Catholics throughout Scotland report sectarianism and anti-Catholic bigotry remain a problem, poll biggest every survey of its kind

[lizardley]

Catholics throughout Scotland reports sectarianism and anti-Catholic bigotry remain a problem, poll biggest every survey of its kind.

The largest ever survey of Scottish Catholics’ attitudes to sectarianism has found that many still believe it to be a serious problem for Scotland. The Conforti Institute’s Anti-Sectarianism Project report finds that many Catholics believe that sectarian bigotry still affects their lives. The listening project details meetings in parishes and other groups with hundreds of Catholics in seven of Scotland’s eight dioceses.

Report: sconews.co.uk/latest-edition/36289/sectarian-scotland/

 

[Vouthon]

And people wonder why I don’t believe that Scotland should become an independent country

 

[wllmjoseph]

And people wonder why I don’t believe that Scotland should become an independent country

Question ? Do you really believe that the sectarian divide in Scotland will get worse if Scotland becomes independent? Who was it that fostered and agitated the sectarian divide between Protestants and Catholics not to mention the sectarian divide between Scotland and Ireland. Oh, that’s right is was England who did that. The sectarian divide seen in Scotland right now is England’s handiwork. I have to tell you that as a Celt I find it particularly offensive that Celtic Ireland or Scotland needs to have Anglo Saxon England as a minder. The United Kingdom has outlived both it’s purpose and usefulness.

Even if Scotland does not vote for independence this time it is only a mater of time before the proud Celtic people of Scotland become independent. Northern Ireland is also lost. In the next 10 to 12 years there will be a strong Nationalist majority in Northern Ireland and Ireland will become one. The UK will be relegated to England and Wales.

 

[tabycat]

Question ? Do you really believe that the sectarian divide in Scotland will get worse if Scotland becomes independent? Who was it that fostered and agitated the sectarian divide between Protestants and Catholics not to mention the sectarian divide between Scotland and Ireland. Oh, that’s right is was England who did that. The sectarian divide seen in Scotland right now is England’s handiwork. I have to tell you that as a Celt I find it particularly offensive that Celtic Ireland or Scotland needs to have Anglo Saxon England as a minder. The United Kingdom has outlived both it’s purpose and usefulness.

Even if Scotland does not vote for independence this time it is only a mater of time before the proud Celtic people of Scotland become independent. Northern Ireland is also lost. In the next 10 to 12 years there will be a strong Nationalist majority in Northern Ireland and Ireland will become one. The UK will be relegated to England and Wales.

I agree. I’ve been saying that England should have been kicked out of Ireland and Scotland at least 400 to 800 years ago. :irish1::shamrock2:

 

[Vouthon]

Question ? Do you really believe that the sectarian divide in Scotland will get worse if Scotland becomes independent? Who was it that fostered and agitated the sectarian divide between Protestants and Catholics not to mention the sectarian divide between Scotland and Ireland. Oh, that’s right is was England who did that. The sectarian divide seen in Scotland right now is England’s handiwork. I have to tell you that as a Celt I find it particularly offensive that Celtic Ireland or Scotland needs to have Anglo Saxon England as a minder. The United Kingdom has outlived both it’s purpose and usefulness.

Even if Scotland does not vote for independence this time it is only a mater of time before the proud Celtic people of Scotland become independent. Northern Ireland is also lost. In the next 10 to 12 years there will be a strong Nationalist majority in Northern Ireland and Ireland will become one. The UK will be relegated to England and Wales.

Firstly, any Catholic who has a family history in Scotland stretching back centuries like mine (Highland Catholics on one side of my family with no relation to Ireland, while I have Irish and German on the other) will tell you that it is Presbyterianism that they have found to be far more sectarian than Anglicanism. When anti-Catholicism started to fade in England with the rise of the Oxford Movement in the 19th century, with intellectuals such as Blessed John Henry Newman, Catholics and Anglicans could find considerable common ground. The Church of England retained many Catholic beliefs and rituals, to the extent that Benedict XVI was open about his great respect for Anglican heritage.

The Church of Scotland on the other hand has traditionally seen Catholicism as the foe, owing to it not having any episcopacy, its lack of ritual, its strong belief in Calvinist doctrines such as predestination, total depravity and the pervading influence of John Knox and his militancy. There is not much in common at all either superficially or intrinsically between Calvinism and Catholicism.

There is no such thing as “Celtic peoples”.

The “Celtic” identity is a myth. Scottish Nationalism, despite my reservations about it, does not rest upon ethnic, ‘Celtic’ grounds but on purely political and civic ones, to its credit I might add.

The British state, rather than being founded on phony ethnic national grounds, is founded on a much more stable and enduring basis like the American one: a civic nationalism or constitutional patriotism which unites citizens via common values and institutions (the monarchy, parliament, our age long civil liberties first enshrined under the Bill of Rights 1689, the BBC etc.).

I love my country (Scotland) and I am proud of our history and achievements, however I do not subscribe to ethnic nationalism or a “Celtic identity” nor do I admire the Calvinist element of our heritage at least in its strict form.

 

[Vouthon]

I agree. I’ve been saying that England should have been kicked out of Ireland and Scotland at least 400 to 800 years ago. :irish1::shamrock2:

I see Ireland personally as a very different matter from Scotland.

The first king of both England and Scotland, James the son of Mary Queen of Scots, was of course Scottish. Scotland has never been “settled” or “colonized” by the English in the way in which Ireland was (although it should be added that Scots Presbyterians also colonized Ireland! Where do you think we got the delightful Iain Paisley from? The Ulster Scots of which I am also descended in my father’s side: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Scots_people).

Scotland has long retained its only legal and education system.

We are not Ireland and I think it is an error to conflate us under some kind of mythical “victimized by the English” identity, unless one wishes to go as far back in history as William Wallace and Robert the Bruce.

 

[Vouthon]

Even if Scotland does not vote for independence this time it is only a mater of time before the proud Celtic people of Scotland become independent. Northern Ireland is also lost. In the next 10 to 12 years there will be a strong Nationalist majority in Northern Ireland and Ireland will become one. The UK will be relegated to England and Wales.

Given the complexities of Irish history, I have no problem with a Nationalist majority arising in NI and taking it out of the Union. Many people see this as inevitable one day, however Scottish Independence is not the same. A very different history and not the common Celtic “cause” that you simplify it as.

Despite our links - linguistic, cultural etc. - Ireland and Scotland are different countries.

 

[wllmjoseph]

I see Ireland personally as a very different matter from Scotland.

The first king of both England and Scotland, James the son of Mary Queen of Scots, was of course Scottish. Scotland has never been “settled” or “colonized” by the English in the way in which Ireland was (although it should be added that Scots Presbyterians also colonized Ireland! Where do you think we got the delightful Iain Paisley from? The Ulster Scots of which I am also descended in my father’s side: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Scots_people).

Scotland has long retained its only legal and education system.

We are not Ireland and I think it is an error to conflate us under some kind of mythical “victimized by the English” identity, unless one wishes to go as far back in history as William Wallace and Robert the Bruce.

Disclaimer. I have a B.A. from Hofstra University with a major in History. When you state that Scotland was never “settled” or colonized by the English in the way in which Ireland was. Are you serious. The Catholics of NI were forced on their land and England used “re-settled” Scots onto Irish land. That was England that did that not Scotland.

What I really find amazing is the claim that that Anglican Church was not as sectarian as the Presbyterian Church. It was the Anglican English law makers and politicians who made the practice of Catholicism illegal. When the Catholics Churches were seized in Ireland they became the property of the Church of Ireland which was an Anglican denomination church set up by England.

For someone who is of Highland Scottish ancestry is is outrageous to marginalize the persecution that they suffered as part of the UK. Oh, by the way, Who was it that agitated and flamed the Sectarian divide between Scotland & Ireland?