Celibacy as a requirement

[Church_Militant]

You are absolutely correct in saying that celibacy is a matter of PERSONAL CHOICE and no church or institution has the right to exclude anyone from pastoral service based on that, if they have been called into service by God - and the scriptures SAY SO !

Also very interesting is that whenever this topic comes up, we are always given the story of the eunich and Pauls’ preamble on abstinance. But he also said very clearly abstinace is NOT FOR EVERYONE. He also said FORCING this upon someone is a DOCTRINE OF DEMONS. See the following scriptures:

Matthew 19:10-12
"10 His disciples say unto him: If the case of a man with his wife be so, it is not expedient to marry.11 Who said to them: All men take not this word, but they to whom it is given. 12 For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it. "

1st Corinthians 7:6-9
“6 But I speak this by indulgence, not by commandment. 7 For I would that all men were even as myself: but every one hath his proper gift from God; one after this manner, and another after that. 8 But I say to the unmarried, and to the widows: It is good for them if they so continue, even as I. 9 But if they do not contain themselves, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to be burnt.”

Now, no one, not even the Catholic Church teaches that this is dogmatic and “forced”. But the words of Our Lord Himself show that it is indeed a divine calling and that those who choose it do so in holy obedience to Christ. That’s why one discerns a vocation.

Absolutely not. As a Christian and Protestant won’t be reading up on the Council of Nicaea - or whatever - any time soon. And as a Christian I don’t recognize your early Catholic “practioners” as any kind of authority ON ANYTHING ! ! !

So, if you want to discuss this topic with me, you should confine yourself to THE WORDS OF CHRIST AND THE APOSTLES ONLY. No other teachings will be recognized here today.

An implied anti-Catholic bias. Catholicism is a Christian church.

So… you will say that you, sitting there with a Bible in hand can correctly interpret the meaning of what is found there without any reference to the millions of believers who went before you? You don’t even practice what you preach here, because I’ll wager that you have a Strong’s Exhastive Concordance at hand there and that your personal Bible is a reference edition which contains notes on what others think about any given passage and that you refer to them as well.

The problem will be that they are modern sources and in ignoring the historically verifiable teachings of those who were taught by the apostles you cheat yourself out of informed insight.

I know for a fact Old and New Testaments are the FINAL authority of God because of this …

Galatians 1:6-9:
…

Do you see the words “cursed” and “another Gospel” …

Not really relevant to this topic. I believe that "another Gospel would be anyone that tells people that they need not be baptized for the to wash away their sins…but that is another thread altogether. See Acts 22:16. There is nothing in the Word of God that supports Sola Scriptura.

(Cont’d)

 

[Church_Militant]

Now let’s look at some of the things that you allege which are also off-topic but I will touch on them briefly.

…some of the things the Catholic Church has been teaching which are not found ANYWHERE in the Old or New Testaments:

1. Praying to statues of dead people

Nowhere taught by the Catholic Church.
Anti-Catholic wishful thinking.

1. Limbus Infantium

Again…not a doctrinal or dogmatic teaching of the Catholic Church.
Anti-Catholic wishful thinking.

1. Purgatory

Scriptural teaching. Biblical and Jewish Traditional Beliefs About Purgatory

1. Paying Indulgences

Incorrect understanding of actual Catholic teaching. Myths About Indulgences and Primer on Indulgences.

1. Beating and cutting oneself as a means to “holiness”

Not a teaching of the Catholic Church.
Anti-Catholic wishful thinking.

1. Burning people at the steak for disagreeing.

Not a teaching of the Catholic Church.
Anti-Catholic wishful thinking. Though in the past, both Catholics and n-Cs carried out this misbegotten behavior.

Yes sir, you can be Catholic all you like, but you cannot add on or take away from the TRUE words of Christ and the Apostles. Christ is the Son of God … no other.

As indicated above… the true words of Christ.

Seems to me that by and large those outside the Catholic Church have set aside the teachings of Christ in favor of the teachings of men in the case of celibacy.

But a church or institution IS FORBIDDEN to make requirements that FORCE people into doing things they don’t want to.

So then, in your opinion, it is unscriptural for churches to require repentance for salvation?

Verification is way different than ILLEGAL REQUIREMENTS … especially in view of the preponderance of available “Bible” scripture that ENCOURAGES them to marry. Well, sorry if I’m tiring you out, I’ll let you go now. The words of Christ and the Apostles are final and cannot be argued with.

The New Testament actually encourages both…not just marriage. Your teaching is Biblically out of balance.

About all those other practices, no sir, I know that Catholics practiced those things and many still do. Sorry.

So the human failings of individual members of any church invalidate the truths of that church? Then you have just shot yourself in the foot. (Actually more like through the head.) because you have essentially stated that because some are unfaithful the entire belief system is indicted as untrue.

That’s not only illogical, it’s not even what you really believe, (is it?) I have known many sinful and imperfect n-Cs and still do. They are no better or worse than the human beings in my Catholic faith so far as I can tell. However, the best and most faithful of both groups are the ones I choose to consider in my thinking concerning both groups.
Pax tecum,

 

[Church_Militant]

The Catholic Church pasted this celibacy requirement against its priest around 1100 AD due all the adultery perpetrated by Catholic priests and the Vatican could no longer keep up with the child support law suits. Check the historical record for yourself.

I suggest that you do so as well…preferably an objective source. This is a load of a-C bunk. "Child support lawsuits? In 1100? Ludicrous! No such existed at that time.

Abstaining from marriage was NEVER required by Christ and the Apostles. In fact, they commanded the exact opposite to “prevent perversions”.

Our Lord’s words in the Gospel certainly seem more authoritative than your personal opinion and (deliberate?) misinterpretation. Why do you attack the one church that offers men the choice to obey the Lord Jesus Christ? I personally know no celibate n-C clergy. That’s certainly not scriptural.

You should also know that the Catholic Church is NOT the final authority on ANYTHING. The instructions of Christ and the Apostles are final.

1st Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Further, if you want to know God’s instruction on something, you should be READING WHAT THEY SAID for yourself. You have a Bible and it belongs to you so do your own research.

I did. That why I’m Catholic. Here’s my testimony.

But make sure it’s not the Catholic Bible which comes from the Vulgate and was extremely altered to suit their own agendas.

I’m sorry… that is just so far removed from any basis in fact.

Now here is what God really said …

1 Timothy 4:1-5

Hebrews 13:4

Notice that God said marriage is HONORABLE FOR ALL and that includes priests, pastors and bishops, etc. He does not condemn ANYONE for being married.

You really should look into who Paul was writing about there. Being ignorant of history of your own religion has made you twist the meaning of a passage.
Encratites

’Egkrateîs (Irenæus) ’Egkratetai (Clement of Alexandria, Hippolytus)].

Literally, “abstainers” or “persons who practised continency”, because they refrained from the use of wine, animal food, and marriage. The name was given to an early Christian sect, or rather to a tendency common to several sects, chiefly Gnostic, whose asceticism was based on heretical views regarding the origin of matter.

In future, please check to see what Christ and the Apostles said.

I did. See my testimony link above.

Be also advised that the doctrines of the Catholic Church hardly EVER match what Christ and the Apostles said, so we need to be careful about what they teach .

More anti-Catholic wishful thinking…and already answered.

The scriptures you quoted were given to allow men to make their OWN decisions. They were not given to FORCE celibacy upon anyone, which is exactly what the Catholic Church has done!

This is lamed by the fact that the Catholic Church forces the priesthood upon no one. They have the choice…and there are faithful rites of the where priest can be married and even among the western rite there are dispensations.

(Cont’d)

 

[Church_Militant]

Okay, and how many of these are homosexual?

None that I have ever met.

Notice also, that these “growing” memberships began just about the same time as the child molestation law suits became public. What’s going on here is very clear to see. Homosexuals have always been lonely and hungry for God (which is good). Once they found out they can be closer to God and in the company of their own kind (and I don’t mean that maliciously) they enlisted all over the place.

This is nothing but biased rhetorical propaganda. The actual statistics prove that the rate among n-C clergy is about the same and among Catholic clergy. Sounds more like a human problem than a Catholic one. Case in point.

Also very interesting is that whenever this topic comes up, we are always given the story of the eunich and Pauls’ preamble on abstinance. But he also said very clearly abstinace is NOT FOR EVERYONE.

Only by someone who doesn’t know what they are talking about. There’s no case for celibacy to be made from the Ethiopian eunuch. In fact I’ve been here at CAF for over 2 years and have yet to ever see that used for this topic.

He also said FORCING this upon someone is a DOCTRINE OF DEMONS.

Here’s the note on the passage you are quoting from my Bible.

3 "Forbidding to marry, to abstain from meats"… He speaks of the Gnostics, the Marcionites, the Eneratites, the Manicheans, and other ancient heretics, who absolutely condemned marriage, and the use of all kind of meat; because they pretended that all flesh was from an evil principle. Whereas the church of God, so far from condemning marriage, holds it a holy sacrament; and forbids it to none but such as by vow have chosen the better part: and prohibits not the use of any meats whatsoever in proper times and seasons; though she does not judge all kind of diet proper for days of fasting and penance.

 

[governorperez]

dear Friends,

celibacy for priests who tend to their flock is practical - the shepherd’s vessel is not divided in time,energy and finances - only one family , the spiritual flock.

thank you. God bless you.
gov