Cdl. Burke: Fr. James Martin Is ‘Not Coherent’ with Church Teaching on Homosexuality

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Burke, however, explicitly named Martin in the Jan. 11 interview. He was responding to the question about whether there is an attempt within Church circles to soften Catholic teachings about homosexuality as cited in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, changing the words “intrinsically disordered” to “differently ordered” as they apply to homosexual acts.

The Cardinal said that such a change is not possible.

“God did not make us to engage in sexual relations between two people of the same sex,” he said.
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Well, Fr. James Martin will be speaking at the LA Religious Ed Conference this year, so he must be orthodox.
 
Excellent article.

Thanks for posting this yankeesouth.

God bless.

Cathoholic
 
I have been reading Fr. James Martin’s books for over 10 years.
There is NOTHING in them that will lead anyone astray.
Fr. Martin’s books are not meant to be treatises on Doctrine and Dogma.
The man is a priest in good standing with his order and with the Church, unless and until that changes, he should be treated with the same respect here that Cardinal Burke is.
 
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I saw Martin speak at the local abbey for an hour and the entire message was pretty much just “be kind and welcoming to gay people because we want them to come to Mass and be part of the church.”

That was it. I must say I was expecting something much more dramatic from the way people make him into a towering villain here. He didn’t say anything that I haven’t already said myself over the last 30 years, multiple times.
 
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When did living the gospel become unorthadox?
 
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Cardinal Burke (or bishop A. Schneider for that matter) are not arbiters of what is and is not Catholic, though many see them as such.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
I saw Martin speak at the local abbey for an hour and the entire message was pretty much just “be kind and welcoming to gay people because we want them to come to Mass and be part of the church.”
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If that is all it was then I could see the problem. If these ‘gay’ people are not living chastely or don’t see their inclination as disordered then we actually don’t want them to come to Mass. It seems to me at best his message is incomplete. And that is a huge danger to all.
 
exnihilo said:
. If these ‘gay’ people are not living chastely or don’t see their inclination as disordered then we actually don’t want them to come to Mass.
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That’s incorrect. We do want them to come to Mass. We would like every sinner to come to Mass.
We just don’t want them to receive Holy Communion while in a state of mortal sin.

If you’re going to exclude sinners from Mass, then might as well just close all the churches because a huge segment of the parish does not belong in the pew.

The Church is a hospital for sinners, not an exclusive club that only the best behaved people are allowed to join.
 
exnihilo said:
If these ‘gay’ people are not living chastely or don’t see their inclination as disordered then we actually don’t want them to come to Mass.
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What? The Mass is open to every sinner, even me! Fling wide the doors, “come to me all you who are burdened and heavy laden and I will give you rest”.

Who told you that sinners can’t come to Mass?
 
“changing the words “intrinsically disordered” to “differently ordered” as they apply to homosexual acts.
The Cardinal said that such a change is not possible.
“God did not make us to engage in sexual relations between two people of the same sex,” he said.”

Fr. James Martin was actually specifically referring to the homosexual orientation, not acts. He parses his language very carefully. Regardless, he is on record as having suggested such a change to the Catechism. Cdl. Burke has rightly corrected him.
 
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The LA Religious conference is definitely something any Catholic should avoid.
 
From nubile dancing girls at the youth day Mass to dissident speakers…
At least they got Fr. Mike Schmitz this year to be the keynote speaker for the youth. I’ll give the programmers props for that. I hope that’s an indication of how popular he is with young Catholics
 
Tis_Bearself said:
We would like every sinner to come to Mass.
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TheLittleLady said:
The Mass is open to every sinner, even me!
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Yes, the Mass is definitely open to all sinners but receiving communion is not. To complete the message one would need to include, just as with every other sin, if homosexuals are engaging in homosexual relations they need to repent and confess and no longer live that lifestyle.

It would be just the same if he were talking to a man and a woman engaged in an adulterous lifestyle, yes, they are sinners, we want them at Mass but to complete the message, we would add, stop your adulterous lifestyle, repent and confess.
 
I don’t think any gay people are unaware of that fact. If we are going to take that approach, we need to also ensure everybody else committing sins gets the same message, not just gay people.

The message I get from Fr. Martin and other priests is that gay people are not an extra-special group of extra-bad sinners. Especially in a society where huge numbers of people calling themselves Catholic are committing sexual sins right and left, as well as other sins.

I don’t think most people who bother to call themselves Catholic are truly in the dark, in this day and age, that fornication, adultery, divorce and remarriage without annulment, artificial birth control, abortion, as well as same-sex relations are considered sins by the Catholic Church. I realize there is a difference of opinion on how much these matters should be preached about in homilies at Mass and whether the homily is really for reflecting on the day’s scripture, and not on moral teachings. However, I see LGBTQ as simply another issue in this large pile of sins and issues, not some kind of special be-all end-all issue that we should be extra worried about.
 
It is good to pray for him. He needs to get in line with Church teaching about homosexuality. He says he understands what those teachings are, but to my knowledge he has never stated that he agrees with those teachings. I believe, based on the aggregate of what he has said, that he is undermining those teachings. I pray that he stops.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
If we are going to take that approach, we need to also ensure everybody else committing sins gets the same message, not just gay people.
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Definitely, yes, in the homily and when a priest is out giving talks on the issue then he should be completing the message. If more of these other issues were addressed it wouldn’t be that hard to address active homosexuality.
 
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I don’t think so. Yes, everyone is a sinner. But the Mass isn’t the place for conversion. The Mass is primarily for worshipping God. The early church would have the uninitiated leave before the Eucharist. If someone thinks and promotes that homosexual acts are good then they need conversion before they come to Mass.
TheLittleLady said:
Who told you that sinners can’t come to Mass?
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The early Church. The uninitiated and order of penitents would be outside. Obviously I don’t think that every sinner should not attend Mass. But if someone promotes homosexual acts then his presence at Mass isn’t good for him or others.
 
I don’t see where any one in the Church is treating homosexual activity as an unforgivable sin. I do see dissident groups like New Ways Ministry, and individual Catholics, advocating to normalize homosexual activity and by extension, same sex “marriage” in the Church itself.
 
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