Catholics who know history: please answer

[Realcatholicgk]

Curious ?

Quote by: Realcatholicgk

The Catholic church is 2,000 years old and still teaching the same things. Protestant religions, only 500 years old , are teaching 1,375 different doctrines and dogmas in 61,000 seperate denominations using over 100 different bibles with altered words and verses.

Isn’t the Jewish “church” older than the Catholic church? If so, who is it then that holds more authority?

**Hi Hoi Polloi,

That is an excellent point! It is so good to talk with an intelligent person! Many others here aren’t as smart as you are! I know for sure that I am not! However, I do see your point! If it wasn’t for the fact that Jesus came to fullfill the OT we would all have to be Jewish to be following the “true” religion and “true” God, Right? Well all I can say is Thank God for God! Wandering around in deserts and that “cutting” thing isn’t my idea of fun! They are our ancestors! Their teachings are a part of our religion! Their God is our God!

By the way, do you realize that only the Jewish OT and the Catholic NT have never been changed to comply with either church’s teachings! We both have change our teachings to comply with God’s words, as the truth is revealed to our churches. Isn’t that an unique idea? Protestants should try it, but if they did, they would become “Catholic” wouldn’t they?

God Bless! **

 

[Realcatholicgk]

You can access any of the things that were cited from Wikipedia in any of the historical writings concerning the Church. What part of the Church’s history that was cited do you disagree with?

You misunderstood, John!. It is just that Wikipedia isn’t the “first” choice of authentic Catholic teachings! You can go there and make changes. You knew that right?

Oh and by the way, I am a member of the Roman Catholic Church **

Good! I hope you practice “our” religion!

Oh, No, you can’t be forgiven a sin that you don’t repent! If you aren’t sorry about it you can’t be forgiven! That is a large part of the forgiveness process! And once a sin is forgiven, it is forgotten! However there is a toll that must be paid!

“It it weren’t for Christians, I’d be a Christian.” - Mahatma Ghandi

God Bless
**

 

[John1]

Whoever started the thread asked for Catholics that knew history if they could give some information about the Protestant Reformation and if it was justified. I was doing just that.

No, I was not aware that you could change the information on Wikipedia, but again there was nothing that I cited that could not be cited from other sources. How would you know which source I accessed first and why would I need you to tell me which source I, as a Catholic, should access first?

The Roman Catholic Church is the name of “our” denomination, Christianity is the name of “our” religion.

Thank you for the reply to the other thread.

 

[Metamorphoo]

Metamorphoo;4512671:

See Decree on Ecumenism quoted in one of my earliest posts on this thread.
“And yet, almost everyone, though in different ways longs for the one visible Church of God, a Church truly universal and sent forth in the whole world that the world may be converted to the Gospel and so be saved, to the glory of God.”
Vatican II “set forth before all Catholics guidelines, helps and methods, by which they too can respond to the grace of this divine call.”
“It follows that the separated Churches and communities as such, though we believe they suffer from the defects already mentioned, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. for the Spirit of God has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy form the very fullnes of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church.”

Thanks, DebChris. Although the RCC and Protestants differ, we look to the same Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

 

[DebChris]

Whoever started the thread asked for Catholics that knew history if they could give some information about the Protestant Reformation and if it was justified. I was doing just that.

No, I was not aware that you could change the information on Wikipedia, but again there was nothing that I cited that could not be cited from other sources. How would you know which source I accessed first and why would I need you to tell me which source I, as a Catholic, should access first?

The Roman Catholic Church is the name of “our” denomination, Christianity is the name of “our” religion.

Thank you for the reply to the other thread.

I never look at Wikipedia. It is not reliable.
Some people use it for a search engine, like Google. It can be used to take you to more reliable sources.
This thread does seem to be drifting from the original question.
Debating about who is right and who is not does not really help.
What does help is looking at the actual events of that time.
Vatican II makes the very real point that nobody is responsible for the actions of others, especially those who live 500 years ago.
God does work within the lives of all who believe.
We have more in common with our brothers and sisters in Christ than not.

 

[Metamorphoo]

Realcatholicgk:
The Magisterium has recognized the authenticity of the faith of non-Catholic Christians.
**
Actually they said it is “faulty”, the same as I do! Anyone who doesn’t follow the teachings of the Catholic Church are heretics! Another way of saying that is “separated brethren” of course!**

The tone of your rhetoric belittled the faith of non-Catholic Christians by stating that we are in jeopardy of eternal damnation for not submitting to the RCC pope and some RCC doctrines.

So, my oratory became rhetoric to your eyes? What a shame,!“None as as blind as those that refuse to see” Actually, your jeopardy lies in your not eating the real Body and drinking the real Blood of Jesus as He personally “commanded”. Plus by not submitting yourself to Jesus’ will and following His teachings! For willfully disobeying Him and His real church’s teachings! Can you still be saved? Of course, Are all “Catholics” saved? Of course not!
**
Is your church “correct” in what it teaches?Let’s just say: NO!**

Vatican II refuted that idea over 40 years ago.

It did? Hmm, did I "misread something? What is your exact quote on that? You mean we finally admitted that we were wrong and you are correct? That all your modifications, changes and corruptions of the things we are required to follow was right? Did the RCC admitted we were wrong? I have to see that! Yea! Please, send me that reference.

By your statements, I would say that you not in submission to the teaching of your own Magisterium regarding “separated
brethren” (please note that we are called “brethren” by your Magisterium).

By your statements, I would say that you think that the Catholic church has given some kind of approval for your corrupt beliefs? (Please note that you are also called Heretics by the entire world, and I mean that in the nicest way possibly, my brethren!)*

I think you need to read DebChris post, which quotes Vatican II decree on the relationship between the RCC and non-Catholic Christians.

You call us “heretics.” The word “heretic” and “Christian” are incompatible with each other. There is no such thing as a “heretic” being a “separated brother.” A heretic is not a brother in Christ. Vatican II has affirmed that we are indeed Christian–brothers in Christ–in spite of the issues we disagree on and doctrinal beliefs that the RCC considers “faulty.”

Calling us heretics is essentially saying that we do not have salvation through Christ–the same ideas you communicated in your original post I found so offensive. That is why I say that you are not in submission to the decree of your Magisterium regarding non-Catholic Christians. My perspective remains unchanged.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

You call us “heretics.” The word “heretic” and “Christian” are incompatible with each other.

**
No they aren’t and you saying so doesn’t make it true! ***

There is no such thing as a “heretic” being a “separated brother.” A heretic is not a brother in Christ.
**

Grab a dictionary buddy! Maybe you have Heathen confused with heretic?

Heretic:
Main Entry: Pronunciation: 'her-?-?tik, 'he-r?-\ Function: noun Date: 14th century
1:: a dissenter from established religious dogma ; especially : a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church who disavows a revealed truth
2: one who dissents from an accepted belief or doc**.

Vatican II has affirmed that we are indeed Christian–brothers in Christ–in spite of the issues we disagree on and doctrinal beliefs that the RCC considers “faulty.”
**
Yup I agree!**

Calling us heretics is essentially saying that we do not have salvation through Christ–the same ideas you communicated in your original post I found so offensive.

**
No it is saying essentially **that you don’t agree with the catholic Church. Why woould that ofend you?

That is why I say that you are not in submission to the decree of your Magisterium regarding non-Catholic Christians. My perspective remains unchanged.

**Your perspective is still wrong. And you need to do something about you attitude! I am totally in submission to my Church’s teachings and beliefs.

God Bless!
**

 

[Realcatholicgk]

I never look at Wikipedia. It is not reliable.
Some people use it for a search engine, like Google. It can be used to take you to more reliable sources.
This thread does seem to be drifting from the original question.
Debating about who is right and who is not does not really help.
What does help is looking at the actual events of that time.
Vatican II makes the very real point that nobody is responsible for the actions of others, especially those who live 500 years ago.
God does work within the lives of all who believe.
We have more in common with our brothers and sisters in Christ than not.

**
Hi Deb,

Good Points.

The problem is they don’t understand that their eternal souls can be lost due to their attitude and being guided away from jesus’ real teachings. Good, faithfilled, decent people who hate the CC which is their way to salvation. Go figure! They even argue against jesus’ teachings How can we make a change in their hearts? Impossible, but we continue to try! They are loved!

God Bless**

 

[Metamorphoo]

Calling us heretics is essentially saying that we do not have salvation through Christ–the same ideas you communicated in your original post I found so offensive.

No it is saying essentially that you don’t agree with the catholic Church. Why woould that ofend you?

I am not at all offended if you say that Protestants don’t agree with the Catholic Church.

What DOES offend me? Your description of “heretical” Protestant groups as “cancerous growths,” with a “corrupt” faith, and strongly insinuating that membership within these group are apt to result in “loss of their eternal souls”–is FAR more than merely stating that their doctrine departs from that of the RCC.

Cancer kills. Corruption is the “impairment of integrity, virtue, or moral principle: depravity.” In the history of the Church, “heretics” were anathematized–i.e, cursed. In the Middle Ages, “heretics” were killed because of their dissent from the RCC. The word heretic is a very emotionally charged word–and your association of Protestantism with cancer, corruption and damnation is plenty of evidence that those connotations are what you have in mind when you use the word. It is not a mere difference in doctrinal belief.

 

[Hisalone]

Whoever started the thread asked for Catholics that knew history if they could give some information about the Protestant Reformation and if it was justified. I was doing just that.

No, I was not aware that you could change the information on Wikipedia, but again there was nothing that I cited that could not be cited from other sources. How would you know which source I accessed first and why would I need you to tell me which source I, as a Catholic, should access first?

The Roman Catholic Church is the name of “our” denomination, Christianity is the name of “our” religion.

Thank you for the reply to the other thread.

Wikipedia for the most part is reliable. Tey have changed their rules on who can edit articles and how articles are edited. I find for te most part they will give both sides to any dispute. For me I find them more reliable than New Advent.

 

[Hisalone]

**
Hi Deb,

Good Points.

The problem is they don’t understand that their eternal souls can be lost due to their attitude and being guided away from jesus’ real teachings. Good, faithfilled, decent people who hate the CC which is their way to salvation. Go figure! They even argue against jesus’ teachings How can we make a change in their hearts? Impossible, but we continue to try! They are loved!

God Bless**

And where do we find Jesus’ true teachings?
For many of us the Roman Church has proved far too unreliable, where do we begin? We begin with scripture

 

[Realcatholicgk]

And where do we find Jesus’ true teachings?
For many of us the Roman Church has proved far too unreliable, where do we begin? We begin with scripture

---

**Hi hisalone, **** **

---

**But remember, the scripture was written by the “unreliable” RCC which Billions of people follow! Now you “know-it-alls” can’t even agree on one verson of the bible. You are now at over 100 and growing! Yea, Way to go! You are reliable to change God’s word to suit your personal needs and desires! Yup! that makes you reliable! As Catholics we can rely on Protestants to distort, change, modify ,and corrupt Jesus’ teachings. That is what has happened for the last 500 years. You have over 61,000 denominations teaching 1,375 doctrines or dogma and not one church that agrees with another one! Yup, reliability jumps to my mind when I think of Protestants. freesmileys.org/smileys/shocked016.gif **

---

God Bless!

---

---

 

[Hisalone]

---

**Hi hisalone, **** **

---

But remember, the scripture was written by the “unreliable” RCC which Billions of people follow! Now you “know-it-alls” can’t even agree on one verson of the bible. You are now at over 100 and growing! Yea, Way to go! You are reliable to change God’s word to suit your personal needs and desires! Yup! that makes you reliable! As Catholics we can rely on Protestants to distort, change, modify ,and corrupt Jesus’ teachings. That is what has happened for the last 500 years. You have over 61,000 denominations teaching 1,375 doctrines or dogma and not one church that agrees with another one! Yup, reliability jumps to my mind when I think of Protestants. freesmileys.org/smileys/shocked016.gif

---

God Bless!

---

---

But why should I believe a lie?
The oracles of God were entrusted to the Jews. Scriptures were written by the breath of God through the Jews.

A good example of why the Roman Church is unrelieable.

 

[rinnie]

And where do we find Jesus’ true teachings?
For many of us the Roman Church has proved far too unreliable, where do we begin? We begin with scripture

You keep saying that, but when I ask you to show me where, you have not dont that yet. Now you really need to show me where in scripture we are unreliable. First you said we worship false idols. I said we believe that Jesus is the Son of God so he is not a false idol. When you see a statue of Jesus do you believe that is God?

 

[rinnie]

It still does not make a difference.
The teaching is still different from the command!

How. Please show me in the NT where it say’s that we cannot have statues of the Blessed Mother, Jesus and the Saints? PLEASE! You keep going back to the OT. I exlained to you that in the OT God did not reveal himself as Man yet. God did not send the Blessed Mother yet! So again please show me the scripture where it says that a Statue of Jesus is a false God!

 

[universalist]

humility was a virtue that jesus was really big on,and something that is really lacking by certain posters here! I won,t name any names but the triumphalist my way or the highway attitudes by certain posters here has really soured me instead of attracted me towards Roman Catholicism! In Christian UNITY!

 

[DebChris]

As Christians, the Old Testament needs to be written in light of the New Testament and the New Testament in light of the Old Testament.
The Mass, therefore, includes both. Daily Mass readings include an Old Testament reading plus a Gospel reading. Sunday Mass adds a reading from the epistles. Every Mass includes a Psalm by which we give praise to God.
Every Mass includes adoration, praise, petition, and thanksgiving. . Ours is a Judeo-Christian Tradition. The Mass can trace its origin to the worship to which the Jews were familiar. Jesus relied heavily on the Hebrew Scriptures. As He walked with the disciples on the way to Emmaus, He was able to refer them to all that scripture had said about Him. In His Parables, Jesus gave examples from life to which His hearers could relate.
Yes, Scripture is important. We experience God’s presence in our lives in other ways as well. Ours is a living faith.
Vatican II did not set forth any new doctrines. Yes, there were external changes to the Mass. The language was changed from the Vulgate to the vernacular so that more could understand. The Vulgate had been used for centuries because it was the language of the people and replaced the previous Greek, the language of the aristocracy. What has not changed are the essential elements of the Mass, particularly in reference to the Consecration in which bread and wine are changed into the Body of Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.
It is the acceptance of Jesus Christ as the long awaited Messiah that sets us apart from our Jewish ancestors. We have been graphed to the vine.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

humility was a virtue that jesus was really big on,and something that is really lacking by certain posters here! I won,t name any names but the triumphalist my way or the highway attitudes by certain posters here has really soured me instead of attracted me towards Roman Catholicism! In Christian UNITY!

** Hi universalist

How are you? We can tell that you were here to be converted. Since Jesus was correct ,was He arrogant? Wasn’t He humble but forceful in His teachings? Weakness is not true humility, just like allowing someone to die isn’t true charity! We must practice christianity in the correct way that God commands or suffer damnation! It is that plain ,it is that simple.
I don’t think anyone here believes they are saved, unless there might be a Protestant who believes in one of the three "Sola"s. All the rest of us attempt to live according to God’s will and help our separated brethern see thecorrect path to God. Many a good people have been sold phoney stocks. Many a good christians have been sold phoney religions. it is that simple, it is that true!

God Bless**

 

[universalist]

you make me laugh, i assure you that god is much bigger and larger than your point of view,your attitude and snideness would certainly not do anything but drive me away,I suggest you read a little more of the gospels to get the true meaning of what it takes to be a follower of the savior Jesus,and i also assure you that i,m not in the least bit worried of my salvation. IN CHRIST.

 

[John1]

you make me laugh, i assure you that god is much bigger and larger than your point of view,your attitude and snideness would certainly not do anything but drive me away,I suggest you read a little more of the gospels to get the true meaning of what it takes to be a follower of the savior Jesus,and i also assure you that i,m not in the least bit worried of my salvation. IN CHRIST.

Hi Universalist,

Please don’t think that all Catholics ar arrogant. The Roman Catholic Church is a rich source of Christian history and traditions. The writings of the early church fathers and church historians are a wealth of information about what the early Christians believed and how Christianity grew. Like I’ve mentioned before, Christianity is the religion, the true Church is made up of Christians, wherever they are.