Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'

[AMDGtoo]

Yes, I was kneeling at an alter rail in1967. I remember Masses back then (or before) in Latin, then later in English.

Same here, even in early '69 (was traveling across country in late 1969 so when the altar rails started to disappear in the '70s I thought it was a geographical thing at first.) I still have some of the old missals and responsorial cards and all from before the Council and after the Council though. I remember that at first the congregation’s response was the Latin “Et Cum Spiritu tuo”, then the English, “And with your spirit”, then finally, “And with you”. Glad we’re finally going back to a more accurate translation of the Latin.

 

[Jenny_Z]

my priest yesterday said it would happen advent of 2010.

Aaw man. That’s so far away

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

Aaw man. That’s so far away

God willing, I’ll be ordained a priest next spring, so I’ll only have a year or so before these beautiful changes become effective.

 

[Phemie]

Aaw man. That’s so far away

As I understand it we have to wait for the entire Roman Missal to be translated. There are still several parts left to go and one such just had the translation rejected by the American Bishops.

 

[benedictgal]

Here’s the old translation: “Let your Spirit come upon these gifts, to make them holy.”

Here’s the new one: “Make holy, therefore, these gifts, we pray, by sending down your Spirit upon them like the dewfall.”

And the familiar refrain, “Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again”? That’s been deleted. Frankly, those two changes I’m not too crazy about.

Actually, this Memorial Acclamation should never have been inserted in the first place, as it does not appear in the Latin version of the Roman Missal. This was a bad ICEL innovation.

The Memorial Acclamation, the Mystery of Faith, adderssed the Son in the second person. It is directed at him by us and is in the “you”. The “Christ has died” innovation is in the third person and not really directed at anyone. I’m happy that this is gone. In fact, it is too bad that all of the musical settings were written to this one as opposed to the correct three.

The language in the new translations is much more beautiful and certainly fitting for the liturgy. There is a poetry to it that is not found in what we currently have in use. We have to realize that when we come to Mass we are doing something out of the ordinary. Everything changes. We are in the presence of the divine majesty of God. We need to give him our best.

 

[benedictgal]

So those of us Spanish speakers will finally see some unity in translation, as it seems quite weird to me when I say responses in Spanish which are way off from the English.

It was strange to say and with your spirit in Spanish, find out that is what the response should be and then be saying something that always reminds me of the Stars Wars, may the force be with you, and also with you.

We will sound a bit more dignified and actually have bit more accuracy in our translation in the English. How nice!

Thank goodness, I cannot wait until we start to use the new corrected translation.

Scylla

Yes. At least they have gotten the translation right so that it jibes with “Anunciamos to muerte, proclamamos tu resurreccion. Ven Senor Jesus.” What boggles my mind is when the start singing Cristo ha muerto, Cristo ha resucitado. Cristo, Cristo de nuevo vendra. That is not even in the Mexican version of the Roman Missal that we use here in the States.

 

[SMHW]

The ‘new’ form of “Lord I am not worthy…” isn’t new but will be a return to what was said pre-Vatican Two!

It doesn’t seem like too many of us remember the responses prior to the revised missal. I think some people think we went directly from “Dòminus vobìscum” and “Et cum spiritu tuo” to “The Lord Be With You” and “And also with you”.

Actually I don’t even remember saying “Lord I am not worthy…” in Latin. But I definitely remember saying “Lord I am not worthy that You should come under my roof. Speak but the word and my soul shall be healed.”

 

[JesuXPIPassio]

Ahimsa:
Geez, I can’t believe this happened without me even being aware of it. Thanks for posting it up; if not for you, I probably wouldn’t know about it, which really is a shame that something this important could go unnoticed.

I went to the USCCB site to try to find info about this and I found this, in case if anyone is interested:
usccb.org/comm/archives/2008/08-108.shtml
It’s not very detailed. Does anyone know of any official websites that cover this more thoroughly?

 

[AMDGtoo]

Actually I don’t even remember saying “Lord I am not worthy…” in Latin. But I definitely remember saying “Lord I am not worthy that You should come under my roof. Speak but the word and my soul shall be healed.”

Me too.

And I know that first we answered the priest’s “Dominus Vobiscum” in the Latin “Et Cum Spiritu Tuo” (I have the missal response card right here), then when things went to the vernacular, it was “And With Your Spirit” and then finally it was “And with you”. Never did figure out how that translation was settled on from the Latin though.

I can hardly wait for the implementation. Have waited sooo long.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

It has been long. Seeing the proposed start date of 2010 means it will pretty much be 40 years. (And makes me VERY sympathetic to the people of the Exodus who wandered in the desert 40 years. . .)

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

It has been long. Seeing the proposed start date of 2010 means it will pretty much be 40 years. (And makes me VERY sympathetic to the people of the Exodus who wandered in the desert 40 years. . .)

Hmm? I could use that Exodus analogy…good one!

I am very much anticipating the new translations. I just hope that Rome didn’t make any more concessions to the inclusive language crowd.

 

[AngloCatholic1]

This is BIG.

This is all VERY interesting for me because although I’m not an actual Roman Catholic persay (at least not yet), I do think I have some insight into where this is all coming from. Allow me to explain. I’m a member of the Traditional Anglican Communion (TAC). Our churches broke away from the mainstream Anglican Communion some 30 years ago when they started ordaining women as “Priests”. Over the years the TAC has seen steady growth, and in recent years (thanks to the homosexual “marriage” issue) very rapid growth. In Africa the TAC churches cannot be built fast enough. Last year our Primate (Archbishop John Hepworth of Australia) met with Pope Benedict XVI to propose a FULL corporate and sacramental union with the RC church.

Since that time we’ve been patiently waiting for a reply, and in the meantime we’ve all been wondering about what changes might be made to our Book of Common Prayer. It seems to me that this change to the English Mass is the ANSWER! I’ve looked through the changes and many of the verses are in line with the Traditional Anglican liturgy we are ALREADY using in the TAC (And with THY spirit!).

The recent Lambeth conference has shown that the Anglican communion is in a shambles, fundamentally divided over deep social issues such as female “Priests”, homosexuality, abortion, etc. I think that when the Vatican discloses its offer of UNITY with the TAC (which is fully inline with the Vatican on ALL these issues) IT WILL DRAW MILLIONS OF ANGLICANS BACK INTO THE ARMS OF HOLY MOTHER CHURCH… thus reversing (and healing) the great division first wrought by King Henry VIII almost 500 years ago. A glorious day indeed!!!

 

[jmcrae]

The recent Lambeth conference has shown that the Anglican communion is in a shambles, fundamentally divided over deep social issues such as female “Priests”, homosexuality, abortion, etc. I think that when the Vatican discloses its offer of UNITY with the TAC (which is fully inline with the Vatican on ALL these issues) IT WILL DRAW MILLIONS OF ANGLICANS BACK INTO THE ARMS OF HOLY MOTHER CHURCH… thus reversing (and healing) the great division first wrought by King Henry VIII almost 500 years ago. A glorious day indeed!!!

This certainly explains the timing of it.

I’m guessing we’ll see you at Mass, in Advent of 2010.

 

[redrosetea]

I like these changes very much. I like the fact we will once again be striking our breast

I think that it is going to make the liturgy more beautiful

 

[notsmart]

The new wording before communion is straight out of the bible, not just a pre vat 2 thing.

Recall the centurian telling Jesus he was not worthy of him coming under his roof, but if he would only say the word…
Being a solider, he must have looked at it, as giving an order, that only someone with authority could make.

So, I like that one better:thumbsup:

I have no idea about this dew thing, sounds new age.

 

[Ahimsa]

I have no idea about this dew thing, sounds new age.

No, you have it all wrong. Dew is a gnostic thang.

 

[VociMike]

I have no idea about this dew thing, sounds new age.

It’s from Isaiah. Search “rorate coeli”.

 

[notsmart]

No, you have it all wrong. Dew is a gnostic thang.

Can you find anything else that is troubling here? You seem to know what chrisitians consider heresy. I am troubled by this, and it may stop me from RCIA.

 

[Ahimsa]

Can you find anything else that is troubling here? You seem to know what chrisitians consider heresy. I am troubled by this, and it may stop me from RCIA.

Sorry, I was just kidding. I should have put a “” afterwards.

Dew is completely biblical.

 

[jmcrae]

Can you find anything else that is troubling here? You seem to know what chrisitians consider heresy. I am troubled by this, and it may stop me from RCIA.

I think he was kidding. (I hope!) Anyhow, the language is very traditional - not “new age” at all - it’s been around a lot longer than the New Age movement.