Catholics Stand Up And Attack

[Apologia100]

1 Peter 3:15-16:

Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence; and keep your conscience clear, so that, when you are abused, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.

Remember, an apologist’s strength flows from the Holy Spirit. But beware. Aggression, pride, hatred, disrespect, condemnation, and resentment; from the dark side are they. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Do not underestimate Satan’s powers to corrupt, or you will suffer the fate of Luther, Tertullian, and others. Pride is an unpredictable ally. Sometimes he fights for you, sometimes he turns on you. Humility is a powerful ally, because it allows the Spirit to work through you. For a long time I have trained people in the ways of Apologetics. Debate, arguementation, attack; an apologist does not crave these things. You are reckless.

 

[shannin]

]We don’t have to attack, we don’t have to defend; that’s the job of the Holy Spirit. Christ will be with the Church even to the end of the world and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.



I think the answer is to live our faith and let the Holy Spirit shine through us (which sometimes is hard for me to do).

My daughter & her husband just joined a so-called “bible church” and believe me, it’s so hard not to attack some of these sola-scriptura beliefs, but I’ve learned that it doesn’t do any good. It’s heart-breaking to have your daughter turn against the Church, but I’ve decided to: (1) strengthen my own faith; (2) calmly explain the Catholic faith when I have the opportunity; (3) pray; and (4) let the Holy Spirit take over.


Shannin

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Apologia100:

Remember, an apologist’s strength flows from the Holy Spirit. But beware. Aggression, pride, hatred, disrespect, condemnation, and resentment; from the dark side are they. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Do not underestimate Satan’s powers to corrupt, or you will suffer the fate of Luther, Tertullian, and others. Pride is an unpredictable ally. Sometimes he fights for you, sometimes he turns on you. Humility is a powerful ally, because it allows the Spirit to work through you. For a long time I have trained people in the ways of Apologetics. Debate, arguementation, attack; an apologist does not crave these things. You are reckless.

Thanks for the lecture, Master Yoda.

 

[AnnaRose]

Reading these apologetic posts have been interesting. …but, I have to laugh because it most certainly doesn’t help me to want to be a Catholic!!!

Religion is to be practiced…not argued.

Fr. B. Groeschel said recently…“be the best Catholic that you can be”.

If you want someone to turn to the Catholic faith…simply pray for them…let God handle it…He can handle anything!!

Yes, you should know how to answer certain ques. from non-catholics, but arguing just turns people OFF.

Go to daily mass and talk it over with Jesus. He’ll show you the way. (sounds familiar, doesn’t it? …Jesus says I am the way, the truth, etc. …)

Have a nice spring day everyone.

 

[Ignatius]

marineboy:

ITS AM HOW YOU PEOPLE CREATE STRAW A ARGUMENTS–I AID ATTACK UNTRUTHS—WHICH OBVIOUSLY MEANS TO, AS I SAID IN MY ORIGINAL POST, PRESENT THE QUESTION TOT HE PROTESTANT --c’mon people stop with these straw man attacks–and to the clown who said —no offense but that was a stupid statement–

Sorry, but I still stand by my original statement:

We don’t have to attack, we don’t have to defend; that’s the job of the Holy Spirit. Christ will be with the Church “even unto the end of the world and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

 

[marineboy]

All I said was at times we need to “attack” and say where others are wrong—we have the fullness of truth–so by definition all other eligions are wrong in some way—I am labled as using the “jerk approach” becauie i said we should not beafraind to go up to others-of course within reason-- and ask them a question about their religion—OMG HOW TERRIBLE OF ME!!!–YOU PEOPLE KEEP CREATING YOUR OWN ARGUMENTS THE YOU REFUTE THEM–YOU HAVNT REFUTED ANYTHING I SAID—IN DEFENDING THE FAITH (I EXPLAINED THIS EARLIER) YOU “ATTACK” BY SAYING WHERE THE OTHER SIDE IS WRONG!! PAY ATTENTION!!! THE STATEMNT TO “WE DONT HAVE TO DEFEND OR ATTACK–JUST PRAY” IS DOWN RIGHT STUPID–AND ANTI CATHOLIC–WE ARE CALLED TO EVANGELIZE AND CONVERT

 

[mark_a]

marineboy:

All I said was at times we need to “attack” and say where others are wrong—we have the fullness of truth–so by definition all other eligions are wrong in some way—I am labled as using the “jerk approach” becauie i said we should not beafraind to go up to others-of course within reason-- and ask them a question about their religion—OMG HOW TERRIBLE OF ME!!!–YOU PEOPLE KEEP CREATING YOUR OWN ARGUMENTS THE YOU REFUTE THEM–YOU HAVNT REFUTED ANYTHING I SAID—IN DEFENDING THE FAITH (I EXPLAINED THIS EARLIER) YOU “ATTACK” BY SAYING WHERE THE OTHER SIDE IS WRONG!! PAY ATTENTION!!! THE STATEMNT TO “WE DONT HAVE TO DEFEND OR ATTACK–JUST PRAY” IS DOWN RIGHT STUPID–AND ANTI CATHOLIC–WE ARE CALLED TO EVANGELIZE AND CONVERT

Just a question-

Where does the expression “We are called to evangelize and convert” come from?

 

[Asimis]

YES! KILL THE IDIOTS! BURN THE INFIDELS!! BRING BACK THAT HOT CAULDRON, MAKE THEM CRAWL!! THE HERETICS ARE ATTACKING!! THE BLASPHEMERS! WE MUST ELIMINATE THEM!!

marineboy:

OMG HOW TERRIBLE OF ME!!!–YOU PEOPLE KEEP CREATING YOUR OWN ARGUMENTS THE YOU REFUTE THEM–YOU HAVNT REFUTED ANYTHING I SAID—IN DEFENDING THE FAITH (I EXPLAINED THIS EARLIER) YOU “ATTACK” BY SAYING WHERE THE OTHER SIDE IS WRONG!! PAY ATTENTION!!! THE STATEMNT TO “WE DONT HAVE TO DEFEND OR ATTACK–JUST PRAY” IS DOWN RIGHT STUPID–AND ANTI CATHOLIC–WE ARE CALLED TO EVANGELIZE AND CONVERT

There is no need to use so many all caps to convey your message. We all get what you are saying. Persoally I agree with you, that we should do “active” evangelization and start showing others their errors while at the same time exposing the truth of Catholicism (with prudence of course).

So, where do you think we should start? we need first of al to check ourselves and see if WE are actually following The Church OURSELVES and THEN we start looking at how others are doing. So, how are YOU doing?

 

[Asimis]

mark a:

Just a question-

Where does the expression “We are called to evangelize and convert” come from?

We are commanded by Jesus himself to preach the Gospel to all nations and to make deciples from them and to baptize them.

 

[mark_a]

Asimis:

We are commanded by Jesus himself to preach the Gospel to all nations and to make deciples from them and to baptize them.

Does the expression include other christians? Seems that Jesus’ words would not have likely included other christians.

 

[challenger]

Wait. What’s wrong with Tertullian?

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

challenger:

Wait. What’s wrong with Tertullian?

Short bio;

Tertullian: Roman theologian and Christian apologist, b. Carthage. He was the son of a centurion and was well educated, especially in law. Converted to Christianity c.197, he became the most formidable defender of the faith in his day. His Latin is vigorous and effective and reflects his juridical training. Sentences of his that have become proverbial are “The blood of martyrs is the seed of the church,” and “It is certain because it is impossible” (often quoted incorrectly as “I believe it because it is impossible”). Some of Tertullian’s opinions differed from the main stream of Christian thought, particularly his more rigorous view of sin and its forgiveness. After long defending the Montanists**, he left the church in 213 to join them; he later established his own sect, known as Tertullianists. **This last bit is what is wrong with Tertullian.

Montanism: apocalyptic movement of the 2nd century. It arose in Phrygia (c.172) under the leadership of Montanus and two female prophets, Prisca and Maximillia, who were deemed oracles of the Holy Spirit. They had an immediate expectation of Judgment Day, and they encouraged ecstatic prophesying and strict asceticism. They believed that a Christian fallen from grace could never be redeemed, in opposition to the Catholic view that, since the sinner’s contrition restored him to grace, the church must receive him again. Montanism antagonized the church because the sect claimed a superior authority arising from divine inspiration. Catholics were told that they should flee persecution, Montanists were told to seek it. When the Montanists began to set up a hierarchy of their own, the Catholic leaders, fearing to lose the cohesion essential to the survivial of persecuted Christianity, denounced the movement.

(all references are from the Columbia Encyclopedia)

 

[catholic2]

Your name got my attention. If you are a real “teufel hunden” you remind me of that Lt. who said to his men under fire as he jumped from cover to attack, “Do you want to live forever?” Or that Gen. Chesty Puller who being surrounded by the enemy in Korea said “They’re on the right of us, the left of us, in front of us and behind us. They can’t get away from us now.” They’re all over you, boy.

But basically, I agree with you. We should go and evangelize and convert. We should be agressive. But we have to be prepared and watch our tactics. Know your enemy, equip yourself and then go for it. Other times, some subtlety is called for, something like preparing boobytraps and attacking in another direction. (remember Marines never retreat, they just attack in another direction?).

You have scripture backing up your approach. When Jesus said to Peter that the gates of hell shall not prevail against His Church, He did not advocate a passive approach. (Mat. 16:18)

The Apostles were martyred not because they were nice guys and neither was Jesus.

Gung Ho!

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

catholic2:

You have scripture backing up your approach. When Jesus said to Peter that the gates of hell shall not prevail against His Church, He did not advocate a passive approach. (Mat. 16:18)

The Apostles were martyred not because they were nice guys and neither was Jesus.

Gung Ho!

Semper Fi - Oo-Rah. I am not disagreeing that the Gospel must be spread aggressively. But Peter, you know, the one that Jesus called the Rock in Matthew 16:18, said in his first letter “always be ready to give an account for yout hope, but do it with gentleness and respect. Keep your conscience clear, so that when you are insulted, those who speak evil of your good conduct as followers of Christ will be put to shame.”

Also, Jesus and the Apostles were killed for their message, not whether they were nice or not. Their disposition was irrelevant, they were killed because they would not put up with the hypocricy of the Pharisees.

 

[catholic2]

Righteous anger was not foreign to Jesus and His followers did likewise. Scripture certainly points this out with Jesus calling people insulting names and acting out in anger. But He was also merciful to those who would recieve Him even crying. To those who would not follow Him, He instructed his followers to shake the dust from their feet on them. If you weren’t for Him you were against Him. Pretty intolerant. This is one aspect of Jesus that is not stressed, and when He comes again, He will come in Judgement and wage war in righteousness (rev.19:11)

Get em, marineboy.

 

[john654]

Righteous anger was not foreign to Jesus and His followers did likewise. Scripture certainly points this out with Jesus calling people insulting names and acting out in anger. But He was also merciful to those who would recieve Him even crying. To those who would not follow Him, He instructed his followers to shake the dust from their feet on them. If you weren’t for Him you were against Him. Pretty intolerant. This is one aspect of Jesus that is not stressed, and when He comes again, He will come in Judgement and wage war in righteousness (rev.19:11)

Get em, marineboy.

That’s what I think.

John

 

[AlanFromWichita]

AnnaRose:

Reading these apologetic posts have been interesting. …but, I have to laugh because it most certainly doesn’t help me to want to be a Catholic!!!

Religion is to be practiced…not argued.

But AnnaRose,

The Word is a two edge sword. Some of us just like to use the cutting and decimation edge rather than the healing edge.

The cutting and decimation edge is the fun part because we get to feel like we’re really actively doing something by swashbuckling than by listening and trying to understand others. It’s easier to see where we’ve been, too, when we’ve cut the path this way than to try to witness the subtle effects of healing due to kindness.

Fr. B. Groeschel said recently…“be the best Catholic that you can be”.

If you want someone to turn to the Catholic faith…simply pray for them…let God handle it…He can handle anything!!

Oh, boy. You went and did it now. You are suggesting we might actually get some faith!

Yes, you should know how to answer certain ques. from non-catholics, but arguing just turns people OFF.

Very true. Also I don’t think it’s a sin of omission if one does it with the approach, “that’s an interesting way to look at it. As Catholics we look at it another way” instead of "omigod I can’t believe you actually believe that; let me fix your thinking problem right here and now.

I really like the comments Apologia100 made about apologetics. If only there were more apologist wannabes that thought like this, we might all be able to reduce our anxiety a little.

Go to daily mass and talk it over with Jesus. He’ll show you the way. (sounds familiar, doesn’t it? …Jesus says I am the way, the truth, etc. …)

There you go again, bringing Jesus into this…

Have a nice spring day everyone.

Thank you.

Alan