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- Status
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ahs
Guest
And what DOES this work of Church Doctrine say about contraception?
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
2366 Fecundity is a gift, an end of marriage, for conjugal love naturally tends to be fruitful. A child does not come from outside as something added on to the mutual love of the spouses, but springs from the very heart of that mutual giving, as its fruit and fulfillment. So the Church, which "is on the side of life"150 teaches that "each and every marriage act must remain open ‘per se’ to the transmission of life."151 "This particular doctrine, expounded on numerous occasions by the Magisterium, is based on the inseparable connection, established by God, which man on his own initiative may not break, between the unitive significance and the procreative significance which are both inherent to the marriage act."152
2368 A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality:
When it is a question of harmonizing married love with the responsible transmission of life, the morality of the behavior does not depend on sincere intention and evaluation of motives alone; but it must be determined by objective criteria, criteria drawn from the nature of the person and his acts criteria that respect the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love; this is possible only if the virtue of married chastity is practiced with sincerity of heart.155
2369 "By safeguarding both these essential aspects, the unitive and the procreative, the conjugal act preserves in its fullness the sense of true mutual love and its orientation toward man’s exalted vocation to parenthood."156
2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.157 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:158
The Church’s teaching is clear, and the need for all Catholics to assent to it is equally clear. As your brother in Christ, I implore all Catholics who dissent from the Church’s teachings to turn from their arrogance, or other attitude position that leads them from assent, and submit to the Authority that Christ Himself has bestowed upon His Church.
In Christ,
ahs
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
2366 Fecundity is a gift, an end of marriage, for conjugal love naturally tends to be fruitful. A child does not come from outside as something added on to the mutual love of the spouses, but springs from the very heart of that mutual giving, as its fruit and fulfillment. So the Church, which "is on the side of life"150 teaches that "each and every marriage act must remain open ‘per se’ to the transmission of life."151 "This particular doctrine, expounded on numerous occasions by the Magisterium, is based on the inseparable connection, established by God, which man on his own initiative may not break, between the unitive significance and the procreative significance which are both inherent to the marriage act."152
2368 A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality:
When it is a question of harmonizing married love with the responsible transmission of life, the morality of the behavior does not depend on sincere intention and evaluation of motives alone; but it must be determined by objective criteria, criteria drawn from the nature of the person and his acts criteria that respect the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love; this is possible only if the virtue of married chastity is practiced with sincerity of heart.155
2369 "By safeguarding both these essential aspects, the unitive and the procreative, the conjugal act preserves in its fullness the sense of true mutual love and its orientation toward man’s exalted vocation to parenthood."156
2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.157 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:158
The Church’s teaching is clear, and the need for all Catholics to assent to it is equally clear. As your brother in Christ, I implore all Catholics who dissent from the Church’s teachings to turn from their arrogance, or other attitude position that leads them from assent, and submit to the Authority that Christ Himself has bestowed upon His Church.
In Christ,
ahs
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ahs
Guest
Rence, I understand what you are getting at. But you are making assumptions here. It does not matter what atage a person is at in their lives, we are all called to assent to the Church’s Authority. We don’t have to understand it, we just have to assent to it. And don’t assume that not using contraception is somehow easier for me than for someone else jsut because I obey the Church in Her position on contraception. My life is not all peaches and cream…I know what it is like to want to, to need to, avoid another pregnancy with my wife. But my wants or needs do not trump God’s Law.
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ahs
Guest
For those who had questions or concerns about what Jesus said about judging:
blog.adw.org/2010/06/correcti…rk-of-charity/
and
blog.adw.org/2009/11/fraterna…gotten-virtue/
blog.adw.org/2010/06/correcti…rk-of-charity/
and
blog.adw.org/2009/11/fraterna…gotten-virtue/
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AntalKalnoky
Guest
In addition to which Catholic NFP is the Only 100 % effective, Ideal, most mutually respectful, and romantic too. The Church teaches following Natural Laws, which Are Best, not our human marketing products which can hurt physically in damages, and sometimes failure, and immoral, unnatural.
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Corki
Guest
NFP is not the ideal. NFP is a solution, a valid one, when a problem exists. “Ideal” is not having a problem situation that you have to deal with in the first place.
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ahs
Guest
For those who had a question or concern about what Jesus said about judging:
blog.adw.org/2010/06/correcting-the-sinner-is-not-being-judgmental-it-is-an-essential-work-of-charity/
blog.adw.org/2009/11/fraternal-correction-the-forgotten-virtue/
blog.adw.org/2010/06/correcting-the-sinner-is-not-being-judgmental-it-is-an-essential-work-of-charity/
blog.adw.org/2009/11/fraternal-correction-the-forgotten-virtue/
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Rence
Guest
You are at a different stage of development than a person who sets aside Church teachings, especially difficult ones. So I understand your frustration when you see others cast aside Church teachings, and don’t have faith in the Church’s leading authority. Especially because you have the faith to do so, it disturbs you when others don’t do the same. At the risk of being told (not by you) that I am agenda posting, I am going to speak from my heart and hope you understand what I’m trying to say. I don’t expect to change your mind, I just want to express my thoughts in this matter: It is unnatural for people to go against their grain and submit to an authority in which they don’t have faith or confidence. That’s what it boils down to. Until they have faith in the Church, and confidence in the Church, they’re not going to set aside their own beliefs and values because that’s where it starts. That doesn’t mean they think the Church has it all wrong. That means that they don’t think the Church has it all right. It doesn’t start with someone demanding allegiance and total obedience. It starts with faith in the Church to lead. It starts with believing that the Church has it all right, and never gets it wrong. It starts with believing that the Church is the ultimate figure of authority on this earth.
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AntalKalnoky
Guest
All depends on how one defines “Problem” and “Ideal”; I’ve offered my views, which agree with those of The Church and Science. Your definition of ‘ideal’ is a new one to me; my opinion of ‘Not having a problem’ is Normal situation.
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ahs
Guest
I understand what you are getting at. And that is the pupose of my OP. I am showing those who are not assenting to the Church’s teachings the error of that decision. It is important to bring to light because not assenting to, contraception specifically, leads a person into committing grave sin. The sin of contraception is a grave one, “intrinsically evil” says the Church, whether you agree that it is a sin or not…whether you understand the teaching or not…it is “intrinsically evil”.
Now, that is not an automatic qualifier for mortal sin, I realize this. But a grave sin is a grave sin, and it pains me to see so many are committing this sin, not just out of ignorance or out of a lapse of good judgement, but obstinately and out of direct disobedience because they beleive their opinions are above the Church. And to further publically defend the sin…it breaks my heart.
The Church, the Voice of God, does not call us to understand each teaching prior to assenting to them. We are not required to even agree. But we are required to assent to the teachings at all cost. That is why we have a Profession of Faith. That is why we have Confirmation, when when voice our acceptance of the Faith we were Baptized in…to profess out Faith in Christ’s Church.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Those who bring up “Judging” please read below.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8262744&postcount=5
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8262744&postcount=5
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Rence
Guest
Yeah, I can see you’re trying to get through to people. It’s all you can do really, and then they pick up where you leave off.
Well, the thing is, this is a discussion forum. These folks are discussing the issues as it relates to them and their lives. They’re not publicly defending the sin. They are defending their position. They are expressing their thoughts, values and beliefs. And people feel very strongly about them or frankly, they wouldn’t have them. This is not publicly dissenting. This message board was designed for many purposes. One of these purposes is to afford people the opportunity to work through their problems with other Catholics. It’s unreasonable to expect every post to be in perfect compliance with Church teachings. Unless you want to read people lying. If you want to read the truth of what people think, this is what they’re posting. They would be dissenting if they were defecting in real life, and rallying for what they believe. I don’t know about where you live, but honestly most people don’t where I live. Well, they talk to me about it because I’m a nurse, but generally people keep contraception a private matter, and most people don’t discuss it publicly.
And what is the reaction when you tell people the above?
D
Debora123
Guest
Whoa, hello to you too! 
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ahs
Guest
That’s right. All I can do is speak the Truth and pray. I cannot force anyone to accept it. I also cannot shirk my duties as a Catholic and simply ignore occassions where I see my brothers and sisters defending opinions, beliefs, and behaviors that are contrary to the message of salvation. Catholics have a duty to one another in this effort…you can find references to this in your Catechism, paragraphs 900, 904-905, 1829, 1868-1869, 1912-1914, 2238, and 2465-2473 jsut to name a few.
Yes, this is a mesage board, and I have the right to start a thread in which I express my concern with people who are Catholic, yet dissent directly from Church teaching and defend sin by associating the sin with their personal views, beliefs, values, etc… How strongly they feel about being right is a moot point when it comes to Church Doctrine. It does not matter how right we feel in what we do. If the Church has directly told us that an act is contrary to God’s Law and we must give full assent to the Church’s teaching (as in the case in contraception) then we must give assent, regardless of our feelings or understanding.
And I don’t find any fault in any person who disagrees or does not understand. In fact, I don’t find fault with anyone, period. I only know what the Church teaches and I know that a grave sin can quickly become a mortal sin and I have a genuine fear for the spiritual well-being my brothers and sisters in Christ. This thread is not for pointing fingers; it is for bringing awareness and for calling Catholics to assent to the Faith which they have professed.
It is not for me to concern myself with a reaction. It is my duty, as well as yours, to profess the Truth without compromise within the boundaries of charity and just admonition (see the Catechism paragraphs I posted as well as the articles). Everything I have said is Truth, and can be supported and confirmed by the Teachings of the Church. I am speaking (typing) Truth for the good of our brothers and sisters, and for my good as well. How someone reacts to that is beyond my control…and you can find testament as to how many will react to Truth in our Scriptures. The majority of Catholics who proclaim the Truth are punished in one form or another by those who hate Truth. I can’t help that, so I submit my self to the fact that I will suffer.
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Nate13
Guest
Wow smart alek. Lets help the Huffington Post propaganda agendaWell, usually newspapers are not the most reliable source of information. I was asking the poster of the OP, since he/she might have done the research already. But, you are right, the info is out there. Like 98%… wow very interesting, indeed. Maybe there is hope for the world yet(tongue in cheek remark!)
If you read even the first line of the post you would realize that it states…“Some 98 percent of sexually active Catholic women have used contraceptive methods banned by the church, research published on Wednesday showed.”…Wow…so 98% of Catholics have sinned at some point in their lives…I’m so surprised. I bet 98% of Catholics have also stole something at some point in their lives
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Corki
Guest
Your views do not correspond with Church teaching.
Catholics are not to use NFP as the “default mode” in thier marriages. NFP is to be practiced if and only if there is a serious problem - a serious reason to delay or avoid another child. If that problem did not exist, using NFP would be wrong.
NFP can lead to selfishness or to emotional distance from one’s spouse. That’s not ideal. But a couple with a serious reason to avoid pregnancy has a few choices - some moral, some not. NFP is one of the moral choices **in spite of **its negative aspects.
B
Bookcat
Guest
At one end of the spectrum are those who…take the tried and true approach of “Faith seeking understanding”… 
on the other end of the spectrum are those who take the approach of a "do-it-yourself Faith…or worse…
Wonderful words for all readers to meditate on and indeed to return to often:
“Paul illustrates the same idea of a necessary renewal of our way of being human in two passages of his Letter to the Ephesians; let us therefore reflect on them briefly. In the Letter’s fourth chapter, the Apostle tells us that with Christ we must attain adulthood, a mature faith. We can no longer be “children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine…” (4: 14). Paul wants Christians to have a “responsible” and “adult faith”. The words “adult faith” in recent decades have formed a widespread slogan. It is often meant in the sense of the attitude of those who no longer listen to the Church and her Pastors but autonomously choose what they want to believe and not to believe hence a do-it-yourself faith. And it is presented as a “courageous” form of self-expression against the Magisterium of the Church. In fact, however, no courage is needed for this because one may always be certain of public applause. Rather, courage is needed to adhere to the Church’s faith, even if this contradicts the “logic” of the contemporary world. This is the non-conformism of faith which Paul calls an “adult faith”. It is the faith that he desires. On the other hand, he describes chasing the winds and trends of the time as infantile. Thus, being committed to the inviolability of human life from its first instant, thereby radically opposing the principle of violence also precisely in the defence of the most defenceless human creatures is part of an adult faith. It is part of an adult faith to recognize marriage between a man and a woman for the whole of life as the Creator’s ordering, newly re-established by Christ. Adult faith does not let itself be carried about here and there by any trend. It opposes the winds of fashion. It knows that these winds are not the breath of the Holy Spirit; it knows that the Spirit of God is expressed and manifested in communion with Jesus Christ. However, here too Paul does not stop at saying “no”, but rather leads us to the great “yes”. He describes the mature, truly adult faith positively with the words: “speaking the truth in love” (cf. Eph 4: 15). The new way of thinking, given to us by faith, is first and foremost a turning towards the truth. The power of evil is falsehood. The power of faith, the power of God, is the truth. The truth about the world and about ourselves becomes visible when we look to God. And God makes himself visible to us in the Face of Jesus Christ. In looking at Christ, we recognize something else: truth and love are inseparable. In God both are inseparably one; it is precisely this that is the essence of God. For Christians, therefore, truth and love go together. Love is the test of truth. We should always measure ourselves anew against this criterion, so that truth may become love and love may make us truthful.”
**
~Pope Benedict XVI**
(read the whole thing…it is splendid! Do not miss a word…
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino_en.html)
on the other end of the spectrum are those who take the approach of a "do-it-yourself Faith…or worse…
Wonderful words for all readers to meditate on and indeed to return to often:
“Paul illustrates the same idea of a necessary renewal of our way of being human in two passages of his Letter to the Ephesians; let us therefore reflect on them briefly. In the Letter’s fourth chapter, the Apostle tells us that with Christ we must attain adulthood, a mature faith. We can no longer be “children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine…” (4: 14). Paul wants Christians to have a “responsible” and “adult faith”. The words “adult faith” in recent decades have formed a widespread slogan. It is often meant in the sense of the attitude of those who no longer listen to the Church and her Pastors but autonomously choose what they want to believe and not to believe hence a do-it-yourself faith. And it is presented as a “courageous” form of self-expression against the Magisterium of the Church. In fact, however, no courage is needed for this because one may always be certain of public applause. Rather, courage is needed to adhere to the Church’s faith, even if this contradicts the “logic” of the contemporary world. This is the non-conformism of faith which Paul calls an “adult faith”. It is the faith that he desires. On the other hand, he describes chasing the winds and trends of the time as infantile. Thus, being committed to the inviolability of human life from its first instant, thereby radically opposing the principle of violence also precisely in the defence of the most defenceless human creatures is part of an adult faith. It is part of an adult faith to recognize marriage between a man and a woman for the whole of life as the Creator’s ordering, newly re-established by Christ. Adult faith does not let itself be carried about here and there by any trend. It opposes the winds of fashion. It knows that these winds are not the breath of the Holy Spirit; it knows that the Spirit of God is expressed and manifested in communion with Jesus Christ. However, here too Paul does not stop at saying “no”, but rather leads us to the great “yes”. He describes the mature, truly adult faith positively with the words: “speaking the truth in love” (cf. Eph 4: 15). The new way of thinking, given to us by faith, is first and foremost a turning towards the truth. The power of evil is falsehood. The power of faith, the power of God, is the truth. The truth about the world and about ourselves becomes visible when we look to God. And God makes himself visible to us in the Face of Jesus Christ. In looking at Christ, we recognize something else: truth and love are inseparable. In God both are inseparably one; it is precisely this that is the essence of God. For Christians, therefore, truth and love go together. Love is the test of truth. We should always measure ourselves anew against this criterion, so that truth may become love and love may make us truthful.”
**
~Pope Benedict XVI**
(read the whole thing…it is splendid! Do not miss a word…
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino_en.html)
B
Bookcat
Guest
At one end of the spectrum are those who…take the tried and true approach of “Faith seeking understanding”…
on the other end of the spectrum are those who take the approach of a "do-it-yourself Faith…or worse…
Wonderful words to meditate on and indeed to return to often from Pope Benedict XVI:
“Paul illustrates the same idea of a necessary renewal of our way of being human in two passages of his Letter to the Ephesians; let us therefore reflect on them briefly. In the Letter’s fourth chapter, the Apostle tells us that with Christ we must attain adulthood, a mature faith. We can no longer be “children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine…” (4: 14). Paul wants Christians to have a “responsible” and “adult faith”. The words “adult faith” in recent decades have formed a widespread slogan. It is often meant in the sense of the attitude of those who no longer listen to the Church and her Pastors but autonomously choose what they want to believe and not to believe hence a do-it-yourself faith. And it is presented as a “courageous” form of self-expression against the Magisterium of the Church. In fact, however, no courage is needed for this because one may always be certain of public applause. Rather, courage is needed to adhere to the Church’s faith, even if this contradicts the “logic” of the contemporary world. This is the non-conformism of faith which Paul calls an “adult faith”. It is the faith that he desires. On the other hand, he describes chasing the winds and trends of the time as infantile. Thus, being committed to the inviolability of human life from its first instant, thereby radically opposing the principle of violence also precisely in the defence of the most defenceless human creatures is part of an adult faith. It is part of an adult faith to recognize marriage between a man and a woman for the whole of life as the Creator’s ordering, newly re-established by Christ. Adult faith does not let itself be carried about here and there by any trend. It opposes the winds of fashion. It knows that these winds are not the breath of the Holy Spirit; it knows that the Spirit of God is expressed and manifested in communion with Jesus Christ. However, here too Paul does not stop at saying “no”, but rather leads us to the great “yes”. He describes the mature, truly adult faith positively with the words: “speaking the truth in love” (cf. Eph 4: 15). The new way of thinking, given to us by faith, is first and foremost a turning towards the truth. The power of evil is falsehood. The power of faith, the power of God, is the truth. The truth about the world and about ourselves becomes visible when we look to God. And God makes himself visible to us in the Face of Jesus Christ. In looking at Christ, we recognize something else: truth and love are inseparable. In God both are inseparably one; it is precisely this that is the essence of God. For Christians, therefore, truth and love go together. Love is the test of truth. We should always measure ourselves anew against this criterion, so that truth may become love and love may make us truthful.”
**
~Pope Benedict XVI**
(read the whole thing…it is splendid! Do not miss a word…
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino_en.html)
on the other end of the spectrum are those who take the approach of a "do-it-yourself Faith…or worse…
Wonderful words to meditate on and indeed to return to often from Pope Benedict XVI:
“Paul illustrates the same idea of a necessary renewal of our way of being human in two passages of his Letter to the Ephesians; let us therefore reflect on them briefly. In the Letter’s fourth chapter, the Apostle tells us that with Christ we must attain adulthood, a mature faith. We can no longer be “children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine…” (4: 14). Paul wants Christians to have a “responsible” and “adult faith”. The words “adult faith” in recent decades have formed a widespread slogan. It is often meant in the sense of the attitude of those who no longer listen to the Church and her Pastors but autonomously choose what they want to believe and not to believe hence a do-it-yourself faith. And it is presented as a “courageous” form of self-expression against the Magisterium of the Church. In fact, however, no courage is needed for this because one may always be certain of public applause. Rather, courage is needed to adhere to the Church’s faith, even if this contradicts the “logic” of the contemporary world. This is the non-conformism of faith which Paul calls an “adult faith”. It is the faith that he desires. On the other hand, he describes chasing the winds and trends of the time as infantile. Thus, being committed to the inviolability of human life from its first instant, thereby radically opposing the principle of violence also precisely in the defence of the most defenceless human creatures is part of an adult faith. It is part of an adult faith to recognize marriage between a man and a woman for the whole of life as the Creator’s ordering, newly re-established by Christ. Adult faith does not let itself be carried about here and there by any trend. It opposes the winds of fashion. It knows that these winds are not the breath of the Holy Spirit; it knows that the Spirit of God is expressed and manifested in communion with Jesus Christ. However, here too Paul does not stop at saying “no”, but rather leads us to the great “yes”. He describes the mature, truly adult faith positively with the words: “speaking the truth in love” (cf. Eph 4: 15). The new way of thinking, given to us by faith, is first and foremost a turning towards the truth. The power of evil is falsehood. The power of faith, the power of God, is the truth. The truth about the world and about ourselves becomes visible when we look to God. And God makes himself visible to us in the Face of Jesus Christ. In looking at Christ, we recognize something else: truth and love are inseparable. In God both are inseparably one; it is precisely this that is the essence of God. For Christians, therefore, truth and love go together. Love is the test of truth. We should always measure ourselves anew against this criterion, so that truth may become love and love may make us truthful.”
**
~Pope Benedict XVI**
(read the whole thing…it is splendid! Do not miss a word…
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino_en.html)
S
Spock
Guest
Minor steaing is not the same significance as contraception - for Catholics, of course. That is why I asked if anyone (especially the OP) has a reliable statistics about the subject. The number mentioned in the OP was 90% of Catholics habitually use some kind of contraceptive. It just so happens that I find that number highly interesting and encouraging. There are other statistics which also confirm that a very sizable percentage of Catholics support not only preventive contraception, but also abortion, thus being contrarian to the teachings of Rome. Looks like there are many Catholics who disagree with the tradition. The fact that an extremely traditional forum (this one, filled with the “lookalikes” of fundamentalist protestants) is troubled by this trend fills me with expectation about the future. (For the record, I have nothing against religious people in general. I feel a kinship toward those who are usually labelled as “librul” Catholics. At the same time I do not have any respect for the ultra-traditional folk (of any creed or religion) at all, and I cross my fingers for their demise. Sorry kiddos, that is the way the cookie crumbles.)Wow smart alek. Lets help the Huffington Post propaganda agenda
Mary_Gail_36
New member
I wanted to add to the OP…
We should not forget scandal
Scandal is possible for those Catholics who do struggle with teachings/ or those ignorant of teachings.
They could very well come on here looking for the** truth**, and find a thread with posters writing about their dissension of the Church on whatever issue.
Someone could very well come here not knowing or understanding the teachings on contraception, for example, and find statements by Catholics saying that contraception is hunky dory, it helped their marriage, the Church is in error. Then this person thinks what is written here is actual Church teaching, or that Church teaching is subjective to how easy it is to follow.
SCANDAL!
We should not forget scandal
This is an open forum. The things discussed here can be “googled”. Anyone can stumble into these discussions.
Scandal is possible for those Catholics who do struggle with teachings/ or those ignorant of teachings.
They could very well come on here looking for the** truth**, and find a thread with posters writing about their dissension of the Church on whatever issue.
Someone could very well come here not knowing or understanding the teachings on contraception, for example, and find statements by Catholics saying that contraception is hunky dory, it helped their marriage, the Church is in error. Then this person thinks what is written here is actual Church teaching, or that Church teaching is subjective to how easy it is to follow.
SCANDAL!
- Status