Celibacy and the Catholic Priest

[rr1213]

RR-

When I was much younger and a new convert to the Catholic Church, I considered the priesthood myself. But not for long.

No, I wanted to be a monk. And not just any type of monk…I wanted to be a Trappist, a member of the Order of Cistericians of the Strict Observance (OCSO). When you think “monastery” these are the guys you’re thinking of…silence, living alone in their cells, etc.

I was a candidate for five years while I was in college. I visited the houses at St. Joseph’s Abbey in Spencer, MA, Conyers, GA and Snowmass, MA as part of my discernment process.

After college I got a job and worked for awhile, but the call was strong, so I quit my job and went to test my vocation. I was there for about six weeks when the novice master said, “we don’t feel you have a vocation.” Maybe I spent too much time shooting baskets on the make-shift court by the barn. What do you expect from a boy from North Carolina - the heart of ACC country?

Anyway, I left the abbey and went immediately to Maryland where I got a job and joined a Church and met my future wife. However, if I had not been at the Monastery, I never would have made the connection with the Maryland group because one of the monks had a brother who worked for the Maryland company that hired me. You see, God had a plan for my life, and I learned an awful lot (and stayed out of some trouble) while considering my vocation carefully. The road to my wife took me through the cloister.

Was I bitter? Of course not. I did not have a RIGHT to be a monk. The monastery had the obligation to help me discern if my inclination was truly from God. It was not…or at least maybe only for a time, but not for life. I benefitted from the time I spent at the Abbey, and my experience is memorable to this day.

Protestantism does not understand vocation. Being a priest is not just another job. God calls some and not all whom He calls accept. I will conclude with the verse with which I began this thread:

Matthew 19:11-12
11Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

Forget the Church for just a moment…what is Jesus saying here?

Now THAT’S not a story you hear everyday! I’d be interested sometime in learning more about your experiences with the Trappists. Aren’t they the ones who brew some pretty good beer or have I mixed up my monastic orders. I am a graduate of the University of Maryland, so I appreciate both good basketball and good beer!

What was Jesus saying in your quotation? He was saying that some people are made for a celibate lifestyle and that, while this is a difficult thing to understand, it is the truth. We know that he was speaking about himself, of Paul, of many other leaders in the Church, men and women, lay and clergy. I understand that some people are literally called by God to be celibate. This is absolutely clear from Scripture. Still, it is important to see what Jesus did not say in your quotation. He did not say that you can’t be a priest if you are married…which for all practical purposes is what the Church says with respect to its Latin Rite.

 

[Mannyfit75]

As a married man, I’d advise that you be quite certain of what you are giving up prior to making that choice but, fundamentally, it is your choice and I have no problem with it. Indeed, I admire you for doing so. However, I have to say that I do believe that it should be your choice and not a mandate by the Church. The Church should examine your morals, intellect and capablilities for being a priest and discern whether you have correctly discerned God’s call to that vocation–and make a decision based on those sorts of factors, not preclude you just because you may be married (I know that you are not in fact married).

It is my choice and God ultimately my final vacation. It is God’s calling, and it priesthood is not a career or a job. I went to one discernment for the priesthood, and time and time again, many of the priest had a calling from God. They came to do His Will, not their will.

There is a universal title that applies to all priests and bishops. “We are the servants of the servants of God.” The Pope honors this title very much and it is his highest title. Like the Pope, priests are there to serve the servants of God, the sheep of his flock.

 

[rr1213]

When you meet with priests to discuss your discernment of your vocation and whether you are being called to be a priest, what sort of stance do the priests take?

I’ll tell you something that I personally witnessed that bothered me. Someone I know, a 16 year old girl, had gone out on a date with a particular 16 year old boy. When this was mentioned, in passing, to the boy’s priest he responded by saying “well, I’m going to have to speak to ‘Joe’ about that…he’s supposed to be a priest.” The priest was smiling at the time, but I’m not totally convinced he was joking. I do not think that it would be proper to say to “Joe”–a 16 year old boy–that he should not see girls because he might become a priest…indeed, within the bounds of celibacy and being chaste, I think that Joe should see girls his age so that he can be certain, when the time comes, that he is not called to marriage. It seemed to me that the priest was trying to “stack the deck”.

 

[Mannyfit75]

When you meet with priests to discuss your discernment of your vocation and whether you are being called to be a priest, what sort of stance do the priests take?

For men discerning the priesthood, they say, prayers, and mediation is needed, as well as Scripture reading. I also need to take Pre-Theology before I go to the Seminary since I have no degree.

I’ll tell you something that I personally witnessed that bothered me. Someone I know, a 16 year old girl, had gone out on a date with a particular 16 year old boy. When this was mentioned, in passing, to the boy’s priest he responded by saying “well, I’m going to have to speak to ‘Joe’ about that…he’s supposed to be a priest.” The priest was smiling at the time, but I’m not totally convinced he was joking. I do not think that it would be proper to say to “Joe”–a 16 year old boy–that he should not see girls because he might become a priest…indeed, within the bounds of celibacy and being chaste, I think that Joe should see girls his age so that he can be certain, when the time comes, that he is not called to marriage. It seemed to me that the priest was trying to “stack the deck”.

Seeking the priesthood is an inner calling, it goes much deeper than what Joe had experience. Like I said before and may priests and men discerning the priesthood will tell you this. Priesthood is not a career. It is a calling from God to men. I read the account of Fr. Corapi call to the priesthood, and others, and many of their stories of being called to serve the Bible are identical to my own.

I have been discerning priesthood for over a year now. Many people claim, this would die down. It hasn’t the call from God is yearning deep in my soul. I could not ignore to accept his calling. Since I am in the Latin Rite, I know once I became a priesthood, I must be celibate. This isn’t contrary to what the Bible said.

Like the other Catholic Apologists here who discuss this issue state this;

“Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” - Matthew 19:11-12

If God does call me into the priesthood and I renounced marriage it is because of the kingdom of heaven. Not for my own sake by the sake of others, whom I seek to spread the Gospel.

 

[jmcrae]

Again, let me ask the question in a slightly different form: under the current practices of the Latin Rite, if I am a married Latin Rite cradle Catholic do I have any chance whatsoever of being ordained as a priest while I remain married? Yes or no. If yes, please explain and provide examples where this has happened. Otherwise we’re talking a prohibition here folks…

Yes, there is a chance - it’s small, but it’s there.

1. You have been studying theology all your life.
2. You volunteer at the Church every moment that you are not actually with your family or at work, or sleeping - your “spare time hobby” is your volunteer work at the Church. (Your house is paid for, and you have no debts.)
3. Suddenly, there is a shortage of priests in your Diocese.
4. Your priest recommends you for Seminary training, with a view to the priesthood.
5. Your Bishop interviews you and finds that, apart from being married, you would be a good candidate for the priesthood. (Your children are grown, and your wife is past child-bearing age.)
6. He interviews your wife, and she is excited about the idea.
7. You make it through Seminary with top grades. You pass all the psychological evaluations. Everyone at your home parish likes you, and thinks you would be a wonderful priest.

Yes, such a person could be ordained to the priesthood.

As you point out, it’s not all that likely - but yes, it is possible.

As others have pointed out, very few people are gifted with two Sacramental Vocations, and even fewer who have the ability to be married to someone who has two Sacramental Vocations - this has to be taken into consideration, as well, since a priest is not an ordinary man - he spends many hours a day in prayer and contemplation, which doesn’t leave a lot of time for snuggling up in front of the TV, or engaging in useful, communicative conversation.

 

[Randy_Carson]

And no less of a change is made on Eastern Orthodox married men who become priests, or Eastern Rite Catholic married men who become priests, or Latin Rite married converted clergymen who become priests. Yet, the Church decides that in almost all cases no Catholic married men will become priests in the Latin Rite. This decision is not based on any matter peculiar to the integrity, morals, intellect or capabilities of the person at issue but, instead, is a prohibition imposed against an entire class of persons based purely on their marital status…a prohibition which the Church itself admits is not mandated by doctrine.

Let’s take a different approach…why does the Orthodox Church require that its Bishops be unmarried celibate men?

 

[Randy_Carson]

When you meet with priests to discuss your discernment of your vocation and whether you are being called to be a priest, what sort of stance do the priests take?

I’ll tell you something that I personally witnessed that bothered me. Someone I know, a 16 year old girl, had gone out on a date with a particular 16 year old boy. When this was mentioned, in passing, to the boy’s priest he responded by saying “well, I’m going to have to speak to ‘Joe’ about that…he’s supposed to be a priest.” The priest was smiling at the time, but I’m not totally convinced he was joking. I do not think that it would be proper to say to “Joe”–a 16 year old boy–that he should not see girls because he might become a priest…indeed, within the bounds of celibacy and being chaste, I think that Joe should see girls his age so that he can be certain, when the time comes, that he is not called to marriage. It seemed to me that the priest was trying to “stack the deck”.

You are correct…which is why I continued dating even though I was considering entering the monastery.

St. Joseph’s Abbey, btw, produces Trappist Preserves as well as vestments. Our Lady of Gethsemane in KY has a bakery. Conyers has large greenhouses and produces flowers and other nursery plants. I don’t know all the others.

One more, BTW, you would have been on campus around the same time my wife was there…she graduated in '82 or '83.

Fear the turtle!

 

[rr1213]

Let’s take a different approach…why does the Orthodox Church require that its Bishops be unmarried celibate men?

Don’t know. Could speculate, but it wouldn’t be prudent.

 

[rr1213]

One more, BTW, you would have been on campus around the same time my wife was there…she graduated in '82 or '83.

Fear the turtle!

GO TERPS!

If you wish, PM me with her name and major, maybe I knew her, although College Park, especially back then, was quite a large campus.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Don’t know. Could speculate, but it wouldn’t be prudent.

Well, we can agree that it is not based upon the Bible, right?

 

[Greg27]

Let’s take a different approach…why does the Orthodox Church require that its Bishops be unmarried celibate men?

In my understanding it is because in Orthodoxy Bishops usually come from monastic orders, where celibacy is a lifelong requirement. Fr Ambrose might have something to say on this in the Eastern Christian forum.

 

[rr1213]

Well, we can agree that it is not based upon the Bible, right?

It would seem to be inconsistent therewith since the Scriptures speak explicitly about married bishops (or overseers).

 

[Randy_Carson]

It would seem to be inconsistent therewith since the Scriptures speak explicitly about married bishops (or overseers).

Aha.

Does the Bible REQUIRE a man to be married in order to be a Bishop?

If a man WANTS to remain unmarried in order to devote himself more fully to the service of God, is this permissable?

 

[rr1213]

Aha.

Does the Bible REQUIRE a man to be married in order to be a Bishop?

Of course not. Indeed, some of Paul’s writting would suggest that it might be better if he were not married.

If a man WANTS to remain unmarried in order to devote himself more fully to the service of God, is this permissable?

Not only permissible, but preferrable according to Paul.

The difference is that this is a choice not allowed by the Church to Latin Rite candidates for the priesthood. Instead, the Church operates under a “take it or leave it” approach. If you want to be a priest, you must refrain from marriage. THAT is what is unscriptural about it. It is the difference between a PRESUMPTION that the priesthood should generally be unmarried and a REQUIREMENT that the priesthood be unmarried.

Moreover, it is no less of a REQUIREMENT just because there are exceptions in the Eastern Rite and among some clergy converts from Protestantism (or, even more rarely, in the circumstances described by Jmcrae above).