a prophet.

And there is nothing you can do about it; Catholism is free to determine her own teachings and belief. If she says Mohammad disqualifes as prophet because he molested a child, well, so that’s the way it’ll be.

While on this topic, I would like to draw the attention of my fellow Catholics to a promoter of child molestation that we seem to turn a blind eye toward: Christopher Columbus. One way he promoted his venture among potential Spanish recruits was to entice them with tales of the beautiful native girls of 8 to 10 years old. It’s time we awake from the 1950’s hagiographic image we have of this man and get historical. Just the facts, Ma’am. Just the facts. He promoted slavery, killing, exploitation, and molestation–values diametrically opposed to those of the gospel.
There is a Catholic parish not too far from me that even has a portrait of Columbus hanging in the parish hall! There is a tribal reservation less than 10 miles from the parish, so I told the Scottish pastor that hanging that picture there is to the Native Americans what hanging a picture of Oliver Cromwell would be like to Scottish Catholics. His jaw dropped. Meanwhile, the Indians go to Protestant churches.
I know the Knights of Columbus are behind this and I know they do very nice things for the unfortunate, but I don’t care if they spit polish the pope’s shoes, they need to change their name–period. In Northern Europe they go by Knights of Columba, a real saint. I’ve tried talking clearly and most rationally to them about this but it’s water off a duck’s back. It will take radical measures, I’m afraid.

 

[GraceDK]

…So I’m a little confused…

I’ve never been taught that I should regard Muhammad as a prophet, and I’ve been a Catholic for a year. What else do I need to know?

.

Dear Rob.

Yes, you should regard Muhammed as a prophet.
He is namely a false prophet.
The Old testament speaks numerous times about such men, so
it’s nothing new. Muhammed was a rapist, pedofile, warlord, who
saw women as less, contradicted both the Old and New Covenant and
who contradicted even the crucifixion and divinity of Christ. So there you have:
false prophet… or if you will… an anti-christ. (sorry to the Muslims on these boards,
I love you,
but you gotta look at the Hadith and tell me you really wanna follow such a guy)…

For further studies:
answering-islam.org/
I particularly recommend the headline: “why they converted”. No one can
better explain the errors of Islam than those who used to be Muslims.

Salaam, Shalom and Peace.

 

[R_not]

Dear Rob.

Yes, you should regard Muhammed as a prophet.
He is namely a false prophet.
The Old testament speaks numerous times about such men, so
it’s nothing new. Muhammed was a rapist, pedofile, warlord, who
saw women as less, contradicted both the Old and New Covenant and
who contradicted even the crucifixion and divinity of Christ. So there you have:
false prophet… or if you will… an anti-christ. (sorry to the Muslims on these boards,
I love you,
but you gotta look at the Hadith and tell me you really wanna follow such a guy)…

For further studies:
answering-islam.org/
I particularly recommend the headline: “why they converted”. No one can
better explain the errors of Islam than those who used to be Muslims.

Salaam, Shalom and Peace.

don’t forget he enslaved, stole (not only enslaving women and children, but also stole goods), lied, tortured (at least one man who mohammed wanted to find out where he stashed the rest of his goods), an assasin (of an old man over 100 years old, and a young women who was still breastfeeding her baby), killed many - one instance he didn’t even care about the children of the man he killed when the man asked for mercy because of his children, attacked unarmed or not heavily armed caravans for loot and slaves, took his stepson’s wife because he lusted after her, etc.

The things that mohammed did are an indication this guy wasn’t a prophet.

 

[Aydan]

Let me get this straight you are comparing Mohammad to Christopher Columbus. There is one major flaw with this comparison and that is Mohammad claimed to be a prophet of God and thousands of Muslims have used passages from the Koran to justify murdering people. To my knowledge Christopher Columbus never used Bible passages to justify murdering people. Even if he had tried to justify it by using the Bible he would be going against Christian teachings however wihen Muslims do it they can justify it by saying that they are following the teachings of Mohammad and the Koran.

While on this topic, I would like to draw the attention of my fellow Catholics to a promoter of child molestation that we seem to turn a blind eye toward: Christopher Columbus. One way he promoted his venture among potential Spanish recruits was to entice them with tales of the beautiful native girls of 8 to 10 years old. It’s time we awake from the 1950’s hagiographic image we have of this man and get historical. Just the facts, Ma’am. Just the facts. He promoted slavery, killing, exploitation, and molestation–values diametrically opposed to those of the gospel.
There is a Catholic parish not too far from me that even has a portrait of Columbus hanging in the parish hall! There is a tribal reservation less than 10 miles from the parish, so I told the Scottish pastor that hanging that picture there is to the Native Americans what hanging a picture of Oliver Cromwell would be like to Scottish Catholics. His jaw dropped. Meanwhile, the Indians go to Protestant churches.
I know the Knights of Columbus are behind this and I know they do very nice things for the unfortunate, but I don’t care if they spit polish the pope’s shoes, they need to change their name–period. In Northern Europe they go by Knights of Columba, a real saint. I’ve tried talking clearly and most rationally to them about this but it’s water off a duck’s back. It will take radical measures, I’m afraid.

 

[GraceDK]

Let me get this straight you are comparing Mohammad to Christopher Columbus. There is one major flaw with this comparison and that is Mohammad claimed to be a prophet of God and thousands of Muslims have used passages from the Koran to justify murdering people. To my knowledge Christopher Columbus never used Bible passages to justify murdering people. Even if he had tried to justify it by using the Bible he would be going against Christian teachings however wihen Muslims do it they can justify it by saying that they are following the teachings of Mohammad and the Koran.

Thats exactly right Aydan.
See Muhammad is today held in highest regard as a role model for all muslims… whereas I as a Christian have never heard about any of the thoughts of Columbus let alone held him in any esteem as a person.
Nuf said…:hey_bud:

 

[GraceDK]

don’t forget he enslaved, stole (not only enslaving women and children, but also stole goods), lied, tortured (at least one man who mohammed wanted to find out where he stashed the rest of his goods), an assasin (of an old man over 100 years old, and a young women who was still breastfeeding her baby), killed many - one instance he didn’t even care about the children of the man he killed when the man asked for mercy because of his children, attacked unarmed or not heavily armed caravans for loot and slaves, took his stepson’s wife because he lusted after her, etc.

The things that mohammed did are an indication this guy wasn’t a prophet.

Look brother…
I don’t disagree with you at all. The Bible however mentions false prophets… and these are per definition people who claim to have messages from God but who have these messages from them selves or the devil or who simply lie.

I have read many of those very sad Hadith you mention and the more I study Islam the more I wonder how educated people can be attracted to it. Especially women. Then I realise its because they have felt in a vacuum… we should have been there with the Gospel in the first place, but they first met another “system” that gave them what seemed like answers. We as Church have failed these fellow human beings.
I love the Muslims soo much… they are in such darkness. I can only hope you and me and people like us can go to them and say: “Hey your true identity is in Christ. You are a son and daughter of the most High… He is your Father who loves you unconditionally. let me tell you what Christ has done for me and for you”.

I know a guy who went from atheism to Islam. We are good friends. He told me he has never studied the Bible. When he saw me TALKING WITH God he was very moved and so too when I read the words of Jesus to him: “LOVE your enemies, pray for those who persecute you”… he always tried to explain away the Hadith and he couldn’t live up to the rules of Islam … he was lost in his religion like he was in atheism… just in a different way. But he was afraid of truly seeking the Truth.

You will be interested in this: youtube.com/watch?v=LN-dKwod3VM

Peace to you and your house.

 

[R_not]

Look brother…
I don’t disagree with you at all. The Bible however mentions false prophets… and these are per definition people who claim to have messages from God but who have these messages from them selves or the devil or who simply lie.

I have read many of those very sad Hadith you mention and the more I study Islam the more I wonder how educated people can be attracted to it. Especially women. Then I realise its because they have felt in a vacuum… we should have been there with the Gospel in the first place, but they first met another “system” that gave them what seemed like answers. We as Church have failed these fellow human beings.
I love the Muslims soo much… they are in such darkness. I can only hope you and me and people like us can go to them and say: “Hey your true identity is in Christ. You are a son and daughter of the most High… He is your Father who loves you unconditionally. let me tell you what Christ has done for me and for you”.

I know a guy who went from atheism to Islam. We are good friends. He told me he has never studied the Bible. When he saw me TALKING WITH God he was very moved and so too when I read the words of Jesus to him: “LOVE your enemies, pray for those who persecute you”… he always tried to explain away the Hadith and he couldn’t live up to the rules of Islam … he was lost in his religion like he was in atheism… just in a different way. But he was afraid of truly seeking the Truth.

You will be interested in this: youtube.com/watch?v=LN-dKwod3VM

Peace to you and your house.

Grace, yes I know all the passages, or at least many, that warn of false prophets and also the ones where God time and again has warned us not to worship the sun, moon (allah), or the other things in the sky. We also should not be fooled by allah/islam being a monotheistic religion. so what if islam is monotheistic! So was Ra a monotheistic god for Acknanton! Ra was instead a sun god, and Acknanton was not known for his ‘killing fields’ either.

And then the ones that clearly outline how to identify a prophet. mohammed meets none of the requirements to be a prophet. And mohammed was the poorest example of a man - NOT one to be emulated.

I find this part of your post funny/ironic:

he always tried to explain away the Hadith and he couldn’t live up to the rules of Islam

There is nothing to live ‘up to’. It is just rules to revert back to the basest of human functions. This is why I think they call ‘reverting to islam’ very proper - reverting back to the basest of human instincts.

I think that you sound like a fine example for muslims. To show them the way, to the Truth.

And when/if any muslim tells you that they never studied the Bible then you can come back with the fact that even the koran tells them to read the Bible. surah 10:94 Basically, it is telling the muslims to read the Bible - the ‘books before them’,it says that it is ‘truth from our Lord’.

So, anyone with a thinking brain (not a brainwashed one) will realize that the koran is not the word of any god. The Truth was already revealed and the koran is the complete opposite of it.

 

[Aydan]

It doesn’t really go into where mohammed got his idea of Isa though. Although I loved how the brothers told us of how they were converted.

A question: ‘how did they think about Jesus differently?’ ( paraphrase the response as I copied it as he spoke)

I just found the web site of the other brother on his web site he goes into detail about Isa perhaps it will answer some of your questions.

erguncaner.com/home/resources/default.php

 

[sedonaman]

While on this topic, …

Even if Columbus was guilty of all those things, for which you provide no evidence, it has nothing to do with whether or not Catholics regard Muhammed as a prophet. So it is not on topic.

 

[Aydan]

Even if Columbus was guilty of all those things, for which you provide no evidence, it has nothing to do with whether or not Catholics regard Muhammed as a prophet. So it is not on topic.

yeah I agree with you I fail to see the argument that person is making because to my knowledge Christopher Columbus never said he was a prophet of God and people don’t commit violence in the name of Christopher Columbus last time I checked. Frankly I don’t even know what Christopher Columbus has to do with Catholicism unless I’m missing something here.

 

[sedonaman]

Frankly I don’t even know what Christopher Columbus has to do with Catholicism unless I’m missing something here.

Well, he was a Catholic, so to demonstrate their proper sensitivity and acceptability, it’s only right for anti-Catholics, and self-hating Catholics, to equate even alleged crimes committed by Catholics with Catholic doctrine. In the old days, we use to call such demonstrations patronizing.

 

[GraceDK]

… mohammed meets none of the requirements to be a prophet.

There is nothing to live ‘up to’. It is just rules to revert back to the basest of human functions. This is why I think they call ‘reverting to islam’ very proper - reverting back to the basest of human instincts.

Your first point here is very good and I challenge the muslims on board to consider this fact. Muhammad was false prophet because:

• He was greatly distubed and on the brink of suicide and had no peace during the beginning of his meetings with “Gabriel”. Lack of peace is a sign from the devil.
• He never performed one single miracle which all the other prophets have done. He simply didnt have the power to.
• He made false statements about Christianity… the person whom he was communicating with didnt know the simple tenets of Christian theology… like that the Trinity is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, not like this allah thought: Father, Son and Virgin Mary.
• His moral example was all together lacking. He was a barbarian man.
• Muhammed claimed to be the last in the line of authentic prophets… however he was not Jewish like the others… he was not of Israel.
• The Jews and Christians saw all the above why they denied that he could be a prophet, wherefore he then killed them and cursed them.

None of these are prophetic behaviours. Sorry, but they just arent.
Now I challenge any Muslim to take the challenge seriously and explain how he/she can still hold Muhammed as a prophet.

Salaam, Shalom and Peace.

Grace.

By the way… my friend had a hard time doing both the fasting during Ramadan, staying from alcohol and even the salat was difficult for him … he prayed only half the prayers… and he complained: “I am a bad Muslim”. I told him… “My friend, God doesn’t care about your rituals. He is after your heart”.

Grace.

 

[theprune]

daniel, we will come to your testament. First you should give correct reference of the verses of Quran. Your ref. is not correct. Morover, these verses are very clear and based on justice. These are telling to fight those who fight you. Kill those who kill you. Quite natural. You want an un-natural life.

Elsewhere it is advised that forgive those who have transgressed against you (Muslims) if the forgiveness helps the infidel. That is also a good natural advice.

You have no guidance in your bibleNT. Don’t run after Quran, i…e. the Last Testament. Rather you should show something good from your book if there is anything good in that book. All the universal truths are now to be found in the Quran only. That is, all the good teachings of the previous scriptures are included in the Quran. Therefore, there is no need to read the old scriptures.

But you can keep on your ways without prejudice to the Last Testament i.e. Quran.

To Mr. Planten

I think you need to give us a good web site where we can find a copy of the Quran in English that is accurate. I have seen several web sites in the past that conflicted with each other. It would be good if the web site is searchable. That is it has a place where you can type in a word or phrase and the web site itself locates what you want to know within the Quaran.

If we are to discuss Muhammad and Islam intelligently it would be good to have an accurate text which we can all access easily.

 

[mojave19]

Let me get this straight you are comparing Mohammad to Christopher Columbus. There is one major flaw with this comparison and that is Mohammad claimed to be a prophet of God and thousands of Muslims have used passages from the Koran to justify murdering people. To my knowledge Christopher Columbus never used Bible passages to justify murdering people. Even if he had tried to justify it by using the Bible he would be going against Christian teachings however wihen Muslims do it they can justify it by saying that they are following the teachings of Mohammad and the Koran.

I falsely assumed that it would be clear I was warning Catholics about, as the gospel puts it, trying to remove the speck in someone’s eye while we have a log in our own.

Though Mohammed may have done many an evil deed (posters, it would be more convincing if you cited sources for those allegations, authoritative sources), however, Mohammed was not Christian and was therefore not bound by Christian morals as we are.

I simply don’t understand why we are not only dismissing the truth about the crimes committed by Columbus and the conquistadors who followed him, but we are also still honoring him by hanging portraits of him in church halls and retaining his name in the most popular lay Catholic men’s association.

He knew Queen Isabella was devout and often used the Catholic Faith as a way of justifying what he was doing. Not only is this very simple to find in secondary sources, you can read it in his own words if you lay hold of a copy of “Select Letters of Christopher Columbus,” translated by R. H. Major, New York: Corinth, 1961.

Columbus and subsequent conquistadors were smitten with gold fever and literally wouldn’t let anyone in their way of getting it, even if it meant compromised with evil: “Gold is most excellent; gold constitutes treasure; and he who has it does all he wants in the world, and can even lift souls up to Paradise.” (Columbus, “Select Letters of Christopher Columbus”)

Also read the pleas of the Bishop De Las Casas who was a major whistle blower of the time, urging the Spanish courts to stop the massacres of the Native Americans (Columbus’ men were chopping the Indians bodies to feed them to their attack dogs!). Many liberals and anti-Catholics seem to overlook that it was much to the credit of the Spanish, and of course the Catholic moral values at the root, to at least make an attempt from the other side of the Atlantic to denounce and stop this butchery–the first time in recorded history that an invasion was curtailed on moral grounds. Yet centuries after those famous University of Salamanca debates, we hang Columbus’ picture in the church hall and we see men emblazoning his name at Sunday pancake breakfasts and charity drives! Woe unto us! Will our self-imposed ignorance and indifference be forgiven?