"Catholism ain't Christian" . . . Oh, Really?

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if someone claims to be Catholic, and yet denies being christian, he cuts himself off from the church, he loses his way. After denying that one is christian, willingly, one must keep in mind that “You are either with me or against me.” How can someone claim to be Catholic, and yet not christian?? It is impossible. no amount of fancy rhetoric or immature philosophy can prove otherwise. Look at what the Catechsim defines a Catholic as. Look at what the world of believers defines Catholicism as.
So I do agree with the overwhelming majority of Protestants that we Catholics and Protestants can not be “Christians” at a time, unless we are ignorant of our faiths or even worst dishonest about ourselves…
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I fear that you, Marko Pasa, have fallen into your own lofty ideas. Keep in mind, loftiness is something for people who look for a higher authority, not one who finds it, and then questions the basic principle of that higher authority. Are you saying that anyone who claims to be catholic and Christian is an ignorant fool? Want to write Rome with that attitude? I fear you may have already ostracized yourself from this forum, and I pray you don’t ostracize youself from all the faithful, not just here, but in the world.

It is not your place or our plac to judge, to conjure up our own “Catholic” beliefs. Everyone has sin, and everyone at some point or another doubts the faith. Do not look upon this as a fauly condemning us to a death of stupidity, but rather, a test from God, who is Father Son and Holy Spirit. To deny his Son is to deny the Father.
 
DaisyD said:
So you are admitting as a catholic, you are not a Christian?
I bet many of the members here might be offended by that statement.
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Sheesh, I never said I am not a christian. What I am trying to say is Catholics and a vast majority of Protestants can not be christians at a time since they don’t believe in The same Christ.

But I did say I, as a Catholic, would 100% agree with any anti-Catholic Protestant who would say Catholics are not Christians… Why ? Because I know what they mean by “Christian”…

A “Christianity” whose Jesus never says what is in his heart…?
A “Christianity” whose Mary can only be the mother of human Jesus but not the divine one…?

No thanks I am not a “Christian”…

How many Protestants do you know who would believe in;

The Eucharistic real presence and the baptismal regeneration like Luther did ?

Or how many Protestants do you think would 100% agree with Martin Luther about Our Lady’s Immaculate conception, about her petual virginity and sinlessness, and about her motherhood of the divinity??

Protestants are not even true to their historic roots in reformation to begin with. Never mind to the apostolic and the patristic roots of historic and traditional Christianity…

Howcome Protestants might possibly be our “bretheren” while they keep blaspheming The Holy Eucharist and The Most Holy Mother of God ?? The most fundamental two dogmas of Apostolic and Patristic Christianity… If there is any Catholic who would even dare to call Protestants as our “bretheren”, either he is ignorant or he is dishonest about his faith…

Bottom line is we Catholics and they Protestants believe in two distinctly different and distant Christianities…

If you call Protestants as Christians, than you have to say that Catholics are not Christians if you are not a dishonest person.

But if you believe that Catholics are Christians, than you have to admit that Protestants cannot be Christians if you are sincere and honest with your faith in Roman Catholicism which is deeply rooted in Apostolic and Patristic Christianity. Period…
Serve and honour and worship The Eucharistic Lord.

The Eucharist feeds me in my body.
But She fed The Eucharist in Her body.

All creation have to call Him “My Lord and My God”
But only She has the privilege of calling Him “My Baby”
 
marko_pasa said:
Sheesh, I never said I am not a christian. What I am trying to say is Catholics and a vast majority of Protestants can not be christians at a time since they don’t believe in The same Christ …
[snip snip snip]

… with your faith in Roman Catholicism which is deeply rooted in Apostolic and Patristic Christianity. Period…
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I believe I’ve now got the gist of your argument–forgive me if my paraphase oversimplifies it: “It’s Protestants who aren’t Christians, but if they insist on calling themselves by that word, then I don’t want it applied to me.”

Well, suit yourself: I’ll take care not to use that … word in reference to you. Shouldn’t be too difficult.
 
I doubt that this is what old-fashioned anti-Catholics mean by saying “Catholicism isn’t Christian,” but some rank-and-file Cathoics might agree with the charge.

Nearly all the Catholics I have met in person–certainly not the folks on this list–have been poster boys for poor catechesis (and I certainly didn’t learn that word from them). I’ve had acquaintances who, when asked, identified themselves as “Catholic,” but were fuzzy about whether this amounted to being “Christian”–indeed, about the basic tenets of Catholic or Protestant Christianity. Perhaps they only went to church a few times a year; perhaps they were napping during catechesis/Sunday school/whatever; I couldn’t say. I’ve also met several people who are functionally *ex-*Catholics, no longer believing in a God of any sort, but who call themselves “Catholic” in vague terms of rearing and cultural inheritance.

Perhaps we could say that these common modern specimens do exhibit a sort of Catholicism without Christianity.
 
Where my church members are quite ok with Catholics, although they find their practise are alittle different. But i do have pple coming from other tradition churches asking me to be careful when they heard me going for Mass!! But did not speak ill about the CC.

Who ever are Christian are those who believe in Jesus Christ!!! As simple as that, coz we aim hindus, Buddhist, Muslim…blar…blar
 
reneeville said:
God bless you in you in your upcoming Confirmation! Invite your family to attend your special day… the worst they can do is say no, but if you don’t invite them, they don’t even have that option. Who knows! They may attend and have a conversion experience too!!
In Christ’s love,
Renee
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Thank you! I will tell them, it would mean a lot if they do go. I just hate the complete disinterest they convey towards this important step in my life. I suppose all I can do is pray for God guidance and will.🙂

God Bless
 
Now let me ask a straightforward question in order to understand how serious or how lukewarm are our own Catholic folks with their own faith…

Howcome anyone can deny that Mary is The Most Holy Mother of God, and might still possibly become a “Christian” ??

Howcome anyone can deny and blaspheme The Most Fundamental Dogma of Christianity, The Eucharistic Real Presence, and might still become a “Christian” ??
Serve and honour and worship The Eucharistic Lord

The Eucharist feeds me in my body.
But She fed The Eucharist in Her body.

All creation have to call Him “My Lord and My God”
But only She has the privilege of calling Him “My Baby”
 
Catholics, why don’t you call the most blasphemous and most blatant heresy with its own ugly and disgusting name ???

Now please somebody should explain to me what makes you think that those blasphemers of The Most Holy Mother of God and The Holy Eucharist might possibly become our “christian” “bretheren” ??
Serve and hounour and worship The Eucharistic Lord

The Eucharist feeds me in my body.
But She fed The Eucharist in Her Body.

All creation have to call Him “My Lord and My God”.
But only She has the privilege of calling Him “My Baby”.
 
***We are all God’s children.

Love your enemy as yourself.***
Sound familiar?

MP-**Protestants are Christians because they believe in Christ. **isn’t that blatant enough? However, some of their doctrines are not correct. the Catholic church has the correct doctrine.

Also, **the Church teaches that Lither, Zwingli, Calvin were the heretics, not their followers. **Don’t be so swift to judge! Modern day Protestants are not heretics and blasphemers in the strictest sense because they were raised that way. What you are saying goes against Catholic doctrine, so i ask that you read and think before posting anything militant. Please, we are all brothers and sisters in the faith, it’s just that some don’t realize it and some don’t want it.
 
I wish you had entered the option, “Mostly anti-Catholic”. I would have cheked it. I could not say all because I have met a few who were genuinely not: very few indeed. I say most because most of those who, on the surface are not, actually are wuite so when you start discussing thier doctrines and find out what kind of pastors they prefer to listen to.
 
Friend_Of_Rome said:
MP-**Protestants are Christians because they believe in Christ. **
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So do Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, Christian Science, Worldwide Church of God, Unification Church, Unitarians, Children of God, Branch Davidians, Swedenborgians, Arians, Docetics, Adoptionosts, and Marcionists…

Don’t be so swift to judge these dear bretheren in Christ eh ? But make sure read and think before posting anything militant against thine dear bretheren above. Please, we are all brothers and sisters in faith. 😉

Because you are lukewarm,

I will vomit you out of My mouth.
Sound familiar ?
Serve and honour and worship The Eucharistic Lord.

The Eucharist feeds me in my body.
But She fed The Eucharist in Her Body.

All creation have to call Him “My Lord and My God”.
But only She has the privilege of calling Him “My Baby”.
 
marko_pasa said:
So do Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, Christian Science, Worldwide Church of God, Unification Church, Unitarians, Children of God, Branch Davidians, Swedenborgians, Arians, Docetics, Adoptionosts, and Marcionists…

Don’t be so swift to judge these dear bretheren in Christ eh ? But make sure read and think before posting anything militant against thine dear bretheren above. Please, we are all brothers and sisters in faith. 😉

Because you are lukewarm,

I will vomit you out of My mouth.
Sound familiar ?
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Okay … I’m aware that there are some anti-Catholic Protestants out there, but I’ll hand it to this one—not many of them are motivated enough to try their hands as a provocateur and post bogus messages in the hope of making Catholics look malevolent and dim. Now, this “Marko_Pasa” character you’ve created is amusing, but it’s the sort of persona that seldom exists outside the imaginations of Catholic-haters: more of a cartoon than a credible impersonation. I applaud your creativity, but recommend a little more verisimilitude. And now that I think of it, there’s only one rabidly anti-Catholic Protestant out there with the ill will, ambition, and time on his hands to try something like this:

Nice try, Mister Chick, but we’re on to you.
 
marko_pasa said:
So do Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, Christian Science, Worldwide Church of God, Unification Church, Unitarians, Children of God, Branch Davidians, Swedenborgians, Arians, Docetics, Adoptionosts, and Marcionists…

Don’t be so swift to judge these dear bretheren in Christ eh ? But make sure read and think before posting anything militant against thine dear bretheren above. Please, we are all brothers and sisters in faith. 😉

Because you are lukewarm,

I will vomit you out of My mouth.
Sound familiar ?
Serve and honour and worship The Eucharistic Lord.

The Eucharist feeds me in my body.
But She fed The Eucharist in Her Body.

All creation have to call Him “My Lord and My God”.
But only She has the privilege of calling Him “My Baby”.
Click to expand...
There is no charity in your messages.
 
marko_pasa said:
Sheesh, I never said I am not a christian. What I am trying to say is Catholics and a vast majority of Protestants can not be christians at a time since they don’t believe in The same Christ.

No thanks I am not a “Christian”…

How many Protestants do you know who would believe in;

The Eucharistic real presence and the baptismal regeneration like Luther did ?

Protestants are not even true to their historic roots in reformation to begin with. Never mind to the apostolic and the patristic roots of historic and traditional Christianity…

Howcome Protestants might possibly be our “bretheren” while they keep blaspheming The Holy Eucharist and The Most Holy Mother of God ?? The most fundamental two dogmas of Apostolic and Patristic Christianity… If there is any Catholic who would even dare to call Protestants as our “bretheren”, either he is ignorant or he is dishonest about his faith…

Bottom line is we Catholics and they Protestants believe in two distinctly different and distant Christianities…

If you call Protestants as Christians, than you have to say that Catholics are not Christians if you are not a dishonest person.

But if you believe that Catholics are Christians, than you have to admit that Protestants cannot be Christians if you are sincere and honest with your faith in Roman Catholicism which is deeply rooted in Apostolic and Patristic Christianity. Period…
Serve and honour and worship The Eucharistic Lord.

The Eucharist feeds me in my body.
But She fed The Eucharist in Her body.

All creation have to call Him “My Lord and My God”
But only She has the privilege of calling Him “My Baby”
Click to expand...
Protestants are Christians. If somebody who is a Protestant and has been baptized in the Trinitarian formula converts to Catholicism, he is not rebaptized.
 
Here’s a story that might add some depth to the question-

About a month ago, my parrents were given a new salesman. They own/run their own bakery, so we are always using different companies to supply us. This salesman came in, and promptly started talking about the “saving power of Our lord Jesus Christ.” We instantly realized he was not a Catholic, so we said nothing to provoke him. However, he turned to my mother and said, “Your place is home. Women belong home to take care of the family, not out flaunting themselves.” First of all, my mother is sixty, so she would’t be flaunting herself. Secondly, she works to send me to a Catholic school, a jesuit School. Well, they promptly opened their mouths and defended our family and our faith. (He had also made some derisive comments about the Church and the pope.) We placed an order via phone about a week later, and haven’t heard from him since.

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.

Brings to mind how God was heard as a whisper by moses and abraham.
 
Most of the Protestants I know are not anti-Catholic (although they don’t agree with Catholic doctrines) and can spell “Catholicism”. Really, it’s a silly side-issue to mock people over typing “Catholism” - after all Protestants could respond in like manner over Catholic misunderstandings of Protestant issues.
 
Howdie Jack,
it’s not so silly when you have entire websites devoted
to exposing “Catholism.”

One ought to at least be able to spell
that which you are supposed to be an expert on.

🙂
 
It’s better to refute the arguments of the websites tho
Poor spelling does not mean the arguments are necessarily invalid (nor the opposite)
 
I apologize up front for not having read entirely through this thread. However, to expedite what I believe to be the real answer to this problem falls under ArchBishop Fulton J. Sheen’s quote some time back before I was born in the 60’s. He said that there are probably not more than 100 people that hate the actual Catholic Church, but there are probably millions that hate what they think the Catholic Church to be.

I personally believe that the very hateful reaction to Catholicism is somewhat similar to the hatred that developed between racists and minorities. This method has been used throughout history to control the minds of people. During WWII history shows that there was an all out campaign to demonize Germans. My family was inerogated by the FBI, but we prevailed as loyal Americans.

I find it ironic that Protestants think they believe in “solo scriptura”. But my personal experience after being totally emerged into a few different groups that teach Bible Only have a Majesterium and Tradition of their own. It took a while to really see it, but try to go against their teaching and see what happens. My wife’s family is very strong in the Church of Chirst, an alledged non-denominational group that supposedly has restored the early church teachings by going back to the bible. Funny thing is that the collection of scriptures known as the bible today were not solidified into the Bible until the 3rd to 4th century. I believe that it was at the Council of Nicea (?). So what a contradition. I understand how difficult it is for people to come to the truth now if you head is burried in the dirt. But change is difficult.

Part of blame for the defections is the Catholic Church clergy for not having truly transformed their lives. The teaching is the same, but the examples were often horrid. With caution, I’d go as far as to call many of the clergy heretics before Martin Luther. Luther was correct on many problems. But he went way over the top and to far when he purposefully inserted “solo” to “solo fidel”. Scott Hahn pointed this out to me. Now I understand more of the big picture on how the reformation came about.

You see, today, non-Catholics lack the same excuse as many non-scholarly protestants. They approach the Bible not only as the word of God and the only base for their beliefs, but they approach the Bible with the intention of justifying their own misguided beliefs. That’s why we have so many different beliefs. The scriptures clearly point to Catholicism even if you isolated the faith to the scriptures. Now the clarity on particular issues would be fuzzy, but the basic precepts for the faith are more in line with Orthodox Catholicism than with any denomination (note that Catholicism is not a denomination because is equalized us with those that reject orthodox teachings and the truth is that there is only one church and that church is Christ’s Church, the Church of Christ [not the one’s that call themself that even thought the idea is correct]. This is God’s Church. Don’t let non-Catholics get away with hijacking the truth. That’s why they attack the Church so harshly.
 
homewardbound said:
I’m going to be confirmed this year and I have no idea how to tell my family. They won’t go to my confirmation, and I’ll be surprised if anyone but my parents go to my wedding when it happens. Me and my boyfriend plan to have a mass said at the ceremony, and my family would be upset. They’ll be upset anyway. Since I’ll be raising my children so wrong.😦

Sorry, I vented a bit.
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My uncle is a retired Baptist Preacher, 23 years ago when I was attending a Baptist College with the idea of becoming a misionary he disapproved of the school that I was attending, but still gave me his blessing. A couple years later I married my wife, who is a cradle Catholic. He didn’t acknowledge the wedding at first, but later gave me his blessing. Last year I came into full-communion in the Church, it only took 19 years of attending mass with my wife. I wrote my uncle a letter and gave him praise and thanks for his example in my life, his prayers and told him I gave him credit for my Love of Christ and he wrote back telling me how much he appreciated the letter that it meant alot and how much he loved me. Basically he prayed for me to get close to God and I did, he sees it as answered prayer. Will he become Catholic, I don’t know, but I think we both have a love affair with Jesus.

Prayer works wonders, where words just hurt.

Welcome Home.

Bennie P ><>
 
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