L
Lisa4Catholics
Guest
To the thread starter:ehh: What say you about Mother Teresa of Calcutta and Pope John Paul 2?
- Status
G
gardenswithkids
Guest
You raise some good points. I agree with you that the music and sermons in Protestant churches is often better than the music and preaching in Catholic churches. I think the reason for that is because all that most Protestant churches have is preaching and music. They don’t have the sacraments so they can *never *be as good as a Catholic Mass with bad music and bad preaching. Our fruit is the Eucharist, Jesus Himself: body, blood, soul and divinity.
Mass isn’t intended for entertainment, but many Protestant churches focus on the entertainment of their target audience. And they often have a target audience. You don’t find the great praise music in the churches that reach out to retired people. You don’t find organs in the churches that reach out to the young. But our Catholic churches reach out to the old and the young. Our fruit is a parish that includes everyone, young and old, from all nationalities and backgrounds.
Lastly, the fruits that you see from Protestant Church’s Bible studies, Bible preaching and Vacation Bible School are also the fruit of the Catholic Church. The Bible is one of the fruits from the Catholic Church.
I don’t know if you are a non-Catholic, or a Catholic who is thinking about leaving. In either case, I recommend that you read some of the beautiful works coming out of Protestants who converted to the Catholic Church: Scott and Kimberly Hahn, Jeff Cavins, Marcus Grodi, and a whole host of others. Their conversion stories are powerful witnesses to the beautiful fruit of Mary’s womb, Jesus, found in the Catholic Church.
J
JPrejean
Guest
I’d say that the fruits of any Christian church are most clearly displayed in missionary evangelization and in charity.
Based on the statistics collected by the Church for 2002 (jknirp.com/miss2.htm), there were over 2.2 million Catholics working in missionary activity, including priests, religious, and lay catechists. Lots of those don’t get counted in “missionary” statistics, because the priests and religious are members of missionary orders who simply live in the evangelized nations and set up mission churches and catechetical programs, and “missionaries” are often considered only people who have left their native country to go to another one temporarily. But even if one counts only those as missionaries, there were still nearly twice as many Catholic missionaries as Protestant missionaries in 2002 (uscwm.org/mobilization_division/pastors_web_folder/global_mission_statistics.html). Moreover, as those statistics will note, a large percentage (74%) of Protestant missionaries are among “Nominal Christians,” a category which includes evangelization among Catholics in Catholic countries. So a significant amount of Protestant mission work is simply sheep-stealing and not evangelization.
So much for mission work, but what about charity? In the United States, an indisputably Protestant country, the Catholic Church is the largest non-governmental provider of education, health care, and human services (and that’s true in most states as well). Even outside the boundaries of this country, Catholic Charities is one of the largest charitable organizations in the world, and last I heard, the St. Vincent de Paul Society has the largest membership of any charitable organization.
The myth about the supposedly greater fruits of Protestantism is just that: a myth. No Catholic is content with the presence of nominal Catholics in the Church, but you cannot say that faithful Catholics don’t bear Christian fruit.
Based on the statistics collected by the Church for 2002 (jknirp.com/miss2.htm), there were over 2.2 million Catholics working in missionary activity, including priests, religious, and lay catechists. Lots of those don’t get counted in “missionary” statistics, because the priests and religious are members of missionary orders who simply live in the evangelized nations and set up mission churches and catechetical programs, and “missionaries” are often considered only people who have left their native country to go to another one temporarily. But even if one counts only those as missionaries, there were still nearly twice as many Catholic missionaries as Protestant missionaries in 2002 (uscwm.org/mobilization_division/pastors_web_folder/global_mission_statistics.html). Moreover, as those statistics will note, a large percentage (74%) of Protestant missionaries are among “Nominal Christians,” a category which includes evangelization among Catholics in Catholic countries. So a significant amount of Protestant mission work is simply sheep-stealing and not evangelization.
So much for mission work, but what about charity? In the United States, an indisputably Protestant country, the Catholic Church is the largest non-governmental provider of education, health care, and human services (and that’s true in most states as well). Even outside the boundaries of this country, Catholic Charities is one of the largest charitable organizations in the world, and last I heard, the St. Vincent de Paul Society has the largest membership of any charitable organization.
The myth about the supposedly greater fruits of Protestantism is just that: a myth. No Catholic is content with the presence of nominal Catholics in the Church, but you cannot say that faithful Catholics don’t bear Christian fruit.
H
hlgomez
Guest
jeffjuls,
Others on this particular thread had answered well. But let me put in my answers to the above comment.
It is to my assesment that your comment is based on ignorance of what the Holy Mass is all about. You think that since you are singing and dancing in your own congregation that you are really on fire with God. But this is not the case in the Mass.
Mass, first and foremost, is the re-presentation of the Sacrifice at Calvary. To put itin boldest terms, it is actually a Sacrifice of Calvary. So then, all the music intended for this sacrifice is not to divert our attention from its reality.
At Calvary, nobody sings and rejoices and dance. It was the most solemn of all world events in human history. So then, at the Mass, since it is “making present” the Sacrifice of Christ (not re-enacting), the music should be solemn and with high reverence to the Eucharist.
In my opinion, it is more preferable that we make use of the Gregorian chants during Mass. But other music, as long as it follows the need for reverence, is to be practiced.
Pio
N
netmender
Guest
When a protestant missionary, or missionary of one of the sects that arose in America in the 19th C., goes into South or Central America or many other places in the world to evangelize, what does he find is already there? I picture in my mind one of the missionaries mentioned above climbing a high mountain in S. America, and when coming into the village, finding a Catholic Church. At that point, it’s not a matter of starting off from scratch like the original Catholic missionaries did, but trying to convince the inhabitants that the Church is “wrong”…
It might be good to read the story of St. Francis Xavier, or to look into the religous outlook of the Catholic explorers of the New World; Columbus, Champlaign, etc.
It might be good to read the story of St. Francis Xavier, or to look into the religous outlook of the Catholic explorers of the New World; Columbus, Champlaign, etc.
S
StratusRose
Guest
Your accusations that you present about the Catholic Church can be described as faulty at best. In fact, I find them insulting based the ignorance of them.
Let me ask you this, did your pastor say this and now you are using his/her words as your own? Because anyone with a brain and a computer with internet access can look up the questions on credible Catholic websites and see that what you accuse the Church of is not true.
About the music…I prefer not to go to a Church where people are singing with a 12 piece band and waving arms around, running down aisles, etc. I’ve been to many churches like that before my conversion. Not one moment was of contemplative prayer and time to spend with the Lord. Could Jesus have spent that time with God in the garden with people belting out tunes in his ears?
How many Catholic Churches have you been to? And, more importantly, did you attend with an open heart and mind?
The homilies my priest gives are earth shattering. He comes from behind the pulpit to where the congregation is sitting, he uses real life situations and relates them to scripture. I leave Mass feeling filled with the Holy Spirit.
The college I attended has a massive youth group. They have pro-life groups, elderly groups, hospitality groups, knights of columbus, catholic daughters, bible study groups, shall I continue???
My future mother in law helps out with the Catholic VBS and the parish is packed to the brim.
Perhaps you live in an area where there is not a high concentration of Catholics. However, it is not fair to assign such a stereotype on a group of 1.2 billion people and say that we do not do enough for evangelization and for God’s people.
Let me ask you this, did your pastor say this and now you are using his/her words as your own? Because anyone with a brain and a computer with internet access can look up the questions on credible Catholic websites and see that what you accuse the Church of is not true.
About the music…I prefer not to go to a Church where people are singing with a 12 piece band and waving arms around, running down aisles, etc. I’ve been to many churches like that before my conversion. Not one moment was of contemplative prayer and time to spend with the Lord. Could Jesus have spent that time with God in the garden with people belting out tunes in his ears?
How many Catholic Churches have you been to? And, more importantly, did you attend with an open heart and mind?
The homilies my priest gives are earth shattering. He comes from behind the pulpit to where the congregation is sitting, he uses real life situations and relates them to scripture. I leave Mass feeling filled with the Holy Spirit.
The college I attended has a massive youth group. They have pro-life groups, elderly groups, hospitality groups, knights of columbus, catholic daughters, bible study groups, shall I continue???
My future mother in law helps out with the Catholic VBS and the parish is packed to the brim.
Perhaps you live in an area where there is not a high concentration of Catholics. However, it is not fair to assign such a stereotype on a group of 1.2 billion people and say that we do not do enough for evangelization and for God’s people.
M
MiddleBear
Guest
Just a few observations…
Many baby boomers fell away in large part due to bad (outright wrong) catechesis from 1965 through 1975. Many self styled “progressive” nuns and priests put a strangle-hold on parish catecesis programs, actually they started to call them “education” programs. So many Catholics never learned the Faith.
Thanks to Pope John Paul II and many holy priests such as Father Benedict Groeschel, the Faith was taught to those who sought it.
And Catholic Answers and other sound apologetics sources werre started and is there now.
Also we saw Mother Angelica’s EWTN provides very sound Catholic programing.
So if your parish is stuck with dissident “education ministers” go to sound resources, learn, and evangelize and pray. Do not get discouraged even if your parish still has the aging dissenting nun or priest not to mention the self-styled cafeteria catholic lay “ministers”. Be sure to speak the Truth! Use the Catechism of the Catholic Church and any other sound apologetic materials.
Hopefully the aging Catholic Lite Brigade will get the light before they fade away.
Do not get discouraged, as John Paul II said this is the new spring time of the Church. And of course
“Be not afraid” - John Paul II
Thanks…
Pray the daily rosary for conversions
Many baby boomers fell away in large part due to bad (outright wrong) catechesis from 1965 through 1975. Many self styled “progressive” nuns and priests put a strangle-hold on parish catecesis programs, actually they started to call them “education” programs. So many Catholics never learned the Faith.
Thanks to Pope John Paul II and many holy priests such as Father Benedict Groeschel, the Faith was taught to those who sought it.
And Catholic Answers and other sound apologetics sources werre started and is there now.
Also we saw Mother Angelica’s EWTN provides very sound Catholic programing.
So if your parish is stuck with dissident “education ministers” go to sound resources, learn, and evangelize and pray. Do not get discouraged even if your parish still has the aging dissenting nun or priest not to mention the self-styled cafeteria catholic lay “ministers”. Be sure to speak the Truth! Use the Catechism of the Catholic Church and any other sound apologetic materials.
Hopefully the aging Catholic Lite Brigade will get the light before they fade away.
Do not get discouraged, as John Paul II said this is the new spring time of the Church. And of course
“Be not afraid” - John Paul II
Thanks…
Pray the daily rosary for conversions
G
GAssisi
Guest
I want to specifically address the issue of good sermons. The first time I attended a Catholic Mass when I was still a Protestant, I was bored out of my wits. I wanted energetic preaching, to be fired up and to feel inspired.
When I became Catholic, it all changed for me. Actually it changed for me even before I became Catholic, as I LEARNED TO SEPARATE THE PREACHING FROM BEING AT REST AND SIMPLY HEARING THE WORD OF GOD. I can still appreciate a good preaching show, but hearing the Word of God and being fed by the Eucharist cannot be topped. No amount of energetic preaching, I am convinced now, can replace this.
I guess I am easily satisfied and contented. I am not the type of person that needs to hear something new. I can read or listen to the Words of Scripture over and over and be inspired beyond words by that alone, without the benefit of fist pounding and voice raising. I know people who NEED to be inspired by new fangled twists on Scripture exegesis. I remember how awestruck some of the members of my congregation were when the pastor managed to innovate some fantastically clever acronym for them to live by. For myself, I find that silly and unnecessary now, though I fully understand that others are on a different level and require that sort of evangelical hoopla. Nothing wrong with that. But when one feels so discontented to the point of wanting to leave the Church because one is not feeling excited or pumped up, then I must say the buck stops there – one is no longer focused on being satisfied spiritually, but being satisfied emotionally.
In the same way, people who leave the Church or fall into schism because of the STYLE of the Liturgy are really missing the point about Mass or Divine Liturgy. It is not about feeling good, or feeling inspired; it is all about an OBJECTIVE union with God that goes beyond emotions, and should and cannot ever be replaced by emotional satisfaction, whether it be from attraction to traditional smells and bells or the beauty of a church edifice, or the attraction of an exciting “spirit-filled” sermon.
I am not saying do not convert if you feel called to it. What I am saying is do not convert for superficial reasons like wanting to FEEL excited, or wanting to be inspired, whether by good sermons, or by the physical environment of a church edifice. As I’ve always maintained, God will lead people to where they can be watered best, but it is my firm conviction that those who sincerely seek the truth will be led into or back into the Catholic Church.
God bless
When I became Catholic, it all changed for me. Actually it changed for me even before I became Catholic, as I LEARNED TO SEPARATE THE PREACHING FROM BEING AT REST AND SIMPLY HEARING THE WORD OF GOD. I can still appreciate a good preaching show, but hearing the Word of God and being fed by the Eucharist cannot be topped. No amount of energetic preaching, I am convinced now, can replace this.
I guess I am easily satisfied and contented. I am not the type of person that needs to hear something new. I can read or listen to the Words of Scripture over and over and be inspired beyond words by that alone, without the benefit of fist pounding and voice raising. I know people who NEED to be inspired by new fangled twists on Scripture exegesis. I remember how awestruck some of the members of my congregation were when the pastor managed to innovate some fantastically clever acronym for them to live by. For myself, I find that silly and unnecessary now, though I fully understand that others are on a different level and require that sort of evangelical hoopla. Nothing wrong with that. But when one feels so discontented to the point of wanting to leave the Church because one is not feeling excited or pumped up, then I must say the buck stops there – one is no longer focused on being satisfied spiritually, but being satisfied emotionally.
In the same way, people who leave the Church or fall into schism because of the STYLE of the Liturgy are really missing the point about Mass or Divine Liturgy. It is not about feeling good, or feeling inspired; it is all about an OBJECTIVE union with God that goes beyond emotions, and should and cannot ever be replaced by emotional satisfaction, whether it be from attraction to traditional smells and bells or the beauty of a church edifice, or the attraction of an exciting “spirit-filled” sermon.
I am not saying do not convert if you feel called to it. What I am saying is do not convert for superficial reasons like wanting to FEEL excited, or wanting to be inspired, whether by good sermons, or by the physical environment of a church edifice. As I’ve always maintained, God will lead people to where they can be watered best, but it is my firm conviction that those who sincerely seek the truth will be led into or back into the Catholic Church.
God bless
M
mrS4ntA
Guest
You’ve SAID it!!
A
AuntMartha
Guest
I have some thoughts to share on this.
First, some background to understand my perspective: I was raised in the Catholic Church, fell away from it and started attending Protestant churches, went through a couple of years of not believing anything, then became a believer in 2002 and started attending a Protestant church again. There were issues with that church that were bothering me, which I believe was God’s way of beginning to bring me back to Catholicism. Then, about a month or so ago, I had this incredible urge to pray the Rosary. I found myself drawing back to the Catholic Church more and more, and went back about a month ago. I’ve attended three masses so far and will be there this Sunday morning.
Now, about your concerns:
When I returned to Catholic Mass, I was so inspired by the music I heard. It was so beautiful. Without being a “show-off”. Last Sunday when we were going to communion, we were singing “O Sons and Daughters” (Tune: O Filii Et Filiae), which has a chorus of Alleluias in a minor key. It was so much more spiritually moving to sing that chorus of alleluias and to see solemn, devout people processing to the alter for communion singing this song, than any hand waving or booty-shaking I saw at the Protestant church.
I have listened to Christian radio stations. I know I’m probably not supposed to say anything critical, since these songs are “Praise and Worship” songs to God, but some of the songs are just so sappy and just plain bad. I found myself snapping off the radio in disgust.
I would say you should go to Mass again with an open mind. If one can’t praise and worship God without making a big noisy fuss, there’s something wrong there.
Aunt Martha
First, some background to understand my perspective: I was raised in the Catholic Church, fell away from it and started attending Protestant churches, went through a couple of years of not believing anything, then became a believer in 2002 and started attending a Protestant church again. There were issues with that church that were bothering me, which I believe was God’s way of beginning to bring me back to Catholicism. Then, about a month or so ago, I had this incredible urge to pray the Rosary. I found myself drawing back to the Catholic Church more and more, and went back about a month ago. I’ve attended three masses so far and will be there this Sunday morning.
Now, about your concerns:
I have found the homilies I have heard so far to be very interesting and scripturally based. What I found at the Protestant church was that the pastor seemed to go on and on and say the same thing three different ways, as if we were too dumb to get it the first go-round. Also, it was as if the church felt "the longer the better’ as far as the length of the sermon went. I can sit and listen to long sermons fairly attentively, but even I was getting antsy. My husband and kids were going nuts. Why does a long, drawn-out, “fired-up” sermon necessarily mean “better”? I prefer a short, packed-with-inspiration homily to a long droning, it-must-be-holy-because-it’s-taking-so-long sermon any day!
Can you not see any beauty in a solemn hymn to God? I love the mysterious sound of a Gregorian Chant. At the Protestant church, there was a band. There were songs (from the Christian radio station often) that our music director foisted on the congregation. Songs that were meant to be sung freely by a soloist. You should have heard the poor congregation trying to stumble through the difficult jumps in notes and odd rhythms. There were some familiar popular songs as well. I never enjoyed the hand-raising, as if one can’t worship God with just the song. No, there had to be that added to “for show” (Look how Christian I am!). And the worst was the few times I made the mistake of sitting in back of this one woman, who was dancing and shaking her big booty to the music. Yuck, did I need to see that?
When I returned to Catholic Mass, I was so inspired by the music I heard. It was so beautiful. Without being a “show-off”. Last Sunday when we were going to communion, we were singing “O Sons and Daughters” (Tune: O Filii Et Filiae), which has a chorus of Alleluias in a minor key. It was so much more spiritually moving to sing that chorus of alleluias and to see solemn, devout people processing to the alter for communion singing this song, than any hand waving or booty-shaking I saw at the Protestant church.
I have listened to Christian radio stations. I know I’m probably not supposed to say anything critical, since these songs are “Praise and Worship” songs to God, but some of the songs are just so sappy and just plain bad. I found myself snapping off the radio in disgust.
I think you are making a big generalization here.
So start one!
Again, very big generalizations.
I would say you should go to Mass again with an open mind. If one can’t praise and worship God without making a big noisy fuss, there’s something wrong there.
Aunt Martha
C
Church_Militant
Guest
Aunt Martha YOU ROCK!
I couldn’t’ve said any of this any better and I appreciate your articulation of my own thoughts. Glory Be To God! :irish1:Pax vobiscum,
R
reggie
Guest
I believe that in the past, the Church has taken membership for granted. If one were Catholic, one tended to stay Catholic and to bring children up Catholic. In the last few decades, Church membership has suffered from the zealous tactics of evangelicals and cults. The Church has been slow to react, but I do see in my parish a better attempt at reaching out to us beyond just the Sunday Mass.
As Catholics, the best thing we can do for our Church is to know it well, practice it faithfully and teach our childrent to love and know Christ through the grace and teachings of Holy Mother Church. For most of us, it is the only evangelizing we will ever do.
But that can be enough, through our children, and every generation after, we build the Church.
When I attend Mass, I do not get bored. I have favorite priests, those I know who will give inspired and edifying sermons, but I know that every time the Word of God is proclaimed, I can learn and grow from it. My heart pounds sometimes during the consecration with the enormity of it all and the holiness of the rituals. I have been moved to tears while singing a beautiful old hymn. I have known them since I was a little girl, and I now understand that many generations before me also knew and loved them. That knowledge links me to all who have gone before, all who join in worship now, and all who will worship in years to come. To me, that is one of the aspects of the communion of saints.
The Mass will only be for you what you make of it. If it is dry, or a duty and you approach it with boredom, it will be all of those things. Approach it knowing that there is no other time when you are so close to Jesus and all of the other members of the church, you. And never forget, that in the US we are so fortunate to be able to worship and receive the Eucharist without threat of harm. Much of our brothers and sisters are dying for that privilege.
This week as I watched them move the body of our beloved John Paul into St. Peter’s Basilica, I cried, but not because of the saddness of his loss. I cried when they began the chant and the Litany of Saints. What beautiful sounds, how profoundly heartening to know that HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of Catholics around the world knew and understood what was being sung, even though most of us do not speak Latin. My heart and soul understood the prayers and at that time, I was in church with all of the world’s Catholics praising God and recommending the soul of JPII to Him. The beauty of the universal church cannot be matched by any well delivered sermon, song or “fellowship”. Like Christ, its head, the church is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.
As Catholics, the best thing we can do for our Church is to know it well, practice it faithfully and teach our childrent to love and know Christ through the grace and teachings of Holy Mother Church. For most of us, it is the only evangelizing we will ever do.
But that can be enough, through our children, and every generation after, we build the Church.
When I attend Mass, I do not get bored. I have favorite priests, those I know who will give inspired and edifying sermons, but I know that every time the Word of God is proclaimed, I can learn and grow from it. My heart pounds sometimes during the consecration with the enormity of it all and the holiness of the rituals. I have been moved to tears while singing a beautiful old hymn. I have known them since I was a little girl, and I now understand that many generations before me also knew and loved them. That knowledge links me to all who have gone before, all who join in worship now, and all who will worship in years to come. To me, that is one of the aspects of the communion of saints.
The Mass will only be for you what you make of it. If it is dry, or a duty and you approach it with boredom, it will be all of those things. Approach it knowing that there is no other time when you are so close to Jesus and all of the other members of the church, you. And never forget, that in the US we are so fortunate to be able to worship and receive the Eucharist without threat of harm. Much of our brothers and sisters are dying for that privilege.
This week as I watched them move the body of our beloved John Paul into St. Peter’s Basilica, I cried, but not because of the saddness of his loss. I cried when they began the chant and the Litany of Saints. What beautiful sounds, how profoundly heartening to know that HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of Catholics around the world knew and understood what was being sung, even though most of us do not speak Latin. My heart and soul understood the prayers and at that time, I was in church with all of the world’s Catholics praising God and recommending the soul of JPII to Him. The beauty of the universal church cannot be matched by any well delivered sermon, song or “fellowship”. Like Christ, its head, the church is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.
C
catholic-rcia
Guest
This was part of a Homily given at our Parish a few months ago.
Not upbeat!
About how we only bury sinners in our church.
Joe Rastoni’s brother dies from complications due to a bullet through the heart. He and his brother have led the Italian mafia in New York for thirty two years. Joe goes to his Parish Priest and asks for a Catholic Funeral. The Priest looks at Joe and says “no! Your brother was one of the worst human beings to ever walk the face of the earth. He murdered, he dealt in drugs, and never once attended a Mass with the passion of Christ in his heart. I cannot do this”, he said. Joe offers the Priest, Father O’Reilly, 5OO thousand dollars to give his brother this funeral. Father O’Reilly says that “no amount of money will change my mind”. Joe then offers him 700 hundred thousand dollars and buys a Catholic Priest as he says, “ok!”. Then Joe tells him that he must also call his brother a Saint when the Priest gets up to offer the eulogy. The Priest says, “I am sorry Joe but you have already asked me to do quite enough.” Joe offers the Priest 300 hundred thousand more. Father O’Reilly says, “ok I will call your brother a Saint.”
With over five hundred attending Father O’Reilly begins his eulogy, “Vincent Rastoni, what can I say about Vincent? He was the worst scum that this earth has ever seen. He was a murdering thug that cared about no one. He dealt in drugs and ruined countless of lives. He gives filth a bad name. But, and I add but compared to his brother Joe sitting right over there he was a Saint!”
Not upbeat!
About how we only bury sinners in our church.
Joe Rastoni’s brother dies from complications due to a bullet through the heart. He and his brother have led the Italian mafia in New York for thirty two years. Joe goes to his Parish Priest and asks for a Catholic Funeral. The Priest looks at Joe and says “no! Your brother was one of the worst human beings to ever walk the face of the earth. He murdered, he dealt in drugs, and never once attended a Mass with the passion of Christ in his heart. I cannot do this”, he said. Joe offers the Priest, Father O’Reilly, 5OO thousand dollars to give his brother this funeral. Father O’Reilly says that “no amount of money will change my mind”. Joe then offers him 700 hundred thousand dollars and buys a Catholic Priest as he says, “ok!”. Then Joe tells him that he must also call his brother a Saint when the Priest gets up to offer the eulogy. The Priest says, “I am sorry Joe but you have already asked me to do quite enough.” Joe offers the Priest 300 hundred thousand more. Father O’Reilly says, “ok I will call your brother a Saint.”
With over five hundred attending Father O’Reilly begins his eulogy, “Vincent Rastoni, what can I say about Vincent? He was the worst scum that this earth has ever seen. He was a murdering thug that cared about no one. He dealt in drugs and ruined countless of lives. He gives filth a bad name. But, and I add but compared to his brother Joe sitting right over there he was a Saint!”
K
kyle8921
Guest
To be honest with you all, many teens like me can’t stand the modernization of churches. I see my church as a place where I can escape the media and the rush of society. A place where I can really communicate with God. If wanted to see skateboarders or a screeching guitar I’d do the same stuff I do every day. It doesn’t belong in church.
And about youth groups…
Many teens join them for the wrong reasons.
And I like our Catholic Hymns! I hope they don’t change.
And about youth groups…
Many teens join them for the wrong reasons.
And I like our Catholic Hymns! I hope they don’t change.
J
jeffjuls
Guest
Thanks for all of your feedback to my question!
OK, OK, I admit it….I’m actually a die hard evangelical orthodox Catholic. I’ve been Catholic all my life and am passionately in love with Christ and His Church – now more than ever. I’m in the front row of mass with my family every week – so my kids can see. I teach 2nd grade catechism and lead kid’s Eucharistic adoration once a month. My wife is expecting our fifth child. I love Catholic worship in all its forms, from ancient hymn to soulful singing to high mass. I’ve been a long-time member of four local parishes and attended mass in easily 20 others. I was also a Young Life leader for over 5 years and have counseled dozens of kids at dozens of camps.
My question was, and is, purposefully antagonistic: How can the overwhelming majority of my fellow American Catholics receive Christ Himself each week in the Eucharist and then fail to ACT on their faith and the grace of Christ? If we are receiving Christ worthily, then we should becoming more holy each week and the Holy Spirit should be knocking down the doors of everyone’s heart to fulfill Christ’s and Our Holy Father’s call to evangelization – in all of its many forms. Since that is not happening, at least not in my local parishes, I fear for the worst that actually the overwhelming majority of Catholics are receiving Christ unworthily – thus, very limited fruit and a very scary thought in light of Scripture’s warnings about this.
This very CA Answers website points to the power of a motivated Christian with a protestant training for evangelization acting on the truth of Catholic theology. It’s no coincidence that Scott Hahn, an ex-Protestant, is furiously writing Catholic Bible studies to help us all become Bible Catholics. Alex Jones, a passionate evangelical turned Catholic, sold out his tapes and CDs in one day at the last Catholic Family Conference I attended and his talks were jam packed with the faithful hungry for someone to motivate them to SPEAK UP and ACT on their faith.
Any Catholic parent of young kids will tell you that they usually have to drag their kids protesting to go to mass because, according to them, it is soooooo boring. Unfortunately, many, many adults have catechesis that stopped somewhere in elementary school and probably have a similar experience. I think the largest denomination in North America is not Catholic but actually ex-Catholic. This is a tragedy! Theology and intellect alone does not reach the vast majority – you have to speak to the heart as well as the head. An encounter with Christ is a full body experience. Great worship music, regardless of the flavor, helps open our hearts and minds. Passionate, motivated speakers can light a fire in us. Scriptural exegesis enlightens us.
My bottom line is this: I want all my kids (and everyone else) to have a passion and enthusiasm for their faith and to know in their minds and heart that Jesus is real and really there in the Eucharist. When my kids are very young they take my word for it, but as they grow older and start to think things thru for themselves they need a relationship and an experience of Christ to ground the theological knowledge they have been getting.
Does that make sense? I guess in a nutshell I’m looking for feedback on the few key things needed to light a fire under a parish to fan the flames of their hearts so I can give my kids an exposure to a contagious Catholic faith.
Thanks for your feedback.
OK, OK, I admit it….I’m actually a die hard evangelical orthodox Catholic. I’ve been Catholic all my life and am passionately in love with Christ and His Church – now more than ever. I’m in the front row of mass with my family every week – so my kids can see. I teach 2nd grade catechism and lead kid’s Eucharistic adoration once a month. My wife is expecting our fifth child. I love Catholic worship in all its forms, from ancient hymn to soulful singing to high mass. I’ve been a long-time member of four local parishes and attended mass in easily 20 others. I was also a Young Life leader for over 5 years and have counseled dozens of kids at dozens of camps.
My question was, and is, purposefully antagonistic: How can the overwhelming majority of my fellow American Catholics receive Christ Himself each week in the Eucharist and then fail to ACT on their faith and the grace of Christ? If we are receiving Christ worthily, then we should becoming more holy each week and the Holy Spirit should be knocking down the doors of everyone’s heart to fulfill Christ’s and Our Holy Father’s call to evangelization – in all of its many forms. Since that is not happening, at least not in my local parishes, I fear for the worst that actually the overwhelming majority of Catholics are receiving Christ unworthily – thus, very limited fruit and a very scary thought in light of Scripture’s warnings about this.
This very CA Answers website points to the power of a motivated Christian with a protestant training for evangelization acting on the truth of Catholic theology. It’s no coincidence that Scott Hahn, an ex-Protestant, is furiously writing Catholic Bible studies to help us all become Bible Catholics. Alex Jones, a passionate evangelical turned Catholic, sold out his tapes and CDs in one day at the last Catholic Family Conference I attended and his talks were jam packed with the faithful hungry for someone to motivate them to SPEAK UP and ACT on their faith.
Any Catholic parent of young kids will tell you that they usually have to drag their kids protesting to go to mass because, according to them, it is soooooo boring. Unfortunately, many, many adults have catechesis that stopped somewhere in elementary school and probably have a similar experience. I think the largest denomination in North America is not Catholic but actually ex-Catholic. This is a tragedy! Theology and intellect alone does not reach the vast majority – you have to speak to the heart as well as the head. An encounter with Christ is a full body experience. Great worship music, regardless of the flavor, helps open our hearts and minds. Passionate, motivated speakers can light a fire in us. Scriptural exegesis enlightens us.
My bottom line is this: I want all my kids (and everyone else) to have a passion and enthusiasm for their faith and to know in their minds and heart that Jesus is real and really there in the Eucharist. When my kids are very young they take my word for it, but as they grow older and start to think things thru for themselves they need a relationship and an experience of Christ to ground the theological knowledge they have been getting.
Does that make sense? I guess in a nutshell I’m looking for feedback on the few key things needed to light a fire under a parish to fan the flames of their hearts so I can give my kids an exposure to a contagious Catholic faith.
Thanks for your feedback.
C
Catholic_Dude
Guest
Cool, I didnt write all that stuff for nothing. At the same time I dont see how some of your “questions/accusation” in the opening post correspond to what you just said.
J
jeffjuls
Guest
I’m hoping that the answers to my question will help me better understand what is missing from my parish and how to better encourage my Catholic brothers to evangelization.
A
AuntMartha
Guest
Is the only way to act on one’s faith and become holy by evangelization? Nothing else counts?
I think leading by example is a very good way to lead others to the Catholic Church. The behavior of four Catholic friends of mine over the years has done so much to interest me in giving the Catholic Church a second look. If they had come up to me and evangilized, I would not have been open to that. Some people get extremely turned off by a well-meaning but over-zealous evangelization and are driven further away than they would have ordinarily been.
And this doesn’t happen to Protestant parents and kids either? Think again.
Begin with yourself then. Stop pining over at the green, green grass at the Protestant church next door and trying to change the Catholic Church into an imitation of what you see there. Kids are perceptive - if they can sense that you are not “on fire” for your own faith, they won’t be either. If they can tell you are bored every Sunday at Mass, they will be too. If they don’t hear you praising the beauty of a worshipping God in a Catholic Mass, they won’t find it beautiful either.
Aunt Martha
R
rjs1
Guest
Jeffjuls,
You have raised some important points that others are commenting on but one issue you mentioned I feel obliged to reply to - the music of the Catholic Church.
In Protestant churches you will find a lot of “bouncy, happy clappy” type of music in which the congregation certainly appear to be participating. However if you allow yourself to understand and be absorbed by the Gregorian chant, Pallestrina and Mozart masses etc. of the long rich history of Catholic worship you will find that they lift the soul to a reflection of the worship of Almighty God in Heaven as it is described to us in Scripture. Our participation is by BEING THERE, by letting our hearts lift that worship to God. This is not a superficial, external participation but a deep participation of the heart and soul.
Scholars now believe that in the Jewish worship of Old Testament times the whole service was chanted including all the Scripture readings. It is on this chant that the Gregorian chant is based.So the traditional Catholic music is, in fact, far more scriptural and “heavenly” than the apparently upbeat concert hall type music of many Protestant (and too many modern Catholic) churches.
I do agree however that when it comes to singing the hymns during Mass we Catholics need to put more effort into it!
You have raised some important points that others are commenting on but one issue you mentioned I feel obliged to reply to - the music of the Catholic Church.
In Protestant churches you will find a lot of “bouncy, happy clappy” type of music in which the congregation certainly appear to be participating. However if you allow yourself to understand and be absorbed by the Gregorian chant, Pallestrina and Mozart masses etc. of the long rich history of Catholic worship you will find that they lift the soul to a reflection of the worship of Almighty God in Heaven as it is described to us in Scripture. Our participation is by BEING THERE, by letting our hearts lift that worship to God. This is not a superficial, external participation but a deep participation of the heart and soul.
Scholars now believe that in the Jewish worship of Old Testament times the whole service was chanted including all the Scripture readings. It is on this chant that the Gregorian chant is based.So the traditional Catholic music is, in fact, far more scriptural and “heavenly” than the apparently upbeat concert hall type music of many Protestant (and too many modern Catholic) churches.
I do agree however that when it comes to singing the hymns during Mass we Catholics need to put more effort into it!
D
deb1
Guest
Well…as someone coming from a protestant background-my mom’s Baptist, as was her mom and her mom…I can assure you that this is a problem in Protestant churches as well. Teenagers don’t want to get out of bed on a Sunday morning and spend an hour sitting in an uncomfortable pew. It doesn’t matter what denomination that they are in.
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