Celebrate Recovery

[CopticChristian]

I believe that Celebrate Recovery is such a good program that our group would be willing to help any Catholic Parish or group in our area set one up. I have generated tons of graphics, extended slides for the teachings, etc… I would be willing to co-ordinate with a priest or lay person from the Catholic faith who wanted to set on up in our area, even right across the street from our church. (on a different night of course)

We would be willing to help with leader training and would even discuss any problems with the program that conflict with Catholic beliefs. I know there are several Catholic groups with CR already, so it is do-able.

I will have to check out those Catholic CR groups that were linked to.



Kirk

Protestantism is Heresy. Heresy is evil. So do we conform ourselves to the world and sin in heresy, by no means.

**
1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?**

Because we are in Christ and avail ourselves to his graces through Baptism, the Eucharist and all manner of avenues through the Church are we free from the foibles and temptations of sin, for to drink and to drug is to sin…it is like slowly killing ourselves and to do that is forbidden by the Commandments to love ourselves as we love our neighbor…to kill ourselves is not love…

**
14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.**

Do we believe that engaging in any activity will free us from the pain and suffering I don’t think so…

**7And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 8For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. **

In the end, no Protestant group can relieve you of anything and if there is anything to be gained it is by not joining something that leads to evil and maintaining whatever we have in the bosom of the Church even if it means adopting and incorporating what is believed to be good outside the Church into the Church for then there is no temptation, no possibility of falling into heretical thinking. This would be as great or greater evil than to be a drunk…neither achieve the end goal.

If you have the love of God, then you lack for nothing and you hope for it is by hope we were saved…

**23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. 24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? 25But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. **

And we all suffer, some more than others, I do not wish affliction on anyone…however that is our plight in this world.

**35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. **

There is no disease. There is no addiction and recovery. There is sin and salvation. There is the love of God, the grace of God, and this is sufficient. Read Jesus Christ the Bearer of the Water of life to confirm what I say…

 

[Faith1960]

This would be the least of the evils. Can we do evil that good may come. To become Protestant to become addicted to Protestant thought to relieve our suffering even if it produces good is not consistent with the good that comes.

How, IYO, would we become Protestant by going to CB meetings held at a Catholic parish?

 

[Faith1960]

There is no disease. There is no addiction and recovery. There is sin and salvation. There is the love of God, the grace of God, and this is sufficient. Read Jesus Christ the Bearer of the Water of life to confirm what I say…

Mental illnesses are diseases.

 

[AmateurPianist]

Jesus in Mark 2:17 directly compares sin to sickness.

It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.

While it is not exactly true to say that sin “is” a disease, it is true to say that it “is like” a disease because our Lord has directly made this comparison before.

 

[Sufjon]

There is no disease. There is no addiction and recovery. There is sin and salvation. There is the love of God, the grace of God, and this is sufficient.

Didn’t you tell me on another thread once that you were an Medical Doctor?

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Sufjon]

Protestantism is Heresy. Heresy is evil.

I don’t know if heretics are evil, but I know for certain that throughout history throwing that term around has caused a good deal of ungodly suffering, which I can say for certain is evil.

Your friend
Sufjon
The Heretic

 

[CopticChristian]

How, IYO, would we become Protestant by going to CB meetings held at a Catholic parish?

Did you not read what I wrote. The only way I would suggest anyone go to any meeting would be to go to it if it was sponsored and held at the Catholic Church.

Originally Posted by kirkdickinson
I believe that Celebrate Recovery is such a good program that our group would be willing to help any Catholic Parish or group in our area set one up.

This would be good to alleviate the evil of leaving the bosom of the Church. It would create a situation where you would not see “I used to be Catholic” in Protestant bodies. You cannot do evil to produce good.

 

[CopticChristian]

Mental illnesses are diseases.

I am not disputing your mental illness. You have pointed out that you are not addicted and that is not your problem to contend with. The focus as been on addiction, CR, 12 steps and for some reason you find solace in these programs…I have no beef with your problem as you have presented it. Depression is real, Anxiety is real…yes I agree.

 

[CopticChristian]

Jesus in Mark 2:17 directly compares sin to sickness.

While it is not exactly true to say that sin “is” a disease, it is true to say that it “is like” a disease because our Lord has directly made this comparison before.

In the context of 12 steps, AA, Celebrate Recovery…all have to do with the false notion that alcoholism is a disease…

If you fornicate you sin
If you are an adulterer you sin
If you steal you sin
If you extort you sin
If you covet you sin
If you are a reviler (abuse) you sin

and you do not inherit the kingdom of God

Oh I forgot Paul also said drunkards…

9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God

.

Did we have to wait for 2000 years for someone to tell us something different about drunks and addicts…it is a choice…it is a sin…Paul had it right.

 

[CopticChristian]

Didn’t you tell me on another thread once that you were an Medical Doctor?

Your friend
Sufjon

It is you that has said it and why do you call me thus…

 

[CopticChristian]

I don’t know if heretics are evil, but I know for certain that throughout history throwing that term around has caused a good deal of ungodly suffering, which I can say for certain is evil.

Your friend
Sufjon
The Heretic

Paul was accused of heresy for preaching Christianity by the Jews…They thought he was evil and were willing to murder him…

13Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. 14But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Peter warns that heresies are damnable…

1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/protesy.htm

The Protestant Heresy

By Hilaire Belloc
What Was the Reformation?

The movement generally called “The Reformation” deserves a place apart in the story of the great heresies; and that for the following reasons:

1. It was not a particular movement but a general one,

Heresy is evil…

 

[JMShermanEsq]

Faith1960:

I’ve been following this thread for about a month and I can’t help but notice that several people are bent on fixing you. You have asked some very important questions about Celebrate Recovery but the answers you receive are 1) non-responsive to your question (you’re getting advice about AA and other 12 Step groups); 2) ignorant of your plight (your illness is dismissed as sin); and, 3) ignorant of Celebrate Recovery (as in, it must be evil because it is not catholic).

Here’s my experience (not something I read or assume): I’ve been going to Celebrate Recovery for about 5 years. I know several practicing Catholics who attend. They love it and they keep coming back because they are getting better.

I also know that the 3rd Guideline in Celebrate Recovery is: “We are here to support one another; not “fix” one another.” So, based on my personal experience, I suggest that you attend Celebrate Recovery to get help for your anxiety/depression disorder. If anyone tries to convert you, simply inform them they are breaking the guidelines and you do not want to “fixed.” If that doesn’t solve the problem, ask to speak with the Ministry Leader and tell him or her the same thing.

 

[CopticChristian]

Faith1960:

I’ve been following this thread for about a month and I can’t help but notice that several people are bent on fixing you. You have asked some very important questions about Celebrate Recovery but the answers you receive are 1) non-responsive to your question (you’re getting advice about AA and other 12 Step groups); 2) ignorant of your plight (your illness is dismissed as sin); and, 3) ignorant of Celebrate Recovery (as in, it must be evil because it is not catholic).

Here’s my experience (not something I read or assume): I’ve been going to Celebrate Recovery for about 5 years. I know several practicing Catholics who attend. They love it and they keep coming back because they are getting better.

I also know that the 3rd Guideline in Celebrate Recovery is: “We are here to support one another; not “fix” one another.” So, based on my personal experience, I suggest that you attend Celebrate Recovery to get help for your anxiety/depression disorder. If anyone tries to convert you, simply inform them they are breaking the guidelines and you do not want to “fixed.” If that doesn’t solve the problem, ask to speak with the Ministry Leader and tell him or her the same thing.

Or you could go to your local Catholic Church and avoid talking to any Protestants for any guidance. No one dismisses Anxiety and Depression as sin…where did you get that idea. Show me where any ignoramus dismissed Anxiety or Depression as sin please.

Experience is always important however experience is not necessarily the source of all knowledge and information. There are as you know two competing forms of thought. Those that believe all knowledge comes through experience and those that don’t or rather empiricism and rationalism.

I started thinking about this and it came to my mind that just because you have experienced something does not qualify anyone to be an expert. This is the common tenet in these self help groups perpetuated by the notion that only an “alcoholic” can help another “alcoholic”. Take that thinking in the following direction.

You wake up one morning and find you have cancer of the genitals. Do you have to find someone with cancer of the genitals to help you? Of course not. Someone that has studied the natural history of disease can help you even if they have never experienced the problem.

This is true for all real diseases. You do not need to have a Schizophrenic Psychiatrist to help a Schizophrenic, or a Diabetic Physician to help manage diabetes. The whole notion that Alcholism is a disease decries the reality that you dont have to be one to help one.

 

[CopticChristian]

I’ve been attending Celebrate Recovery for about 5 years. You do not have to be a member of the host church to attend. In fact, even non-christians are welcome so long as their discussion about the Triune God is not offensive (such as using the name of God or Jesus as a cuss word).

The people at Celebrate Recovery first meet as a large group (men and women and all areas of recovery). Then they break off into small groups segregated by gender and by area of recovery. In the large group, they will teach a lesson every other week that will include some Protestant doctrine. However, there is no teaching in the small group and the guidelines prohibit anyone from trying to “fix” you. It is just a safe place for you to talk about what is going on in your life. You could just attend the small group if you are uncomfortable in the large group.

I love Celebrate Recovery and I hope you give it a try.

I can understand that you love what you attend. I believe that for a practicing Catholic this would be a near occasion of sin.

Here is a thought. The proponents of addiction and the entire paradigm that claim alcohol ingestion, drug ingestion and all the other things that are a disease claim that this disease is a “spiritual disease”…now let’s talke a look at that. The Medical field, physicians that promote this paradigm are brainwashing people to believe that they are diseased. Once you accept that, then you are told that it is a spiritual disease, then you are guided through the process by “addictionologists” physicians treating a “spiritual disease”…is this making any sense…

Next time you see your family physician…how ya feeling…eating OK, bowels moving, what about sleep…lets get your blood pressure, temperature, weight, height…and lets get out that Spiritual barometer and see if your spiritually illl…ya know heard that the Spiritual disease just had an outbreak in Thailand last week…here we go…OK then…

 

[Sufjon]

Paul was accused of heresy for preaching Christianity by the Jews…They thought he was evil and were willing to murder him…

Peter warns that heresies are damnable…

catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/protesy.htm

The Protestant Heresy

By Hilaire Belloc
What Was the Reformation?

The movement generally called “The Reformation” deserves a place apart in the story of the great heresies; and that for the following reasons:

1. It was not a particular movement but a general one,

Heresy is evil…

By their works you shall know them. People and church authorities who have labelled other people heretics have tortured, maimed and killed the people they accused, and by any civilized, religious, moral or logical standard this is evil. That is self evident. Therefore, the first people one should suspect of heresy is anyone who uses that term to label someone else. Firstly it means they really have no other argument or self evident truth to offer rather than to resort to labeling the other person. It’s an act of desperation. Secondly, the atrocities committed by people using this term throughout history reveals the true nature of their beliefs, because no true understanding of God would lead anyone to torture or to kill or to maim. I also think that people tend to accuse other people of the very things they themselves are guilty of.

As the world advances in technology, education and communications, any church that wants to survive another hundred years had best get that word out of their vocabulary and start preaching something of value.

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[PRmerger]

By their works you shall know them. People and church authorities who have labelled other people heretics have tortured, maimed and killed the people they accused, and by any civilized, religious, moral or logical standard this is evil. That is self evident.

You are absolutely right here, Sufjon.

Therefore, the first people one should suspect of heresy is anyone who uses that term to label someone else.

Heh. This is a bit ironic, no? And convoluted.

So when you call someone here a heretic for labeling another person a heretic, should we suspect you of being a heretic?

Actually, just to provide some education for those seeking to understand Catholicism, you cannot be labeled a heretic, Sufjon, as you are not Catholic.

If one is a well-catechized Catholic who does not believe a Catholic truth he once accepted, one is embracing heresy.

HOWEVER, it would not be correct to label this Catholic a heretic.

The Catechism states that most people who have embraced heresies do not qualify for the term 'heretic". A heretic is a person who has been taught and embraced the Truth, then willfully and obdurately rejects that Truth.

 

[AmateurPianist]

Protestantism is Heresy. Heresy is evil.

Well let’s see what Cardinal Ratzinger (your pope) has to say.

The difficulty in the way of giving an answer is a profound one. Ultimately it is due to the fact that there is no appropriate category in Catholic thought for the phenomenon of Protestantism today (one could say the same of the relationship to the separated churches of the East). It is obvious that the old category of ‘heresy’ is no longer of any value. Heresy, for Scripture and the early Church, includes the idea of a personal decision against the unity of the Church, and heresy’s characteristic is pertinacia, the obstinacy of him who persists in his own private way. This, however, cannot be regarded as an appropriate description of the spiritual situation of the Protestant Christian. In the course of a now centuries-old history, Protestantism has made an important contribution to the realization of Christian faith, fulfilling a positive function in the development of the Christian message and, above all, often giving rise to a sincere and profound faith in the individual non-Catholic Christian, whose separation from the Catholic affirmation has nothing to do with the pertinacia characteristic of heresy. Perhaps we may here invert a saying of St. Augustine’s: that an old schism becomes a heresy. The very passage of time alters the character of a division, so that an old division is something essentially different from a new one. Something that was once rightly condemned as heresy cannot later simply become true, but it can gradually develop its own positive ecclesial nature, with which the individual is presented as his church and in which he lives as a believer, not as a heretic. This organization of one group, however, ultimately has an effect on the whole. The conclusion is inescapable, then: Protestantism today is something different from heresy in the traditional sense, a phenomenon whose true theological place has not yet been determined.”

I think I will believe your pope and not you.

 

[CopticChristian]

Well let’s see what Cardinal Ratzinger (your pope) has to say.

I think I will believe your pope and not you.

Protestansim at its inception is a heresy. Protestants of today did not separate however to embrace something that a believer knowingly and willingly is aware is at odds with the truth approaches that from which it sprang. For a true believer to leave the bosom of the Church knowingly and willingly to enter Protestantism at any level reverts to that from which the term came.

I am not suggesting that Protestants are heretics…Protestanism at it’s inception was heresy. I am glad that you finally agree with the Pope. The Pope is the leader of all Christians that have been baptized in the trinitarian formula.

The posting has to do with going to a Protestant function and you digress.

 

[Sufjon]

.

You are absolutely right here, Sufjon.

Heh. This is a bit ironic, no? And convoluted.

So when you call someone here a heretic for labeling another person a heretic, should we suspect you of being a heretic?

Actually, just to provide some education for those seeking to understand Catholicism, you cannot be labeled a heretic, Sufjon, as you are not Catholic.

If one is a well-catechized Catholic who does not believe a Catholic truth he once accepted, one is embracing heresy.

HOWEVER, it would not be correct to label this Catholic a heretic.

The Catechism states that most people who have embraced heresies do not qualify for the term 'heretic". A heretic is a person who has been taught and embraced the Truth, then willfully and obdurately rejects that Truth.

Hi PRMerger. This is all very interesting. Thanks.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[CopticChristian]

.

Hi PRMerger. This is all very interesting. Thanks.

Your friend
Sufjon

And as PR is explaining Luther, Calvin, Knox, Zwingli would qualify as heretics.