Catholics: What is your opinion of why we do not have enough Priests?

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Wow, not even one reply regarding what I hoped to hear…I was hoping to show the connection to the lack of commitment from even good Catholic parents who neglect to send their children to a Catholic High School?
Don’t you see the point.
It’s not just everyone else, it could be us in a more generalized sense.
Priest and Nuns do not come out of a secular education. We need more support for our High Schools. Can I get a yeah??
A friend of mine is a substitute teacher in both the local public and Catholic school systems. Since she was raised in a rather anti-Catholic environment, she was somewhat apprehensive about teaching in the Catholic school. After experiencing both, however, she is of the opinion that there is very little difference between the two.
 
Wow, not even one reply regarding what I hoped to hear…I was hoping to show the connection to the lack of commitment from even good Catholic parents who neglect to send their children to a Catholic High School?
Don’t you see the point.
It’s not just everyone else, it could be us in a more generalized sense.
Priest and Nuns do not come out of a secular education. We need more support for our High Schools. Can I get a yeah??
I realize that you’re interested in vocations to the priesthood and not the religious life. But I’ll just throw in my two cents. My religious community is a community of brothers. We have 600 in our region, only 30 are ordained. Out of the 600 only three of us ever attended Catholic schools. Our median age is 35. There is not an automatic correlation between Catholic schooling and vocation.

There are many more powerful reasons for the smaller number of men called to the priesthood. One of them has already been stated, the smaller families. The other is the smaller Catholic communities of yesteryear no longer exist. Kids often grew up in Catholic communities. I’m speaking of neighborhoods where everyone was Catholic and everyone attended Church on Sundays. Additionally, there were less choices for many Catholic men or women. Society often discriminated against Catholics, because so many of the Catholic population belonged to minorities, which in those days were the immigrants: Irish, Italians, Germans, Polish and French. Men and women found acceptance and purpose within their own community, which was Catholic and had a great respect and love for the priesthood and religious life. They opted to serve in their community as priests or religious. These social barriers are no longer in place. It’s always very interesting to see how vocations to the priesthood and religious life thrive when a community is oppressed. We now have a large number of men and women entering the priesthood and religoius life from among the Hispanic, Hatian, and Asian communities. These are Catholic communities that are closely knit, unlike the white anglo community which is much more integrated into mainstream America and dispersed, with many more options in terms of lifestyles and opportunities.

There is another issue. The old parish priest is no longer available. Parishes have become increasingly large. The age when everyoen knew Father and Frather knew every kid in the neighborhood is gone. This personal contact did a lot to promote vocations.

Finally, there is the case of religious orders. Religious men are involved in many other forms of ministry that do not involve parish life. So there are many men entering religious life, whome we shall never see in a parish. There are also many men entering religious life who do not want to be priests. They want to be consecrated men of prayer, work, community, penance, and often contemplatives. These religious communities are harvesting many vocations. My own community has a novitiate class of 20+ per year and about 15 make it to solemn vows. But these men do not want to be priests and some who do never get permission from the major superor to be ordained.

There are too many factors to put the finger on just Catholic schools or the lack of students attending Catholic schools.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Wow, not even one reply regarding what I hoped to hear…I was hoping to show the connection to the lack of commitment from even good Catholic parents who neglect to send their children to a Catholic High School?
Don’t you see the point.
It’s not just everyone else, it could be us in a more generalized sense.
Priest and Nuns do not come out of a secular education. We need more support for our High Schools. Can I get a yeah??
I totally love & support (and prefer/recommend/pray for/work for/wish all kids could have…)Catholic education, however, your premise is not accurate: in my parish alone, 2 of 3 Sisters and the Pastor all went to public school.

ALSO, our high schols must become more faithful, less “wishy-washy” in religious instruction, have Mass more than once a month, and stop putting the emphasis on sports.
 
I think part of the problem is the watering down of priestly identity.

I know many priests who are embarased to be called father and think that any treatment of them that is different than how the laity is treated is clericalism.

This is not true. Yes we are all equal but that does not mean we are all the same.

A priest is no better than a lay person but he is different.

I say that this is only a part of the problem becuase the issue is a very complex one and has many parts. This can not be fixed with one simple solution.
 
I agree that the watering down of the priesthood is a major factor.

Everyone has interpreted the VII phrase “priesthood by virtue of baptism” to mean that the laity can do things that only the priest could do before. Lay people are going way beyond what they are supposed to do, IMO. I see EMHC giving blessings to people who do not want to receive Communion; with the justification, “Well a blessing is just a prayer, and it is ok for anyone to pray, isn’t it?”

It used to be that only ordained hands could touch the host. I think there is a very strong correlation between that rule being suspended and the decrease in vocations.

I read on the articles section that altar girls also decrease vocations indirectly, because if there are altar girls, boys of that age won’t participate along with the girls. Because boys who were altar boys have a higher rate of vocations, by pushing the boys aside with altar girls, it hurts vocations.
 
Wow, not even one reply regarding what I hoped to hear…I was hoping to show the connection to the lack of commitment from even good Catholic parents who neglect to send their children to a Catholic High School?
Don’t you see the point.
It’s not just everyone else, it could be us in a more generalized sense.
Priest and Nuns do not come out of a secular education. We need more support for our High Schools. Can I get a yeah??
i’ve attended catholic schools from 3rd grade all the way to high school graduation and at least in my area where it was a tri-school community (St. Lucy’s, Pomona Catholic and Damian) there was still no interest in the religious life… its very sad especially since catholic high schools aren’t being taught by the nuns and priests like the old days plus high schools are closing down for lack of funding… both parents and kids see catholic education has bothersome and annoying… i loved it but then again, i grew up in a very religious catholic home… not everyone has the same background…

😦
 
I’m happy to say that my Mom supports my vocation. I’m not sure why really, but sometimes she cares more than I do. 😛
 
Sadly in the society we live in being a priest or nun isnt “the cool thing”. As a kid i was told by teachers that to be succesful in life you have to make alot of money. This is false, To me having a succesful life is doing God’s will. Kids today have it hard there is so much temptation around them that makes it really difficult to fully follow God. This is the reason for less people becoming priest and nuns.

Love and pray for your enemies and those who persecute you.🙂
 
Sadly in the society we live in being a priest or nun isnt “the cool thing”. As a kid i was told by teachers that to be succesful in life you have to make alot of money. This is false, To me having a succesful life is doing God’s will. Kids today have it hard there is so much temptation around them that makes it really difficult to fully follow God. This is the reason for less people becoming priest and nuns.

Love and pray for your enemies and those who persecute you.🙂
Just an observation that applies to everyone. I’m not trying to derail the thread. But does everyone notice how CatholicGuy says “priests and nuns”? This points to another good reason why we do not have enough priests. If I were going to post on both the priesthood and the consecrated life, I would have said, clergy to include deacons, priests and bishops and I would have said religious to include sisters, nuns, and brothers. The point is that today’s Catholic does not always know about the options available to them. We have reduced vocations to priests, nuns and marriage.

Just last night, I was teaching religious education. I teach grade 6. Our one brother who is ordained came by to visit the students. We have seven brothers in a parish, but only one is ordained. In our community all of the friars are called Brother. We rarely use the word friar and never the word Father. We avoid friar because most people don’t know that it means the same as Brother. It’s just the Anglocized version of Frater. We do not call our ordained brothers Father, because it is not part of the original Franciscan custom. The only person who was called Father was Francis of Assisi and he was not a priest.

Anyway, the priest came in to say hello to the kids. The kids engaged with him. My aide, a wonderful lay woman, asked the kids, “Who knows Brother Tony?” Every kid in the room said, “He’s the parish priest.” Those kids know and understand religious life and the priesthood. They know that Brother Tony is a priest, but he is first and foremost a religioius brother along with six other brothers in the parish.

The aid asked them, “Who’s Brother Jeff?” The kids said, “He’s the Guardian.” She asked them if Brother Jeff was a priest and they responded, “No. He’s the superior. He’s Brother Tony’s boss, but he’s not a priest.”

Out of a class of 15 kids (seven boys), four of the boys have come and asked what they have to do to become brothers. One of them asked me if he could become a brother priest. I explained to him that only those brothers whom the Guardian felt are called to be priests are given permission to be ordained. He then asked, what happens if you really want to become a priest. I explained to him that you could opt to be a secular priest and join a diocese, because they do not have a religious superior and it is assumed that everyone who enters a diocesan seminary wants to be a priest. I also explained that only the bishop can tell you whether or not you have a vocation. That you cannot tell if you have a vocation to the be a priest. You can only hope and pray.

The point is that in parishes where kids are exposed to clergy and religious, where the adults know all of the options and where adults explain the options to the kids, and the value of each calling, are you going to get kids inquiring. It becomes interesting to them. These four boys who are asking about being brothers may never become brothers, who knows. But they will leave us knowing that there is such a thing as religious life for men, the Sacrament of Holy Orders with its three orders (deacon, priest and bishop), the difference between the two and how the two are essential to the life of the Church.

The second important point here is that one of them may well become a brother and he may well be an ordained brother, who knows. But if he chooses to join our brotherhood, he will have begun not with some explosive divine revelation, but with a simple curiosity. You cannot be curious if you have never been exposed. Even when you’re exposed, your curiosity is peaked by the beauty of diversity. When you see men and women in different lifestyles you begin to ask questions about similarities and differences.

The first order of the day is for adults to get informed about such matters as Holy Orders and religious life. Adults who are parents, catechists and youth ministers are the ones who have to promote these vocations. But you have to know what the options are and you have to promote them equally and as equal vocations.

I was speaking with a secular (diocesan) priest today. We spoke of this very issue. He said,

“My greatest fear when I deal with you (religious men), is that I know nothing about you. My parents did me a great disservice. They always pushed the priesthood and never mentioned the religious lfie. I’m glad that I’m a priest. But I’m sad that I know very little about religious men. It did not have to be that way. We had religious men in our diocese.”

I thought to myself, how sad it is that the laity doesn’t present all of the options to children, especially at a young age.

I recall my first attraction to the Franciscans was due to the fact that we visited their friary as kids. I was attracted to the fact that they looked, acted and even talked differently from our own priests in our neighborhood. To some that may be a turn-off and that’s ok too. But to me, it was a selling point. I liked the priests in our parish, but the black cassock did nothing for me. On the other hand, the grey Franciscan habit and what I have come to call the disheveled Franciscan look was very attractive, because it seemed very relaxed and very joyful.

Whatever turns kids on is always a mystery. But the fact remains, that it is the duty of adults to expose kids to these different vocations.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
If Priests made 75K per year, there would not be a shortage. People want money, money money money, and they push their kids to make money and to enter fields where they will make money!

The rest of the potential priests and religious have been contracepted out of existance and aborted before birth.

We are reaping what we have sown.
 
If Priests made 75K per year, there would not be a shortage. People want money, money money money, and they push their kids to make money and to enter fields where they will make money!

The rest of the potential priests and religious have been contracepted out of existance and aborted before birth.

We are reaping what we have sown.
In some dioceses secular priests make that much a year and more and they still have a shortage. Remember, not all priests are religious. About half are secular men. They get paid for what they do. Nine-years ago I was a Dean at a college in a large Catholic university. My community was paid about 18K for my services. The secular priests who were deans of other colleges at the same university were paid directly. They were paid a full dean’s salary, about 75K a year.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
There are a number of reasons:

A) Few people are ready to make a life time commitment to any career. Most people will change jobs a half dozen times or more.

B) The giving up the possibility for family life

C) It’s a hard job with less appreciation than ever

D) Recent scandals have made the career even less appealing in the eyes of those considering it, and even less deserving of respect and admiration in the eyes of the public.

E) Fewer are willing to totally devote their lives to a doctrines that they are not 100% in agreement with.

If you touch base with gen X and later generations, money is not the #1 factor they look at. They look for a work life balance and. I’m not sure there is a career that has less of a work/life balance than being a priest.
 
There are a number of reasons:

A) Few people are ready to make a life time commitment to any career. Most people will change jobs a half dozen times or more.

B) The giving up the possibility for family life

C) It’s a hard job with less appreciation than ever

D) Recent scandals have made the career even less appealing in the eyes of those considering it, and even less deserving of respect and admiration in the eyes of the public.

E) Fewer are willing to totally devote their lives to a doctrines that they are not 100% in agreement with.

If you touch base with gen X and later generations, money is not the #1 factor they look at. They look for a work life balance and. I’m not sure there is a career that has less of a work/life balance than being a priest.
Bold is mine.

I find this statement attracts my attention. Can you elaborate what you mean? I want to make sure that I understand what you mean. Thanks.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
It means it’s a job with very little “me” or “down time.”
 
  1. The widespread down-playing of the special role of the priest in many, many parishes and publications. The priest is reduced to an administrator, an adviser, perhaps a sacramental functionary, but nothing more.
While the role of priest has been reduced to a sacramental functionary the lay ecclesial ministry movement has grown in volume.

“Currently in the U.S., there are over 30,000 lay ecclesial ministers serving the Catholic Church, and another 16,000 studying in ministry formation programs.”

Bishop Matthew Clark writes about ‘changing the face of the Catholic Church’ in his book Forward in Hope. This book he has penned comes out close to the end of his career as Bishop of Rochester, NY. DOR is notorious for very low priest formation, lay/women religious giving pseudo homilies and home of the schism Spiritus Christi church.

My feeling is that low numbers of priests today is due in part to the new lay ecclesial micromanaging church functions. The fact that most of these lay ecclesials are ‘paid’ troubles me. Decades ago, lay people had much to do in the life of the Church on a voluntary basis. Now good and decent would-be volunteers are brushed aside by over controlling lay people working for a salary. With that in mind - it appears to me that the lay ecclesial movement is more in response to power, earthly knowlege and the almighty dollar rather than a movement of Spirit in response to the needs of the Church.
 
It means it’s a job with very little “me” or “down time.”
That’s what I thought you were saying. But I wanted to make sure. thanks

The fact is not totally true. Most priests are seculars. They do not belong to a religious community and therefore are not consecrated men. They make no vows and do have the demands of community life, because they do not live in a religious community. In other words, they are not part of a religious family. They are independent Catholics. They do not have the rigorous prayer life of religious men, the austeriy of religious men, nor are they bound in any way to observe material poverty. Secular priests have no superiors or brothers to whom they must render an account of their life and their spiritual growth. They develop their own spirituality guided by their faith and their spiritual director.

In practice, this means that a secular priest is usually assigned to a parish, though many are also assigned to institutions of learning, administration, healthcare, the military or other ministries where there is a need for their services. Since the majority of secular priests serve in parishes, let’s take a look at a typical day for them.

The day usually begins with an early morning mass. Then they go to the parish office where they work until lunch time. They break for lunch. After lunch they work until the office closes, which in most parishes is 4:30 or 5:00. Some parishes may have an evening mass. After office hours the typical parish priest goes home for dinner. There are often meetings or other activities in the evening. The priest may choose to participate in these or delegate them to a deacon or to a lay person to run. Obviously, most parish priests are available for emergency confessioins and annointing of the sick when someone is ill in the middle of the night. In those parishes where there is more than one priest, they take turns being on call so that you do not have to be up in the middle of the night every night, but only on those nights when you’re on duty.

Additionally, secular priests are paid a salary. It’s not a high salary, but it’s enough to pay for their expenses. It averages from 18K to 25K a year, plus room and & board. If you add room & board, it’s between 30K to 50K depending on the cost of living in your area.

Secular priests also have a day off every week and vacations. They are not required to accept every assignment that the pastor gives them, but only those that they wish to take on. They must celebrate mass for the parish on the days assigned, hear confessions and celebrate at least one mass on Sundays. If they have no deacons, they must celebrate funerals, baptisms and weddings. But if they have deacons, they may delegate these sacraments for them to celebrate. There is no law in the Church that says that they must celebrate these sacraments, if there is a deacon to do so.

Secular priests may also own property. This means that they may have a second job that produces income, inherit money from their family fortune (if they have one), inherit property and other assets. They need not give anyone an account of their personal wealth. Some priests are very poor and others are quite wealthy, depending on their resoruces.

These priests promise obedience to the local bishop only on matters that relate to ministry. The bishop may never interfere in their spiritual lives, their personal relationships, their personal life, how they use their time off, how they dress, what they drive or how they use their money. The bishop may insist that they live at the local rectory during the days that they work, but they can retire to their private homes on their free day or live with their family or friends. Some own condos or homes to which they retire on days when they are not working. In some dioceses they are not obliged to live in the rectory, so they go to their private home every night.

Priests are required to pray the Liturgy of the Hours during the day. But unlilke religious men, they are required to pray only four of the hours: Office of Readings, Morning Prayer, Evening Prayer and Night Prayer. They are not required to spend time in adoration, pray the rosary, do lectio divina, daily meditation, silent prayer or any type of community prayer with other priests.

to be continued
 
conclusion

Those secular priests who share a rectory do not form a community. Each one enters and leaves at his discretion at whatever time he wishes to do so. A rectory is really a house that the parish provides, but there is not community life. Each priest eats, sleeps, rests, enters and leaves on his own schedule. They need never cross paths with the other priests living in the house. In other words, it’s not a brotherhood or a religious family.

Because of these circumstances, these priests are canonically secular men, like any other secular man. Contrary to what many Catholics believe, they are not consecrated men. Only members of religious orders are consecrated men. These have a very different way of life, which is the topic for another post.

The day and work of a secular or diocesan priest can be long or short, difficult or hard, depending on the circumstances in which he lives and the assignment. Since secular priests do not make a vow of obedience, they do not have to remain at an assignment that they do not want. They can ask the bishop to move them. If there is not other assignment available, a secular or diocesan priest, as they are often called, may resign his post and find another job until a more desireable priestly assignment becomes available. Most diocese have a personel office, like any other organization. Priests apply for positions and transfers through that office. However, a priest who is not working for the diocese does receive a salary and is not entitled to housing paid for by the Church. He must find his own housing and earn his income through his own means. But he does not lose his faculties, because he is still in communion with his bishop and the Church. He has done nothing wrong to merit losing his faculties. He simply has resigned from a post that he did not like. The Church consideres that to be very legitimate for secular priests. Religious do not have this choice either. They are assigned for a specific period of time and their opinion is irrelevant. Many communities, such as my own, do not allow us to have an oppinion, period. This is not the case with secular priests. They can have opinions about their work, their assignments and even the people with whom they live.

Remember, this is the way that secular/diocesan priests live, not religious. Religious men, priests or non clerical, live very differently. About half of the priests in the USA are secular. About 1/3 around the world are secular.

There is room for individuality to shine through in the priesthood, as long as the priest is not a consecrated religoius. The life is not glamorous, but no one said it would be. Afterall, it is a participation in the priesthood of Jesus Christ. Christ’s priesthood shines on the cross, not on stage.

I hope this clarifies some questions .

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I notice that no one has mentioned that there are also two phenomenon taking place in the Church today that have not happened since the 1700s.
  1. Religious orders are deliberately ordaining less men in order to preserve the religious charism free from confusion with the priesthood.
  2. The Church is running a very strong campaign of recruitment for congregations and orders of brothers who are not priests and they are growing in leeps and bounds. The Missionaries of the Poor are one example. They are a young community that began with four brothers several years ago and have over 500 in 13 couintries. The Carmelites have given birth to a community of brothers who are not priests. The Franciscans have given birth to more than 600,000 brothers around the world, who are not priests and are willing to ordain only enough to provide the sacraments for their community. The Benedictines are founding more monasteries of brothers with no priests and these monasteries are growing and replicating. The Church created something called Secular Institutes for men. These are institutes where men live the consecrated life while remaining in the secular world, but they are not ordained. They make vows. There are so many of them that the Church has redifined the mission of what used to be the Sacred Congregation for Religious in the Vatican to what is now the Sacred Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life. Many of these societies of apsotolic life do nto allow their members to be ordained.
I know that in my own religious family at last count in 2008 we were 1.7 million around the world, but only 30% were allowed to be ordained. To ordain too many would turn us from a religious order of lay menj to a religious order of priests, contrary to the rule of St. Francis and to his wishes. Like this there are many other religious groups who are growing. I almost forgot to mention Mother Teresa’s Brothers of Charity who have now become an international congregation with about 1,000 brothers, none of whom may become priests.

Along with all of the social issues that people have mentioned, there is a concentrated effort on the part of the Church to promote male religious life in its purest state, once again. This had not been done since the 18th and 1j9th centuries. Prior to that it had been in the 13th century.

Every time that the Church goes through a period of restoring religious life of men, there is a decrease in the numbers of priests. It’s a cycle. But it has to be done, because the number of lay brothers had fallen very low during the 1960s. The men who entered as brothers in the 1940s and 50s were part of that large group of religious men who left in the 1960s and 70s. The ones who stayed almost decimated their religious communities with all kinds of strange ideas. Now the younger generation of men has taken up the challenge to restore the brotherhood back to its original state of consecrated life without priesthood or with a small number of priests who serve their needs. This leaves the bishops and the laity to fend for themselves to supply priests for the parishes. It’s a difficult choice. You either preserve religious life or you sacrifice it to serve parishes.

The faith of the Church is that Christ promised that he will always be with her and that she will prevail. Therefore, there is no doubt that we will always have priests, just not in large numbers are the glory days. The swing is now to religious men who are either mendicants, monastic or missionaries and they are growing. I’m personally surprised at the rate that they are growing.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
conclusion

The day and work of a secular or diocesan priest can be long or short, difficult or hard, depending on the circumstances in which he lives and the assignment. Since secular priests do not make a vow of obedience, they do not have to remain at an assignment that they do not want. They can ask the bishop to move them. If there is not other assignment available, a secular or diocesan priest, as they are often called, may resign his post and find another job until a more desireable priestly assignment becomes available. Most diocese have a personel office, like any other organization. Priests apply for positions and transfers through that office. However, a priest who is not working for the diocese does receive a salary and is not entitled to housing paid for by the Church. He must find his own housing and earn his income through his own means. But he does not lose his faculties, because he is still in communion with his bishop and the Church. He has done nothing wrong to merit losing his faculties. He simply has resigned from a post that he did not like. The Church consideres that to be very legitimate for secular priests. Religious do not have this choice either. They are assigned for a specific period of time and their opinion is irrelevant. Many communities, such as my own, do not allow us to have an oppinion, period. This is not the case with secular priests. They can have opinions about their work, their assignments and even the people with whom they live.

I hope this clarifies some questions .

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Your description of diocesan priesthood is excellent. Having worked in parishes for many many years, I have first hand experience with the day to day life of parish priests. In our parish we have, at the moment, 5 priests. Two are assigned and the other three are in residence, two temporary for several months and one long term. This really lightens the work load for our priests and it seems that they have lots of free time available to them and two of them we hardly see except at Mass. The residents have no parish assignments except to celebrate a wake service or funeral, hear confessions, maybe visit the sick, and celebrate Mass. They also have a duty day, but often there is no reason to call on them during the day and what is basically means is that they have to be available if there is a need. One resident likes to get involved and asks me and the DRE if there are things he can do (and we do take him up on his offer quite often). But even the pastor and associate have a lot of free time. The associate more than the pastor because the pastor is a bit more involved in meetings and such. He is also on several diocesan committees. The associate seems to spend a lot of time at the school popping in and out of the classrooms. The only time all five get together is at dinner, and even then one or two may sign out and go somewhere else for the evening.
 
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