Catholics that dont like Catholic teaching

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Tantum_ergo said:
Kariane, I was taught by the nuns (starting in 1962) and I don’t recall hearing that non-Catholics were going to hell. Neither did my 5 years’ older sister have that teaching. Maybe it was our location (Philadelphia)? I was told by one forum poster that he was taught in St. Louis in the 60s that non Catholics went to hell, Catholics really worship the Virgin Mary, etc. so maybe you were just in an area of bad catechesis?

And BTW I used my mind (I still do 😃 )even at 50, and I didn’t just ‘glom’ onto the teachings and accept them ‘unthinkingingly’. I find it rather presumptious that you assume that those of us who obey do so out of sloth, or stupidity, rather than that we have utilized our reason and, especially BECAUSE we use our reason, obey Church teachings.
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I went to Catholic Schools from 1952 thru 1959, maybe things were different for you younger folks!
As to your second point, I remain presumptuous and unconvinced.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Kariane, I was taught by the nuns (starting in 1962) and I don’t recall hearing that non-Catholics were going to hell. Neither did my 5 years’ older sister have that teaching. Maybe it was our location (Philadelphia)? I was told by one forum poster that he was taught in St. Louis in the 60s that non Catholics went to hell, Catholics really worship the Virgin Mary, etc. so maybe you were just in an area of bad catechesis?
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This was published in 1927 in the USA:

THINGS CATHOLICS ARE
ASKED ABOUT
It must be distinctly noted that it is said that “they who of their own fault fail to belong to her cannot be saved.” God is the sole judge of this matter. It may happen that persons born and educated in non-Catholic sects are in good faith in their belief. These, if they lead sinless lives, and have the will to belong to the true Church of Christ, are within the pale of the Church belonging to her in spirit, if not outwardly. God is the sole judge as to whether or not they are in good faith. The influence of environment and education may so affect people that they live on in ignorance that they are in error. This is termed invincible ignorance by theologians, and it saves from culpable error those who are in its grip.
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Karianne said:
I went to Catholic Schools from 1952 thru 1959, maybe things were different for you younger folks!
As to your second point, I remain presumptuous and unconvinced.
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I am sorry you had a poor experience of catechism. Without regard to what you were taught, the information as to what the Church taught and teaches is available on line, in print and by word of mouth. The teaching that non catholics automatically went to hell has never at anytime been a part of Catholic theology.
It is so easy always to blame our misunderstandings of church teaching on what some silly nun or priest said or even at times something our parents said which was not true. Fortunately, these days there are no excuses left for ignorance of Catholic theology. Bottom line: Catholicism from it’s inception has been a religion of hope for Catholic or non catholic alike.
 
Cranch said:
Nice to meet you, too.😦
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I’m sorry, that was harsh and tradition dictates that we should be nicer at this time of year and I certainly didn’t sound nice.
Here’s my problem, someone wrote the term "cafeteria catholic’ and to me, that implied that because I don’t agree with my Church on certain teachings that I am less Catholic than they are.

I don’t like that.

My disagreements are well thought out and I am at peace with them-and I take umbrage with the idea that someone gets to name call me.
So, I was set off by that term, and I know full well that Mother Angelica uses it, and I don’t like hearing it from her either.

The Church changes it mind from time to time, look at the altar girl thing if you don’t believe me! And our history, our Church history at least, contains certain things that should keep ALL Catholics humble, (thinking of the Inquisition, here).

I guess that I don’t see a lot of humility from certain posters and so I followed their example instead of setting a good one of my own.

Sorry, again.
 
tequilamac said:
I am sorry you had a poor experience of catechism. Without regard to what you were taught, the information as to what the Church taught and teaches is available on line, in print and by word of mouth. The teaching that non catholics automatically went to hell has never at anytime been a part of Catholic theology.
It is so easy always to blame our misunderstandings of church teaching on what some silly nun or priest said or even at times something our parents said which was not true. Fortunately, these days there are no excuses left for ignorance of Catholic theology. Bottom line: Catholicism from it’s inception has been a religion of hope for Catholic or non catholic alike.
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Ok, thanks for your post, but I would also like to say that the sisters who taught me were terrific women, dedicated beyond measure to their craft and a good example to me.
They taught what they believed to be true, and even though they were wrong, they were wonderful people.
 
Karianne said:
I’m sorry, that was harsh and tradition dictates that we should be nicer at this time of year and I certainly didn’t sound nice.
Here’s my problem, someone wrote the term "cafeteria catholic’ and to me, that implied that because I don’t agree with my Church on certain teachings that I am less Catholic than they are.

I don’t like that.

My disagreements are well thought out and I am at peace with them-and I take umbrage with the idea that someone gets to name call me.
So, I was set off by that term, and I know full well that Mother Angelica uses it, and I don’t like hearing it from her either.

The Church changes it mind from time to time, look at the altar girl thing if you don’t believe me! And our history, our Church history at least, contains certain things that should keep ALL Catholics humble, (thinking of the Inquisition, here).

I guess that I don’t see a lot of humility from certain posters and so I followed their example instead of setting a good one of my own.

Sorry, again.
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Perhaps there is something else going on here. Christ and His theology is not determined by the use or non use of altar girls. Usually if some term is being used that is grating on a person, it is probably at least half true. From your hostile responses, I would have to conclude you would rather find fault with the Church than with yourself. A common occurence.
 
. My mother is pro-abortion and part of me wants to scream. yes it’s because of my past and her involvement in my abortion (which, in a nutshell was “You’re getting an abortion and you have no say”)

I am SOooo Sorry that you had to give up your child because your mother failed to support you.
I want to believe that she thought that she was doing her best by you, but she sacrificed a grandchild and that’s terribly hard to take.
Your mother was wrong.
I sincerely hope that you were able to have more children.
You were violated and that makes me very sad.
 
tequilamac said:
Perhaps there is something else going on here. Christ and His theology is not determined by the use or non use of altar girls. Usually if some term is being used that is grating on a person, it is probably at least half true. From your hostile responses, I would have to conclude you would rather find fault with the Church than with yourself. A common occurence.
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No, I find fault, and justly so, with name callers.
 
Karianne said:
No, I find fault, and justly so, with name callers.
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Guess this was meant for me, so here goes.

I said I was not a “caf” Cath. I did not say this person is or is not a caf cath, so no one was name called.

Certainly I am initled to define for MYSELF what I consider to be for myslef what I ought to be called or what would best describe myself if I chose to not adhere to what I must.

If my neighbor tells me hes not a commie., should I feel that he means I am?

Get off the pity party.
 
Karianne said:
No, I find fault, and justly so, with name callers.
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Would you find a discription like this more comforting than a short slogan like cafeteria Catholic?:
…The nature or identity of a Catholic, then, is clear. Its essential feature, over and beyond baptism, is full *communion *with the *Catholic Church, *by which we are *joined to Christ *through the *bonds *of the faith, the sacraments, and the discipline of the Church. Each of these ecclesial bonds should be seen in terms of a link with Christ. Each represents a special encounter with Christ, and a special acceptance of Christ coming to meet us. They are not bonds that fetter us and hamper our movements, but bonds that join us to him, and so set us free.
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Full communion with Christ, therefore, is effected in the Church through: * faith: *because in the Church’s teaching we meet the TRUTH of Christ;
the *sacraments: *because in the Church’s sacraments we meet the GRACE of Christ;
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           discipline: *because in and behind the Church's laws we see and accept the AUTHORITY of Christ.
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Catholics have the power to reject that communion with Christ. They do not have the right to reject it. They may do so; but if they do, they do wrong. And, as we shall now see, they suffer in consequence.
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Particularly and very directly to our point, they do not have the right to “divide” Christ (cf. I Cor 1:13). In other words, they do not have the right to communion with Christ’s life in the Church’s sacraments, if they are not in communion with him - with his Thought and his Will - in her teaching and in her discipline.
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cormacburke.or.ke/book/authority_and_freedom_in_the_church/chapter6.html
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fix said:
Would you find a discription like this more comforting than a short slogan like cafeteria Catholic?:
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I refuse to get into a spitting contest with you regardless of how lofty your words…or your efforts to use the words of others to entice me.
 
Fides et Ratio.

Got Faith? Got Reason? BTW(Got milk? I just ran out)
Put them together= you are going to adhere to the Church (and help me with a recipie)

If you cant then one side of the above equation needs some working on.

There is a recipie for this problem.
 
Karianne said:
I refuse to get into a spitting contest with you regardless of how lofty your words…or your efforts to use the words of others to entice me.
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With all of your Catholic education this is a response unworthy of you.
You have a good deal of energy trying to justify your position yet I have not seen a compelling argument from you to make it clear to all of us how you can rationalize your choices.
 
It is God’s Will that all humans be saved. Unfortunately, since He granted us free will, that is one area in which God will not get his own way. The Church teaches that there will be ‘non-catholics’ in heaven, this is a great mystery to me, but I accept the Church’s teaching. I deeply doubt if there will be any ‘cafeteria Catholics’ in heaven. Satan was cast out of heaven because he rebelled, how can we imagine that Catholics who rebel will not suffer the same fate? And make no mistake, cafeteria Catholics are in rebellion promoting their own opinions over the teaching of the Church.

Marsha
 
Marsha_Adams said:
I deeply doubt if there will be any ‘cafeteria Catholics’ in heaven.
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Whoa, Marsha… leave the ‘deciding who gets into heaven’ business to Jesus. Not even the hierarchy of the Catholic Church would say what you’ve just said!
 
Marsha_Adams said:
It is God’s Will that all humans be saved. Unfortunately, since He granted us free will, that is one area in which God will not get his own way. The Church teaches that there will be ‘non-catholics’ in heaven, this is a great mystery to me, but I accept the Church’s teaching. I deeply doubt if there will be any ‘cafeteria Catholics’ in heaven. Satan was cast out of heaven because he rebelled, how can we imagine that Catholics who rebel will not suffer the same fate? And make no mistake, cafeteria Catholics are in rebellion promoting their own opinions over the teaching of the Church.

Marsha
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Don’t think we can say that cafeteria catholics won’t be in Heaven Marsha. In fact, the good news of the Gospel is this in bold:

Since in reality only those reach heaven who die in the state of justification or sanctifying grace, all these and only these are numbered among the predestined, strictly so called. From this it follows that we must reckon among them also all children who die in baptismal grace, as well as those adults who, after a life stained with sin, are converted on their death-beds. The same is true of the numerous predestined who, though outside the pale of the true Church of Christ, yet depart from this life in the state of grace as catechumens, Protestants in good faith, schismatics, Jews, Mahommedans, and pagans. Those fortunate Catholics who at the close of a long life are still clothed in their baptismal innocence, or who after many relapses into mortal sin persevere till the end, are not indeed predestined more firmly, but are more signally favoured than the last-named categories of persons. newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm

Oh, it is just soooooo unfair. God always takes such a hopeful bent.👍 Not only do the cafeteria types get into heaven but :eek: :eek: they may be more highly favored!
 
Is it God who decides who will be saved and who will be lost? Or is it us. If I choose disobedience, and persist in that choice, can God save me against my will? If I willfully choose to accept some of the Church’s teachings and to ignore others, what hope is there for my salvation?

Yet when I come right out and say bluntly that I doubt that those who exalt their opinions above the teachings of the Church will be saved, everyone gets excited and rebukes me. I do not understand this.

Marsha
 
I thought I’d find some light here . . . ha! Nothing but discord, disunity . . . emotional responses . . . memo to myself: Stick with the Church, screwed up as it has been in many matters over the centuries-- except those concerned with faith and morals, that is – in that she speaks with the voice and authority of Christ, this I firmly believe and always will, thank God – or else there is no moral absolute and we are all free to do what each thinks is OK which has spawned the sickening chaos of our time . . . Hang on to that with my fingernails . . .
 
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