Catholics to exclude church tax dodgers

[Elizium23]

Did you read the link to the Catholic News Service article on my post? It seems to disagree with your assessment.

“WARSAW, Poland (CNS) – The German bishops’ conference defended a controversial decree that said Catholics who stop paying a church membership tax cannot receive sacraments.”

The article in its entirety, with quotes from clergy, supports my contention. That sentence in itself is confusing and inaccurate. Perhaps it is an editorial oversight. I stand by my statements. It is not enough merely to fail to pay the tax. Nonpayment will not incur this penalty. In order to qualify, one must make a public renunciation of the Church which entails placing oneself outside the Church. Once one has made a public renunciation, one is freed from the tax by design.

 

[Andre1000]

Leaving formally the Church has nothing to do with leaving the Church, it just means that you will not pay taxes anymore. Formal defection was thrown out of the CIC and you will not be excommunicated anymore.
Typical German bishops, they want that divorced remarried couples are allowed to communion but reject it to someone who does not pay money.
Money for salvation.

 

[Phemie]

Leaving formally the Church has nothing to do with leaving the Church, it just means that you will not pay taxes anymore. Formal defection was thrown out of the CIC and you will not be excommunicated anymore.
Typical German bishops, they want that divorced remarried couples are allowed to communion but reject it to someone who does not pay money.
Money for salvation.

Defection has not been thrown out, what changed is that defection no longer releases you from the obligation to marry according to canonical form. You can still defect, become a heretic or apostate and be excommunicated.

 

[iloveangels]

This would be simony, if it is as the article implies. It is sin to charge or pay for sacraments like the article describes.

Here is the difference. It is a renunciation of the faith, not merely a refusal to pay the church tax. It is again support for a “Formal act of defection” which is controversial and of late, had no juridicial effect in the Church. If someone renounces his faith, then clearly he cannot receive the sacraments. It has little to do with whether he is paying taxes and more to do with his apostasy.

This is a concession to a growing movement in Europe, that of “un-baptism”. European atheists have been demanding for some time that they should have a way to remove themselves completely from Church rolls. Normally, the most the Church will do for someone who makes a formal act of defection is make another notation in their sacramental record. There is no method for destroying records, and rightly so. Baptism itself is an indelible mark on the soul, and ontologically, there is no such thing as “un-baptism”. But here is the Church formalizing a procedure for it, and drawing accusations of simony along with it. Not an ideal situation, IMHO.

Well, Elizium, it looks like they really want the money to fund their projects.

 

[iloveangels]

This would be simony, if it is as the article implies. It is sin to charge or pay for sacraments like the article describes.

Here is the difference. … Baptism itself is an indelible mark on the soul, and ontologically, there is no such thing as “un-baptism”. But here is the Church formalizing a procedure for it, and drawing accusations of simony along with it. Not an ideal situation, IMHO.

Well, Elizium, it looks like these social welfare projects are really, really important to somebody.

Would “render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s” belong here?

Yup.

German bishops defend exclusion of Catholics who stop paying tax
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1204008.htm
Interesting; I was unaware of the tax on German Catholics. One wonders if this contributed to the low attendance at Sunday Mass in Germany. On the trips I have made to Germany, I have always been dismayed by the empty Churches there. They have beautiful large Churches that are basically empty all of the time. I wondered how they could continue to support and maintain these Churches with such low attendance. Apparently this “tax” has kept money flowing in. Maybe this is why people do not attend Mass; they think they support the Church through the tax and do not have to attend Mass. It sounds like as long as these absent Catholics continue to pay their tax, they will remain Catholics in good standing.

Weird, Catholics in Germany who live their faith but do not pay their tax are booted out while Catholics in America who do not live their faith (or contribute to the support of the Church) are considered Catholics in good standing??? Am I missing something or is something wrong here?

Yup, it’s all messed up.

If you publicly stand up and declare that you are not Catholic to avoid paying the Church tax (Jews & Protestants pay it too) which pays your Pastor’s salary and pays for the upkeep of your parish Church, do you have the right to ask to receive Communion or expect to be married and/or buried by the Church?

You can still be married in the Church under certain conditions, yes, even though you haven’t paid church taxes. And at the end of life, if you are repentant, you can receive sacraments. This is the difference: Up until as late as last month people who didn’t pay their church taxes were being threatened with flat out excommunication. Not now. Now it’s reduced services, even though the government and the church are making noises like they agree with each other. The government is saying you can’t partly resign. It’s really weird. Thank goodness we don’t have this mess in the States.

And I have no idea how they’re going to refuse certain sacraments to anyone. Do you have to bring your tax card every time? Are they really going to check it? Really?

Or are German Catholic congregations so small that they can always tell?