Catholics who support abortion should not receive Communion, says Archbishop Burke

[Fitswimmer]

Maybe he thinks he has to spell it out for all the needy members of his flock that may not see the public support of abortion as a mortal sin.

I have yet to see public figures support infidelity on the 6:00 news.

I have seen much more support for other mortal sins among Catholics than I have abortion, and I have certainly seen much more support for other mortal sins in society in general.

 

[SHEMP]

Is that still going on somewhere? Are there US politicians publicly in support of either? If not, the argument is specious.

Clearly those were crimes against humanity. Human rights were systematically denied. In the case of slavery an argument was used (the junior senator from Illinois, Senator Douglas) that each state and each individual should decide the issue for themself and that others should not imposed their morality upon the slave owner or the slave state. There would have been a moral obligation to reject this position. Support of that position with a vote would be cooperation with evil.

In the case of Nazi Germany. The Nazi’s broke no German Laws. That was a characteristic of a “good” Nazi. They were great book keepers and law makers. They did things by the book. They and those who supported these actions violated “natural law” and were, in many cases, convicted for violating unwritten “crimes against humanity”. Certainly those who would argue that the Nazi’s had the right to make their laws as they saw fit would be cooperating with evil.

Abortion violates that natural rights of human beings. It denies all human rights to these individuals. Any argument that claims that we cannot interfere with another person’s decision to kill these defenseless humans is evil. The magnitude of this evil is about 1.3 million human lives per year. The more amazing thing is it is allowing mothers to kill their children with a blessing that it is a reasonable “choice”.

 

[rlg94086]

I have seen much more support for other mortal sins among Catholics than I have abortion, and I have certainly seen much more support for other mortal sins in society in general.

What is your point?? Because there are many, many other mortal sins in society, the Church should not be specific? I don’t understand your logic. That would be like nutritionists only being allowed to make sweeping statements like “don’t eat food that is bad for you,” rather than making specific dietary recommendations.

I’m glad the Archbishop is being clear on abortion. It is important that we confront this evil head on. Catholics who take the “personally pro-life but support ‘the right to choose’” stance need to understand that they are still supporting abortion.

 

[SHEMP]

I have seen much more support for other mortal sins among Catholics than I have abortion, and I have certainly seen much more support for other mortal sins in society in general.

Do those other mortal sins contributes to the destruction of 1.3 million human lives per year in the US?

 

[stbruno]

Finally, a definitive answer that the rest of the world’s bishops can refer to. Now do they have the initiative to do that. More reasons to pray for the Holy Spirit to give all bishops the strength, fortitude, wisdom, knowledge, courage, reverence and awe of the Lord to get the message out to all their flock.

 

[Fitswimmer]

What is your point?? Because there are many, many other mortal sins in society, the Church should not be specific? I don’t understand your logic. That would be like nutritionists only being allowed to make sweeping statements like “don’t eat food that is bad for you,” rather than making specific dietary recommendations.

I’m glad the Archbishop is being clear on abortion. It is important that we confront this evil head on. Catholics who take the “personally pro-life but support ‘the right to choose’” stance need to understand that they are still supporting abortion.

My point is that it’s a one note song. The best way to properly articulate Church teaching is to show how it connects logically. By isolating one issue, we lose that. Church teaching on abortion is built on a foundation, and we are more likely to convince people of the correctness of our position when we show the foundation the teaching is built on.

 

[maggiemay2u]

I used your example re: infidelity.

I question, other than anecdotally, your premise, “I have seen much more support for other mortal sins among Catholics than I have abortion…” Please site the studies associated with the statement.

I have seen much more support for other mortal sins among Catholics than I have abortion, and I have certainly seen much more support for other mortal sins in society in general.

 

[SHEMP]

My point is that it’s a one note song. The best way to properly articulate Church teaching is to show how it connects logically. By isolating one issue, we lose that. Church teaching on abortion is built on a foundation, and we are more likely to convince people of the correctness of our position when we show the foundation the teaching is built on.

Abortion is a central teaching issue as it denies all human rights to 1.3 million humans in the US per year. The Church clearly thinks this is a central issue. This is less about sin and more about the dignity of the human person. The idea that a human person has dignity because the person is loved by God not because of health, wealth, beauty, etc. When the most defenseless human life has no dignity or rights in a culture this clearly becomes the central issue of the time. Why start anywhere else?

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I was going to multi-text many of the responses to make a point. However the sheer quantity of the replies made it quite well. Suffice to say, that to be truly Catholic, one must believe and practice ALL that the Catholic Church believes and teaches. The idea of cafeteria catholicism just does not fly. I believe this, but not that. I will do this but not that. This is why we have the magisterium as the official teaching body of the Church. Too many confuse our constitutional freedom of choice to apply to the beliefs we can accept or reject with the teachings of the Catholic Church. It is not a democracy. It is a Theocracy. If you do not believe that, you are not truly Catholic, no matter what you call yourself.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[maggiemay2u]

My point is that it’s a one note song. The best way to properly articulate Church teaching is to show how it connects logically. By isolating one issue, we lose that. Church teaching on abortion is built on a foundation, and we are more likely to convince people of the correctness of our position when we show the foundation the teaching is built on.

Please refer to the " No Compromises: Kansas State Bishops Declare Voting for Abortion Candidate is “Evil” thread. The first post clearly articulates there is a whole symphony, not just one note.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I used your example re: infidelity.

I question, other than anecdotally, your premise, “I have seen much more support for other mortal sins among Catholics than I have abortion…” Please site the studies associated with the statement.

I can’t link to the statistical data(CAF Rules) , but it’s out there. Catholics no longer believe that many mortal sins are actually that anymore. Good grief, there have been studies done showing that a large percentage don’t believe in the Real Presence! All you have to do is spend some time talking to Catholics that aren’t on CAF and you’ll find a wide range of opinions that would likely surprise you. How many Catholics receive who are divorced? I know more than a few in my parish, and I know they didn’t bother with annulments (“too expensive”). I know Catholics who support abortion rights, euthanasia, stem cell research, the death penalty and other life issues.

If we disconnect abortion from other mortal sins, we lose something. We lose the chance to show how our opposition to abortion is part of a greater whole.

 

[estesbob]

Just curious because he only specified abortion. I would think it would have been better phrased: “Catholics who support Mortal Sin should not receive Communion.”

Unfortunately there way too many Catholics who don’t think supporting abortion is a mortal sin. And the main reason for this is the American Catholic bishops silence on this for most of the last 35 years.

The main rationalization, by the way, is that politicians who support abortion are really opposed to it while politicians who are opposed to abortion don’t really care about at all. Very very convoluted logic and and it is easily disproved but too many Catholics are reluctant to let go of the party of their forefathers.

 

[rlg94086]

My point is that it’s a one note song. The best way to properly articulate Church teaching is to show how it connects logically. By isolating one issue, we lose that. Church teaching on abortion is built on a foundation, and we are more likely to convince people of the correctness of our position when we show the foundation the teaching is built on.

I think the Archbishop did a great job of “showing how it connects logically.”

“Receiving the Body and Blood of Christ unworthily is a sacrilege,” he warned. “If it is done deliberately in mortal sin it is a sacrilege.”

To illustrate his point, he referred to “public officials who, with knowledge and consent, uphold actions that are against the Divine and Eternal moral law." He then gave the example of politicians who "support abortion, which entails the taking of innocent and defenseless human lives. A person who commits sin in this way should be publicly admonished in such a way as to not receive Communion until he or she has reformed his life,” the archbishop said.

I guess he could have been a little more broad and included the other non-negotiable life issues: cloning, embryonic stem-cell research, gay “marriage” and euthenasia. That would have been a good thing, but I am happy he made the statement and used abortion to “illustrate his point.”

 

[estesbob]

My point is that it’s a one note song. The best way to properly articulate Church teaching is to show how it connects logically. By isolating one issue, we lose that. Church teaching on abortion is built on a foundation, and we are more likely to convince people of the correctness of our position when we show the foundation the teaching is built on.

All rights flow from the right to life. The church ihas made it very clear that no issue or combination of issues trumps abortion when considering a candidate. It doesn’t help the child who was killed in the womb very much if the politician who supported their killing also supports taxpayer-funded day care.

 

[mary_bobo]

Unfortunately there way too many Catholics who don’t think supporting abortion is a mortal sin. And the main reason for this is the American Catholic bishops silence on this for most of the last 35 years.

The main rationalization, by the way, is that politicians who support abortion are really opposed to it while politicians who are opposed to abortion don’t really care about at all. Very very convoluted logic and and it is easily disproved but too many Catholics are reluctant to let go of the party of their forefathers.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but my forefathers would not recognize their party today.

 

[estesbob]

I can’t speak for anyone else, but my forefathers would not recognize their party today.

Me neither, but my parents remain staunch yellow dog Democrats to this day. To them it is still the party of Roosevelt. To me it is a party of Ted Kennedy.

 

[maggiemay2u]

I can’t link to the statistical data(CAF Rules) , but it’s out there. Catholics no longer believe that many mortal sins are actually that anymore. Good grief, there have been studies done showing that a large percentage don’t believe in the Real Presence! All you have to do is spend some time talking to Catholics that aren’t on CAF and you’ll find a wide range of opinions that would likely surprise you. How many Catholics receive who are divorced? I know more than a few in my parish, and I know they didn’t bother with annulments (“too expensive”). I know Catholics who support abortion rights, euthanasia, stem cell research, the death penalty and other life issues.

If we disconnect abortion from other mortal sins, we lose something. We lose the chance to show how our opposition to abortion is part of a greater whole.

Many people declare themselves “Catholic” when they are in fact, lapsed Catholics or “cafeterias”. That’s why I wanted you to reference the studies. You needn’t provide a link, though I have seen a plethora of links on CAF, but I would like to dig into the statistical protocol used.

You continue to site your parish, where apparently the gossip mills work overtime. In other threads I have asked the same question, do any of these purveyors of gossip talk to the pastor about the situation, or merely continue sniping behind the backs of others?

I know Catholics who have questioned stem-cell, but usually they have bought into the 6:00 news version, as opposed to the facts (adult stem cell has been demonstrate to combat disorders, embryonic is still on the drawing board). Some are sympathetic to euthanasia, but are unfamiliar with Church teaching about extraordinary means. Death penalty support, to my knowledge, while objectionable, has not been classified as a mortal sin(if I’m wrong, I’m sure I’ll know about it soon )

 

[Ender]

My point is that it’s a one note song. The best way to properly articulate Church teaching is to show how it connects logically. By isolating one issue, we lose that. Church teaching on abortion is built on a foundation, and we are more likely to convince people of the correctness of our position when we show the foundation the teaching is built on.

Before he was appointed to his present post in the Vatican, Archbishop Burke wrote a 50+ page document explaining in detail why canon 915 (the withholding of communion) should be applied. If you want to know how all of the Church teachings are tied together to reach that conclusion, read his paper.

therealpresence.org/eucharst/holycom/denial.htm

The most glaring example of cases where 915 should be applied is to politicians who publicly support abortion. Surely there are other examples that could have been used but abortion is not only the most egregious case but also the most public one. If 915 doesn’t apply here it doesn’t apply anywhere.

Ender

 

[Donna_Mc]

I was going to multi-text many of the responses to make a point. However the sheer quantity of the replies made it quite well. Suffice to say, that to be truly Catholic, one must believe and practice ALL that the Catholic Church believes and teaches. The idea of cafeteria catholicism just does not fly. I believe this, but not that. I will do this but not that. This is why we have the magisterium as the official teaching body of the Church. Too many confuse our constitutional freedom of choice to apply to the beliefs we can accept or reject with the teachings of the Catholic Church. It is not a democracy. It is a Theocracy. If you do not believe that, you are not truly Catholic, no matter what you call yourself.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

Great post Deacon!
I have great respect for Archbishop Burke for taking a stand
for the truth.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Many people declare themselves “Catholic” when they are in fact, lapsed Catholics or “cafeterias”. That’s why I wanted you to reference the studies. You needn’t provide a link, though I have seen a plethora of links on CAF, but I would like to dig into the statistical protocol used.

You continue to site your parish, where apparently the gossip mills work overtime. In other threads I have asked the same question, do any of these purveyors of gossip talk to the pastor about the situation, or merely continue sniping behind the backs of others?

I know Catholics who have questioned stem-cell, but usually they have bought into the 6:00 news version, as opposed to the facts (adult stem cell has been demonstrate to combat disorders, embryonic is still on the drawing board). Some are sympathetic to euthanasia, but are unfamiliar with Church teaching about extraordinary means. Death penalty support, to my knowledge, while objectionable, has not been classified as a mortal sin(if I’m wrong, I’m sure I’ll know about it soon )

I no longer belong to that parish, I left because of the gossip mill. The Pastor could not control it-he gave sermons about the evil of gossip and slander, even spoke personally to the main offenders, but to no avail. They are all generous benefactors and they make their own rules. I don’t know who they’re going after now that I’m gone, but I’m sure they’ve found someone.