Catholics seem to believe...

  • Thread starter Thread starter sandmountainsli
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
In the words of major Protestant-converts to the faith (Marcus Groudi, Scott Hahn, et.al.) they say they do not improve, but complete the journey when they convert.

As Catholics, we believe Catholicism has the fullness of revealed Truth. Protestantism has part of that revealed Truth and so do many other faiths. Catholicism completes, not improves these partial Truths.

As an analogy, a person meets, dates, and one day marries a person. It is a process. A Protestant form birth may even get up to the marrying part, but until the consummation of the marrige, they do not become one. Entering into Catholicism is that final act of oneness, especially in the Blessed Eucharist. The fullness and spiritual union of the bride with the beloved Bridegroom. This puts a new dimensional meaning tothe phrase “Abide in ME and I in you” don’t you think?

Hope this helps.

God’s Love to all !
 
…that Protestants would improve themselves by reverting to Catholicism, would it not make sense by the same logic that both Catholic and Protestants would better ourselves by reverting to Judaism? WP
Not a reformed Jew. A messianic Jew maybe.
A Jew that believes that Jesus is the Son of God is a CHRISTIAN 🙂 Melanie
…The Jewish faith never progressed to that point.
Actually, the Ebionites were the Jewish Faith embracing Christ, so one could say that at least some of the Jewish religion became Christian.

James’ people were probably the earliest Ebionites. One recalls that the first community in Jerusalem was largely very recently converted Jews in the city for the Religious festival of Pentecost.

*Peter (said) to them, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit. For the promise is made to you and to your children and to all those far off, whomever the Lord our God will call.”

He testified with many other arguments, and was exhorting them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand persons were added that day.

They devoted themselves to the teaching of the apostles and to the communal life, to the breaking of the bread and to the prayers.
Awe came upon everyone, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.

All who believed were together and had all things in common; they would sell their property and possessions and divide them among all according to each one’s need. Every day they devoted themselves to meeting together in the temple area and to breaking bread in their homes. They ate their meals with exultation and sincerity of heart, praising God and enjoying favor with all the people. And every day the Lord added to their number those who were being saved.*

Acts 2:38-47

This actually would be a pretty good description of the Ebionites, who observed the Law of Moses, and were said to live a poor, communal existence for the most part. One remembers that Paul made an agreement to take a contribution to the mother church in Jerusalem, the community was known to be impoverished and following a spartan lifestyle (very “monkish” to modern reflection, I suppose 😉 ).

The first parishes for all of us were essentially synagogs, and a study of the development of the liturgy makes that very clear, all liturgies began as synagog services with the addition of the Table Blessing (normally done in home settings) which Christ commanded the Apostles to repeat in worship. The Table Blessing became our Eucharistic celebration.

Later under the influence of Paul’s theology the much larger Gentile church suppressed the Ebionites, principally for their commitment to the practice of the Mosaic Law. Today we might call it a set of particular devotional practices, but the Fathers of the Church then felt that the continued ‘devotion’ to the law was a denial of the saving power of Christ’s crucifixion or the regenerating power of baptism.

It is likely that many of these Jewish Christians and their synagog-churches perished in the revolts against Roma. They considered themselves to be the True Jews so it is possible that some (or even most) actively participated.

With the loss of the Ebionites we actually did lose the last Apostolic Jewish Christians…almost.

There are still Apostolic Christians who can make a strong claim to being Jews even into modern times. One could call them a remnant community (being rather unique) but they are actually fairly numerous. The Knaniya Christians of Kerala, India (a province right along the ancient sea trade routes). They exist in both Orthodox and Catholic communities and are endomic, in other words they do not marry outside of their race (although there probably has been some admixture over time they do not as a rule permit it). Their liturgy derives from the Syro-Palestinian Liturgy of St James and they still also practice Jewish customs.

http://knanaya345.com/phy/clim/52015/aa87.jpg

They do not claim to be actual descendants of the community of Jerusalem, but scholastic inquiry seems to indicate that they derive originally from the Jewish Communities of Mesopotamia and probably also southern India.

It is very likely that the entire St Thomas Christian community (a much larger group altogether) can trace it’s origins back to these people through conversion and/or intermarriage with them, although only the Knaniya (Southists, as they are also known) are endomic and retain some Jewish customs.
*
Michael*
 
…that Protestants would improve themselves by reverting to Catholicism, would it not make sense by the same logic that both Catholic and Protestants would better ourselves by reverting to Judaism? We would be back at the origin of our faith and we would be following the religion of our Lord himself. Gimme thoughts.
WP
No, it’s not about reverting, it’s about embracing the truth. Luther was not a divinely appointed agent for change–his movement was not of God (unlike that of Jesus Christ). See here:

biblelight.net/keenan.htm#28
 
Why? It is true.

CDL
:dts: Protestants do not “ignore the New Testament”. In your opinion we may misinterpret it, but I’ve never met a Protestant who could be said to have “ignored the New Testament.” Please try a little charity.
 
The OP uses the terms “improve themselves” and “better themselves.”

That seems a tremendous understatement. Perhaps I am misinterpreting the OP.** Perhaps the poster is not from the U.S.A.** and is using the terms in a different sense than I am used to.
Actually he is from the USA. More exactly he lives in Alabama (Heart of -]Dixie/-] Anti-Catholicism).
 
…that Protestants would improve themselves by reverting to Catholicism, would it not make sense by the same logic that both Catholic and Protestants would better ourselves by reverting to Judaism? We would be back at the origin of our faith and we would be following the religion of our Lord himself. Gimme thoughts.
WP
Our fathers plan for our salvation begins with a series of covenants first made with Adam and then continuing down through Noah, Abraham, Moses, David and finally Jesus. This divine family building is hoped to finally end in divine son ship for his family members when it all comes to completion in the church his universal family. God’s family building first begins with a marriage covenant and then continues to a group covenant, then a tribal covenant, then a national covenant, then a national kingdom covenant and finally with his universal (catholic) covenantal family the Church. God’s kingdom and earthly family began with two people and ends with all people who keep the covenant in the universal or Catholic Church family. One becomes a member of this family not by a physical birth, but by being “born anew,” a birth " of water and the spirit," that is, by faith in Christ, and Baptism. The covenant is the over arching theme of the Bible and the unifying principle for interpreting the scriptures. The fullness of redemption or salvation culminates in our sharing of god’s eternal divine son ship. This covenantal family relationship can only be found in the Catholic Church.
 
non-Catholic: Saved when I found Jesus
Catholic: Saved when Jesus finds me
 
Actually he is from the USA. More exactly he lives in Alabama (Heart of -]Dixie/-] Anti-Catholicism).
How dare you accuse me of anti-Catholicism?:mad:
Is this your way of making me “eat rats” as they did at La Rochelle?
You are a Judgementalist of the highest order! If you do not care for Alabama I am sure I-65 is still open:thumbsup:
WP
 
How dare you accuse me of anti-Catholicism?:mad:
Is this your way of making me “eat rats” as they did at La Rochelle?
You are a Judgementalist of the highest order! If you do not care for Alabama I am sure I-65 is still open:thumbsup:
WP
He accused Alabama of being the heart of Anti-Catholicism. And if you live there, you know that it is true.

It wasn’t until I lived in Alabama that I was told that I wasn’t Christian, but Catholic and Catholics weren’t Christian. 🤷
 
He accused Alabama of being the heart of Anti-Catholicism. And if you live there, you know that it is true.

It wasn’t until I lived in Alabama that I was told that I wasn’t Christian, but Catholic and Catholics weren’t Christian. 🤷
Would you like a shovel to help force rats down my throat? It is St. Bartholomew’s Day all over again! :confused:
I have lived on this mountain for my entire 36 years on earth and while I have met very few Catholics I have never saw them oppressed in such a way. The woman who lives across the street from me is Catholic from NY and not once have I yelled “Non Christian!” at her nor has anyone else, she loves it here.
Keep shoving yer rats at me and I shall sew a coat out of their hides!
WP
 
Would you like a shovel to help force rats down my throat? It is St. Bartholomew’s Day all over again! :confused:
I have lived on this mountain for my entire 36 years on earth and while I have met very few Catholics I have never saw them oppressed in such a way. The woman who lives across the street from me is Catholic from NY and not once have I yelled “Non Christian!” at her nor has anyone else, she loves it here.
Keep shoving yer rats at me and I shall sew a coat out of their hides!
WP
Didn’t say you oppressed Catholics. Didn’t say that you said anything about someone being a non Christian. Didn’t even say that people in Alabama oppressed Catholics. 🤷

Will say that after living all over the world, I wasn’t called a non Christian until I moved to Alabama. :ehh:

If by informing people of this fact, I am somehow reminding you of a massacre, I can’t believe it. Talk about blowing things out of proportion.
 
…that Protestants would improve themselves by reverting to Catholicism, would it not make sense by the same logic that both Catholic and Protestants would better ourselves by reverting to Judaism? We would be back at the origin of our faith and we would be following the religion of our Lord himself. Gimme thoughts.
WP
The logic is not simply to go “back in time” as though the goal were to “go back in time.” Rather, the goal is to get into the religion that Jesus actually started.

One of the marks of that religion is that it is precisely 2007 years old. Not younger than that (thus, not Protestant) and not older than that (thus, not Jewish).
 
Will say that after living all over the world, I wasn’t called a non Christian until I moved to Alabama. :ehh:
I have been called a non-Christian even here in Calgary, and even when I was still Protestant. In fact, I used to be my Baptist friend’s “non-Christian” companion, so that he and I could go to social events at his church. (They couldn’t go unless they brought a non-Christian friend with them. Thus, the beginnings of my Apologetics career, since the leaders would attempt to evangelize me. Luckily for my friend, I had a pretty hard head - still do - and never did convert, so we got to go to quite a lot of those things together. Great times. 😛 )

But why would anyone worry about whether a Protestant thinks you are Christian or not? Since when does their opinion even matter? The only opinion that counts is that of Jesus Christ - founder of the Catholic Church. 😉
 
… Alabama (Heart of Dixie Anti-Catholicism).
Funny… I though Alabama was home of EWTN. :extrahappy:

(Former anti-Catholic protestant sends… 😊 )
 
How dare you accuse me of anti-Catholicism?:mad:
Is this your way of making me “eat rats” as they did at La Rochelle?
You are a Judgementalist of the highest order! If you do not care for Alabama I am sure I-65 is still open:thumbsup:
WP
? Wha’t got your undies in a knot?
 
But why would anyone worry about whether a Protestant thinks you are Christian or not? Since when does their opinion even matter? The only opinion that counts is that of Jesus Christ - founder of the Catholic Church. 😉
Its more the problem of eating a nice lunch with a group of people, and someone saying something like, before I was a Christian, when I was Catholic. And I say, Catholics are Christian, and the response is no they’re not. :eek: I really don’t worry about, it is just annoying.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top