Celibacy as a requirement

[Trelow]

Those aren’t facts.

Research and study the history of Christianity. Examine the claims of the various sects. Scrutinize their development and theology. Read the documents of the earliest believers. Immerse yourself in the Old and New Testament, and reconcile them with one another. Finally, study the claims made by the Church.

But my wager is that you don’t have the stomach for it, you won’t like what you find. I know. I’ve been there.

 

[VociMike]

all i know is that the bible doesnt list it as a requirement, it is just a church trying to establish a pecking order and a hierarchy where God did not intend for one.

So now you can read the minds of all those who have decided upon this requirement for Latin Rite priests, and you find nothing but petty power plays? Is that really a charitable view to take of those generations who have gone before?

You say “where God did not intend for one”. I suppose He didn’t intend for the “pecking order and hierarchy” of the Jewish priesthood either, eh?

 

[VociMike]

Let me explain myself a little more. I am objecting simply because it is not right to put that requirement on someone.

The Church has 2000 years of experience to go by, covering the experience of millions of priests. You have a feeling.

I personally dont think i will be marrying, and i serve God in many ways. But i dont see a problem with married people serving the lord and it doesnt seem to be a hassle that much. It isnt accomplishing anything so i dont see why it is around. I dont think we need sex, it helps to be single, but i know many, many people who serve the lord as great warriors and leaders that are married. In fact the most prominent, Godly man i know is married.

It’s not a question of whether married men can be Godly. It’s a question of whether married men can serve the role of priest as well as unmarried men.

Interestingly, even those Rites that allow married priests (and the Eastern Orthodox as well) do not allow priests to marry, and they don’t allow married men to become bishops. Do you think this is just because the entire Church is against marriage?

 

[FCEGM]

and no, i am no catholic, in fact many from my area are against me because i have brought biblical truth against there beliefs. My email is krazybiker3@hotmail.com, email me or add me on messenger or pm me if you want to talk more indepth, maybe later i will bring up a big issue.

Before you bring up “a big issue”, specops, it would help you to have a better understanding of Catholicism and not the ignorant cartoon image you have obviously embraced, a sort of spiritual pornography that some find appealing. If you are serious about engaging Catholics on this forum, that it would serve you well to have some adequate knowledge of what the Church actually is and teaches. I suggest you read through some of the excellent articles available at the Catholic Answers Library linked above. These articles in particular would be a good place for you to start:

catholic.com/thisrock/1994/9409fea4.asp

catholic.com/thisrock/1994/9410fea2.asp

catholic.com/library/sr_chick_tracts_p5.asp

catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9911chap.asp

God bless you with holy wisdom!

 

[clmowry]

Well I don’t know about “countless”. Sexual misbehavior, of any type, I just gets alot of press when a Catholic religious is involved

I’d also submit this has nothing to do with a celibate priesthood.

I’m 100% confident that the incidence of sexual misconduct is much greater outside than inside the priesthood.

That said, a celibate Priesthood is a discipline of the Western Chruch that could be changed.

If I recall correctly, theologically, we could have married priests but not married Bishops. (I’m sure someone will jump all over that last part if I’ve got it wrong.)

Chuck

yes, i believe it is better to be single and more wholly devoted, but examine the scripture. “If they cannot exercise selfcontrol, then marry.” Countless bishops and priests have been caught with mistresses, and some have even been found in the abomination of homosexual intercouse! how dare they say it makes them more holy, it would be better for them to be married and not commit this horrible sin than to attempt to be more focused on god, which they obviously fail.

I am not attacking all priests and bishops, just the ones that have been found to commit fornication and homosexuality. Those who can control themselves can truely focus and should keep it that way.By the way, he also says “I say this for your own benefit, not to lay any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and to secure your undivided devotion to the Lord”. He did not want to restrain people by creating laws, and this is clearly a restraint.

Please offer me a more fitting example, or a contradiction of these truths.

 

[clmowry]

Ya might want to start getting your facts from different sources.

What would lead you to believe that a “common man” would have the money to get a hand written copy of the bible made or the time and resources to do it himself?

Your view of the Church and Her History is terribly distorted. You might want to do a little research using Catholic sources

At least then you can chose to hate the Catholic Chruch for what She is instead of hating the fictional institution someone has taught you to hate.

Chuck

well im sorry im bad with dates, but the fact remains that Constantine and his pagan merge to create Roman Catholicism was after the bible was being used by believers. And do you not realize that anyone could see the word for it and copy it? just because a church today has the name of one in the bible doesnt make it about it, they could just copy the name.

also i am not anti-catholics. Roman Catholicism(and im pretty sure im spelling that wrong) is wrong, but i have friends that are and i enjoy those people very much. I just want to show them the truth behind its evils. Many of them are good people, some are saved. I have NOTHING against the people themselves, i only wish they would open their eyes. Do you not know of the queen of heaven? how she ruled in babel before in Rome? We speak of the holy virginity of the church, but she is the mother of harlots, the filthiest whore in the world. This church commited fornication and unholy alliances with kings throughout history, and mary makes no sense unless she is truly the descendant of the ancient religion of babel. I wish for you to see truth, and i love you always. Research this at least, look into the ties, meditate upon what your church has done. Come to Gods love.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Just because people fail doesn’t mean we lower the standard. We must always give God our best.

There are some who are not fit for celibacy and some who fail to live up to the call. We have no way of knowing beforehand of all who will fail, yet again just because some fail doesn’t make Jesus wrong in recommending it.
Since Jesus recommended it we follow it.
Using Peter as an example would be like stating that denying Christ is an example we should emulate also.
We should seek the utmost, the teaching of Christ first then follow the best examples in the Gospels as models. When Peter led we follow that example.

For those who feel they cannot handle it, they can choose marriage. Priesthood isn’t something you just choose and go for but something you are called to do and not everyone will live up to the high standards.

Just because few will go through the narrow gate to get to Heaven doesn’t make Jesus let everyone in.

Catholics though they fail often are called to seek the most they can do for God not the bare minimum.

In Christ
Scylla

I think recommend is the key word here. Jesus did not command that a priest be celibate. If a man has that gift then great he should stay celibate–but lets face it not many men have that gift, as we have seen.
IMO the CC should make it an option not a rule.
Also I have seen stories where priests and nuns have left their positions to get married and then were excommunicated from the church for it. Why? They were doing the right thing because they didnt have self-control so they got married. I dont see how that should be a reason for ex-communication. I mean they said they still believed in the CC but were not allowed to worship their anymore. I dont get it.

 

[Janet_S]

I think recommend is the key word here. Jesus did not command that a priest be celibate. If a man has that gift then great he should stay celibate–but lets face it not many men have that gift, as we have seen.
IMO the CC should make it an option not a rule.
Also I have seen stories where priests and nuns have left their positions to get married and then were excommunicated from the church for it. Why? They were doing the right thing because they didnt have self-control so they got married. I dont see how that should be a reason for ex-communication. I mean they said they still believed in the CC but were not allowed to worship their anymore. I dont get it.

Of course, we live in a sex-obsessed world, no it’s no surprise that today the idea of celibacy is considered bizarre, unnatural, and counter cultural. But it has not always been this way. People criticize the CC for priestly celibacy, but they often forget Jesus was celibate, and the Catholic priest is an icon of Christ. Priestly celibacy goes back to Apostolic times.

Here is an article by Fr Ray Ryland, a married Catholic priest who defends the ancient discipline of priestly celibacy.
holyspiritinteractive.net/columns/guests/rayryland/thegift.asp

Priests and nuns who leave their vocations are not excommunicated just for leaving. There has to be more to the story. Actually ex-priests and nuns can can get married in the Church.

 

[Janet_S]

well im sorry im bad with dates, but the fact remains that Constantine and his pagan merge to create Roman Catholicism was after the bible was being used by believers. And do you not realize that anyone could see the word for it and copy it? just because a church today has the name of one in the bible doesnt make it about it, they could just copy the name.

also i am not anti-catholics. Roman Catholicism(and im pretty sure im spelling that wrong) is wrong, but i have friends that are and i enjoy those people very much. I just want to show them the truth behind its evils. Many of them are good people, some are saved. I have NOTHING against the people themselves, i only wish they would open their eyes. Do you not know of the queen of heaven? how she ruled in babel before in Rome? We speak of the holy virginity of the church, but she is the mother of harlots, the filthiest whore in the world. This church commited fornication and unholy alliances with kings throughout history, and mary makes no sense unless she is truly the descendant of the ancient religion of babel. I wish for you to see truth, and i love you always. Research this at least, look into the ties, meditate upon what your church has done. Come to Gods love.

Don’t know abou you, but that sounds pretty anti-Catholic to me.

 

[LilyM]

Of course, we live in a sex-obsessed world, no it’s no surprise that today the idea of celibacy is considered bizarre, unnatural, and counter cultural. But it has not always been this way. People criticize the CC for priestly celibacy, but they often forget Jesus was celibate, and the Catholic priest is an icon of Christ. Priestly celibacy goes back to Apostolic times.

Here is an article by Fr Ray Ryland, a married Catholic priest who defends the ancient discipline of priestly celibacy.
holyspiritinteractive.net/columns/guests/rayryland/thegift.asp

Priests and nuns who leave their vocations are not excommunicated just for leaving. There has to be more to the story. Actually ex-priests and nuns can can get married in the Church.

Priests and nuns can be properly dispensed from their vows and marry within the church. It’s only if they attempt to do so outside the church, or without the proper dispensation or what have you, that it becomes a problem.

 

[Janet_S]

I notice that almost all objection to celibate clergy is about sex, not about marriage. It’s all about “men gotta have sex,” not “men gotta join in a lifelong bond with a woman and raise a family.” The arguments for married clergy usually boil down to “men have to have plenty of sex, and marriage is the best way to get it.”

Not a very high view of marriage, IMHO.

I think you’re right.

I also get a sense that the objection is based on the belief that “lack of sex” leads to “perverse behavior.” That’s why people claim priests turn to pedophilia because they are deprived of sex. But if this were true for priests, wouldn’t it be true as well for soldiers who are away from their wives? Or for husbands and wives whose spouses are hospitalized or incapacitated? Would these sexually deprived people go stark-raving mad and be forced to turn to adultery, pedophilia, bestiality, or prostitution?

 

[specops777]

many of you accuse me of being taught to hate the catholic church. Actually ive done all the studing youve recommended and more. Ive seem devastation wreaked by Catholic orders. one man said that your church has 2000 years of history of experience agianst me. Well, i have more. I follow the God who has been around for infinity, and we will bring down your church. You are predicted to win for a little while, But then we will come for you. i wish this war was not needed, that satan hadnt seized the reins of a huge organization. But he was given authority, and he was given your church. I suggest you research me if your anyone important in the church, because i will be your enemy soon. I wont attack physically, but it wouldnt suprise me if you did, its what your church has done in the past. Watch for me and my kind, im going to gather more against you.

 

[Janet_S]

many of you accuse me of being taught to hate the catholic church. Actually ive done all the studing youve recommended and more. Ive seem devastation wreaked by Catholic orders. one man said that your church has 2000 years of history of experience agianst me. Well, i have more. I follow the God who has been around for infinity, and we will bring down your church. You are predicted to win for a little while, But then we will come for you. i wish this war was not needed, that satan hadnt seized the reins of a huge organization. But he was given authority, and he was given your church. I suggest you research me if your anyone important in the church, because i will be your enemy soon. I wont attack physically, but it wouldnt suprise me if you did, its what your church has done in the past. Watch for me and my kind, im going to gather more against you.

I think you need some Prozac.

 

[FCEGM]

. . . I suggest you research me if your anyone important in the church, because i will be your enemy soon. I wont attack physically, but it wouldnt suprise me if you did, its what your church has done in the past. Watch for me and my kind, im going to gather more against you.

Would your name be “Legion”?

 

[specops777]

no, i dont believe so. My mind works perfectly, i have lots of friends and i have some of the higher scores in my state for testing. I dont have violent urges, and i tend to see things as they are, with the slight exception of cutting people too much slack when they dont deserve it and wont change. i really dont want to even argue with you guys, so i think i will stop. I will be attending mass this week Just feel like getting a little better feel for you guys then just reading in Catholic and non-Catholic sources about the religion. Blessed be the trinity, the ONLY holy ones.

 

[LilyM]

Blessed be the trinity, the ONLY holy ones.

You mean you’re not holy? You don’t aspire to be holy? You don’t think you can be holy?

Any one of us has the capacity to be more than holy - ‘Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect’.

 

[specops777]

i cannot be holy, not until God resurrects us. havent you read the bible? you throw these historical reasons for why you believe what you do, but dont base off of scripture? remember his words, “why do you call me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.”

if only god is good, how could you be holy? none are holy except him until we are resurrected and have no sin nature. Its foolishness to believe you are perfect yet still sin.

 

[LilyM]

i cannot be holy, not until God resurrects us. havent you read the bible? you throw these historical reasons for why you believe what you do, but dont base off of scripture? remember his words, “why do you call me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.”

if only god is good, how could you be holy? none are holy except him until we are resurrected and have no sin nature. Its foolishness to believe you are perfect yet still sin.

We can all be sinless, by the grace of God, even on earth. There is nothing in the Bible which indicates that we can’t be, just that we don’t choose it.

Jesus to the rich young man - ‘if you would have eternal life obey the commandments … if you would BE PERFECT sell all that you have and give to the poor …’ sounds very much like the rich young man would have been perfected on earth if he’d done as he was asked.

 

[specops777]

if you would be perfect, meaning if you would become, meaning in the future. Not in this body. Otherwise you have just decreed that the resurection is pointless, for if we are perfect we would need no change of ourselves. That is the point of the resurection, to make us new. A perfect person has no need for a change. Jesus came not for the righteous but the sinners. If you are righteous, you have no need of my Jesus. Dont be discouraged, you have beaten GOD!!! your amazing!!! now revel in your own perfection, while the rest of us trust in god to some day perfect us.

 

[Bob_Byrnes]

There are more and more one priest and no priest parishes these days. Permitting optional celibacy would certainly result in an increase of priests and a far greater availability of the Eucharist to our congregations. As Joan Chitester has said, it seems like the Vatican puts celibacy ahead of the availability of the Eucharist.