Catholics VS Health Care in America: Morally Embarrassing

[bearer]

Another argumentum ad hominem!

It remains true that it is easy to make excuses for not helping others…

Are you reading this thread? I’m not making excuses for not helping others. I’m saying that WE must help others, not punt medicine to the federal government to mismanage.

Charity begins in the individual’s heart, not in the seat of government.

 

[bearer]

What about the corporal and spiritual works of mercy?

Again, to be performed by the faithful, not bureaucrats.

 

[tonyrey]

Again, to be performed by the faithful, not bureaucrats.

By everyone!

 

[MindOverMatter2]

That is the most pathetic excuse I have ever read on this forum!

Priceless!

 

[tonyrey]

Are you reading this thread?

An irrelevant and discourteous question contrary to the Forum rules.

I’m not making excuses for not helping others. I’m saying that WE must help others, not punt medicine to the federal government to mismanage.

You are assuming there will be sufficient mismanagement to justify not giving help to those who cannot afford it.

Charity begins in the individual’s heart, not in the seat of government.

Charity should not **end **in the individual’s heart. The government is responsible because it represents individuals.

 

[tonyrey]

Jesus was speaking to His disciples, not Caesar.

Aren’t you one of his disciples? Do you have no say in who constitutes the government?

 

[bearer]

By everyone!

Some people, including many in Washington, simply reject the Will of God. Remember that Christ typically addressed the faithful with His Commandments, realizing that the faithless do not heed His Word.

 

[tonyrey]

In any society which does not help its poorest members.

Anywhere whatsoever!

And what do you mean help its poorest members?

Follow Christ’s teaching with works of mercy.

 

[bearer]

An irrelevant and discourteous question contrary to the Forum rules.

You are assuming there will be sufficient mismanagement to justify not giving help to those who cannot afford it.
Charity should not **end **in the individual’s heart. The government is responsible because it represents individuals.

OK, it’s becoming clear that you are a public healthcare fanatic. I hope your zeal for Christ and His Church is greater to that of socialized medicine.

God bless you!

 

[dmelosi]

Aren’t you one of his disciples? Do you have no say in who constitutes the government?

It is absolutely our duty to have a say so in our government as a disciple.

You are not from the U.S., but do you realize how pro abortion our current government is? Do you realize that if Catholics voiced their opinions within their "married to party " that abortion is killing a human life.

Do you realize that the current president argued the infants born alive act, or do you even know what that was?

Health care must be for all, but it seems this argument is about the current Obamacare that was rammed down our throats, abortion and all.

OP, correct me if I am wrong, is it about Obamacare or just about health care for all in general?

 

[dmelosi]

Anywhere whatsoever!

Follow Christ’s teaching with works of mercy.

Let me rephrase…

There is no doubt whatsoever about which is the lesser evil. It’s easy to make excuses for not helping others - and not to mitigate the unforgivable cruelty of unbridled capitalism…

Are you saying that this applies to the U.S.?

 

[tonyrey]

Are you saying that this applies to the U.S.?

Not only the US but many other countries - including the UK under a Conservative government where the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, there are more than a million children living in poverty and the NHS is being stealthily privatised…

 

[PermanentMarker]

Can someone provide me with a link to the post where MindOverMatter2 shows that a consistent Catholic morality is incompatible with opposing a socialistic healthcare system?

 

[dmelosi]

Not only the US but many other countries - including the UK under a Conservative government where the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, there are more than a million children living in poverty and the NHS is being stealthily privatised…

Then your news sources are completely wrong. Could you explain what you mean helping the poor? Do you mean that everyone should live the same no matter their effort.
Now under Obama the poor have gotten poorer, the poverty rate has gone up, number of unemployed have gone up, gas prices have gone up, federal debt has gone up, more people are using food stamps, and home values have all gotten significantly worse under him.
Obamacare will not only make that worse, but will make abortions paid for be Catholics as well as everyone.

 

[tonyrey]

Can someone provide me with a link to the post where MindOverMatter2 shows that a consistent Catholic morality is incompatible with opposing a socialistic healthcare system?

“socialistic” is a loaded term. Do you regard the UK as socialistic when there is a Conservative government with a NHS?

 

[bearer]

Not only the US but many other countries - including the UK under a Conservative government where the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, there are more than a million children living in poverty and the NHS is being stealthily privatised…

Any privatization of NHS is not the cause of child poverty. You know why so many are advocating privatization? Issues like these:

Thousands of British cancer patients denied vital drugs

Campaigners blame the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE), which has denied patients access to a number of life-extending cancer medicines on the grounds of cost.

The **NHS rationing body **has blocked a quarter of the cancer drugs made available since 2008 and restricted others, despite Government promises for more treatments.

Smokers and fat patients thrown off NHS waiting lists

Smokers and overweight patients in need of major operations could be thrown off hospital waiting lists under “desperate” cost-cutting plans.

One million ‘needlessly in pain’

Professor David Taylor, of the School of Pharmacy at University College London, said the management of pain was an “often neglected” part of healthcare.

Yet he said up to 10 million people suffered from long-term pain, while pain-related disorders cost the country more than £10 billion a year in terms of lost productivity.

And this list goes on and on and on. Public and universal healthcare is an ideal, and no grounded in the realities of politics, economics, and medicine.

I’d advise that you refrain from casting stones until your country gets its own act together.

 

[dmelosi]

“socialistic” is a loaded term. Do you regard the UK as socialistic when there is a Conservative government with a NHS?

The UK conservative government is for the most pro choice. Defending obamacare is helping to slide acceptance of abortion in the U.S. to the same as the U.K.

 

[tonyrey]

Not only the US but many other countries - including the UK under a Conservative government where the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, there are more than a million children living in poverty and the NHS is being stealthily privatised…

Could you explain what you mean helping the poor?

I have already done so.

Do you mean that everyone should live the same no matter their effort.

Non sequitur.

Now under Obama the poor have gotten poorer, the poverty rate has gone up, number of unemployed have gone up, gas prices have gone up, federal debt has gone up, more people are using food stamps, and home values have all gotten significantly worse under him.

Irrelevant.

Obamacare will not only make that worse, but will make abortions paid for be Catholics as well as everyone

Is that** a greater evil** than allowing people to suffer and die for lack of health care?

 

[dmelosi]

I have already done so.

Non sequitur.
Irrelevant.

Is that** a greater evil** than allowing people to suffer and die for lack of health care?

You have not explained what helping the poor is, yet you have said that the U.S. does not.

Abortion is killing a human life, do you agree that is a great evil?

 

[tonyrey]

The UK conservative government is for the most pro choice. Defending obamacare is helping to slide acceptance of abortion in the U.S. to the same as the U.K.

In a democratic nation it is futile to attempt to inflict one’s moral values on the majority. It is a question of choosing the lesser evil.