Y
YoungTradCath
Guest
I am so sorry. I thought only Episcopalian priests and bishops still did that.
- Status
E
EasterJoy
Guest
Let’s hope we pray for our bishops quite apart from how their vestments are situated. I am not saying this might not be symptomatic of other ills, or that it is nothing, but of all the things upon which a bishop will be judged, this is surely among the most cosmetic in importance, and therefore among the least in seriousness.
I would go so far to say that the Lord might evn have a word with us, if the state of vestments was the first thing that got us onto our knees on behalf of our shepherds.
A
arkwright
Guest
Over the last year I have seen the priest at the church I attend wear a chasuble only once , that was on Palm Sunday .
D
DCNBILL
Guest
I think the picture of the beer van toward the end of the gallery explains a lot of what is going on at this Mass. :sad_yes: btw the deacon is wearing a dalmatic and the adult server is merely wearing a cloth cincture.
M
Mrs_Sally
Guest
Amen! Let us pray for all our bishops to have deep faith and strength of character.Let’s hope we pray for our bishops quite apart from how their vestments are situated. I am not saying this might not be symptomatic of other ills, or that it is nothing, but of all the things upon which a bishop will be judged, this is surely among the most cosmetic in importance, and therefore among the least in seriousness.
I would go so far to say that the Lord might evn have a word with us, if the state of vestments was the first thing that got us onto our knees on behalf of our shepherds.
S
SKWill
Guest
You’re not confusing a tippet with a black stole, are you?
Y
YoungTradCath
Guest
No.
B
Br_Mark
Guest
There are several reasons why I do not wear a chasuble while celebrating the Eucharist / Mass. For example when I am at a parish as a supply priest, if that parish does not have a chasuble or the chasubles that they do have are not in good repair; I will not wear one, I do not have a set of chasubles of my own since I am a member of a religious order.
Secondly I wear what is know as a chasuble alb which covers my relgious habit and wear a stole on top. I am aware that there are many here that say there is no such thing as a chasuble alb, but alais there is; and in fact there are many a national conferences of bishops that have approved usage of the chasuble alb.
I am reminded of an episode of the Superman TV Show, where Jimmy Olsen finds Superman costume in Clark Kent’s apartment and puts it on thinking that the costume will give him super human powers but to his dismay it does not.
Mass is not magic, Mass is mystery…welcome to the mystic !
By the way for those of you who are members of the rubric patrol I do not wear either the amice or the maniple as well.
May we all find peace in Christ ! He is Risen ! He is Risen indeed !
Br Mark osb
Secondly I wear what is know as a chasuble alb which covers my relgious habit and wear a stole on top. I am aware that there are many here that say there is no such thing as a chasuble alb, but alais there is; and in fact there are many a national conferences of bishops that have approved usage of the chasuble alb.
I am reminded of an episode of the Superman TV Show, where Jimmy Olsen finds Superman costume in Clark Kent’s apartment and puts it on thinking that the costume will give him super human powers but to his dismay it does not.
Mass is not magic, Mass is mystery…welcome to the mystic !
By the way for those of you who are members of the rubric patrol I do not wear either the amice or the maniple as well.
May we all find peace in Christ ! He is Risen ! He is Risen indeed !
Br Mark osb
T
The_Curt_Jester
Guest
Where I work, the assistant priest does not wear a chasuble. However, I have heard that he has special dispensation from the diocese to do so due to health reasons.
E
EasterJoy
Guest
Some parishes also only have one size chasuble, and it is for a rather tall or a rather small priests. Priests of the opposite size might look rather ridiculous in an alb that is clearly not their size. If no clean chasuble of the correct size and in good repair is available, that is the same as “there is no chasuble available”.
M
Matthew_Holford
Guest
Why don’t you wear an amice? Please correct if I’m wrong but the rubrics do require one to be worn unless the alb covers the clothes under the alb which would show at the neck. I’m interested in this because while you seem to have a low opinion of what you term the “rubric patrol” you indicate that you are a Benedictine. It is my understanding that you will in your vows have promised obedience to the Church. How does a vow of obedience equate with making a personal choice that might be at variance with the Church’s own rubrics.
Now I accept that first of all you may wear an alb that meets the rubrical requirements. So, that would render the rest of my question redundant. Furthermore, I am not saying that you do not fulfil your vow of obedience.
What I am asking you is how you might disregard a rubric yet still be faithful to the obedience required by your vows?
My question may almost certainly be phrased better but I’m looking at where the limits to a religious’ obedience are.
S
superamazingman
Guest
Sorry to be frank, but the reason is:
They don’t know how to celebrate Mass well.
Plain and simple.
S
superamazingman
Guest
Well of course… there’s dispensations from pretty much anything for serious health reasons
S
Sherry_G
Guest
My l ast parish was quite large with approx 7,000 parishoners. When our parish priest died, we got a new priest who defied almost every tradition, strode about the parish mostly in his designer clothing, wanted to be called “bob”, not father Bob, etc. He saw nothing wrong with carrying anti catholic literatue in the church library, thinking we all deserve to hear all sides of the truth, etc. Happily, I moved away and am so happy in my new parish with a most reverent priest who meticulously follows the rubrics and celebrates Mass with such reverence my heart sings.
V
Veronica_Anne
Guest
I believe in one, holy, CATHOLIC, and apostolic Church.In all fairness, I think that cultural differences may be an issue here. Mrs Sally wouldn’t be wrong in saying that liturgical abuses may be rare in the places she has visited. Likewise, I have found that liturgical abuses are far fewer and less severe in other places (especially mission countries, mind) than in western countries. And certain dioceses seem more likely to toy with liturgical precepts than others. One can only speculate at the cause.
As for liturgical dance, I have seen liturgical dance being performed in Africa, but they are more restrained and less flamboyant than what’s happening in this album. I still disapprove, but I understand that dance manifests itself in their joy of celebration. Regardless, the solemnity of mass must never be usurped by a tendency towards over-exuberance. Perhaps they will understand in time. After mass and outside the church, perhaps, but not during.
This means “catholic.” The word “catholic” means “universal.”
Means transcendent across all cultures.
In that area of the world’s culture, dance is done for practicing the sacred liturgy. It’s not like they’re a bunch of teens in the movie Footloose!
In America, “dancing” at the sacred liturgy would mean something else, altogether.
We’re Catholic. All of us. Around the world.
Perhaps each and every one of us will understand this in time, too!
Pax vobiscum.
V
Veronica_Anne
Guest
Wow. That’s a pretty judgemental statement you just made there. The one about “loosey-goosey suburban parishes” being rife with liturgical abuses, anyhow.
I’m in the suburbs. Always have been. I wonder what it is about the “suburbs” being more rife (according to you) with this practice?
My priest wears that long, white alb (I guess that’s what it’s called – “alb”) down to the floor completely over his regular clothing.
Over that, he wears a fancy stole around his neck. Or, sometimes a simpler stole. In any case, the stole he wears is very wide and NOT at all to be missed. Especially because its colors are such a contrast to the complete white of his floor-length white alb.
Sometimes at a particular parish, the priest who’s there does it the same way as my own priest.
Other parishes I’ve belonged to, the priest wears ALL of the vestments.
All of these priests – no matter whether they’re wearing the chasuble (too) or not – are just as in touch and consistent with the rubrics for celebrating a holy, solemn, and joyful Mass.
I’d be loathe to make a judgement on the validity of their priesthood if they did not wear a chasuble at Mass.
The priest we currently have had at my parish for the last 7 years is a really great homilist! Most weeks, during his homily he’ll give us homework to do for the upcoming week. That homework does NOTHING BUT help us to be better Christians.
The way my priest conducts himself at the altar is solemn, slow, measured walking. He pauses for a VERY long time when he lifts the consecrated Host and Chalice. VERY long. Looking directly at it with no loss of attention to what (well, Who) he’s holding way high up in front of us all.
After he gives his homily, he walks slowly back behind the altar (where his chair is located) and sits there for at least 4 minutes so that we can all have a chance to let the Gospel and his homily sink in. Often, the homework he gives requires us to decide HOW and WHERE we are going to do that week’s homework. So, this gives us a chance to “catch up” mentally with what we’d just heard him say in his homily. Truly, a blessing that he recognizes the need for a bit of silence DURING the Mass. That silence actually IS specified in the rubrics (I think).
And so, the last thing I’d want to do is consider his viability as a priest to be dependent on whether he chose to wear a chasuble.
For all I know, our bishop has dispensed all priests in our diocese from HAVING to wear a chasuble if they chose not to do so.
The only garment required for a valid Sacrament to be conferred – Baptism, Reconciliation, Sacrament of the Sick, Confirmation, Matrimony, Holy Orders, Eucharist – is the stole. Period.
S
superamazingman
Guest
Well, it’s true.Wow. That’s a pretty judgemental statement you just made there. The one about “loosey-goosey suburban parishes” being rife with liturgical abuses, anyhow.
Are you just making this up? Or is this a joke?!?!
The rubrics specify that a chusable must be worn. If they don’t follow the rubrics, they aren’t following the rubrics (or, as you put it, “in touch” with the rubrics).
Indeed, it is.
That wouldn’t happen. It just wouldn’t
Again, are you just making this up? If you’re speaking of “Required” as in “required for validity,” no garment, stole or otherwise, is required. But if you’re speaking of “required” as in “what the rubrics require,” that’s simply false!! More than a stole is needed.
Seriously, Veronica, are you just making this up?!?
Y
YoungTradCath
Guest
I would like to point out that no garment is require for the valid confection of a sacrament, none at all. But that isn’t the point. The point is that the Church has for thousands of years required that priests wear a chasuble during the celebration of the Mass, and still does.
T
The_Curt_Jester
Guest
Where I work (and where the one priest has a medical dispensation), the pastor has told me that in ordinary cases, the priest is required to wear a chasuble. The assistant is using a special exception, not exercising his freedom to choose as he likes.
B
Br_Mark
Guest
As I stated before I wear a chasuble alb which covers my habit when I celebrate the Eucharist, and hence I do not need to wear a amice. I can not speak for other priest, but I have noticed that the usage of the amice is rare, with the exception of those priests that are members of EF communities.
As to my vow of obedience, it is not obedience created in a vaccume. My vow of obedience is foremost to Christ, and then to the Abbot of the community in conjuction with relationship to the community as a whole. Obedience is born through this relationship and is tested / discerned in community within the community as a whole. Obedience is not blind for each member is called and is given gifts from God to building up the body of Christ; so from the most senior member to the youngest novice their voices must be hear so that truth may be known and manifested so that obedience may be lived out.
Hope this answers your question.
May the Love of Christ fill your life,
Br Mark osb
As to my vow of obedience, it is not obedience created in a vaccume. My vow of obedience is foremost to Christ, and then to the Abbot of the community in conjuction with relationship to the community as a whole. Obedience is born through this relationship and is tested / discerned in community within the community as a whole. Obedience is not blind for each member is called and is given gifts from God to building up the body of Christ; so from the most senior member to the youngest novice their voices must be hear so that truth may be known and manifested so that obedience may be lived out.
Hope this answers your question.
May the Love of Christ fill your life,
Br Mark osb
- Status