Celibacy in marraige

[777]

Pro-Life_Teen:

In those times, many men had a number of wives, and/or concubines. It was not uncommon.

All that changed when the day The New Testament came.

Pro-Life_Teen:

Yucc? Dude, sex and being naked isn’t evil at all. Sex is sacred, our bodies are temples, yes, but in those temples we can create life with the help of God.
A woman’s body is a temple that can hold a child. Why would you not see something like that as perfect and holy and great?.

Then how come the we got The Catholic League Of Decency?

Pro-Life_Teen:

And as has been said, most all married people, saints included, have had sex. Now, if it was so wrong, they’d all be sinning. And every child would be a product of sin-- their parents loving each other.

Saints Peter and Paul had no sex.

 

[Krasnaya_Kometa]

777:

Saints Peter and Paul had no sex.

How many hundreds of saints are there?

 

[YinYangMom]

777:

Don’t forget, at that time, Adam and Eve weren’t ashamed till they ate the forbidden fruit; after that, they sewed fig leaves to cover themselves.

Right. Because that is the way God intended marriage to be - whole, complete, celebratory in each other. It was with the Fall that shame entered the picture…and the shame came from knowing they disobeyed God. Nothing else changed. Woman was still beautiful in her nakedness as was Man, and sexual union was still called for as a way to celebrate God by creating life. What changed was man and woman’s perceptions. The natural order still existed and was expected.

Fast forward and we have Christ dying and rising from the dead to make up for the original Fall. In baptism you and your wife were born anew…you became the new adam and eve of your day…and when the two of you chose to marry you presented yourselves in the Garden before God to enter the covenant with him just as Adam and Eve did in the beginning. Unfortunately you carried the Fall into your marriage when you and she did not fall yourselves. In essence you tossed aside Christ’s death and resurrection for you as if it never happened because you still view each other’s body with shame.

Sex is not secular. Sex is God designed. The abuse of sex, the distortion of sex - that is secular. Why would you choose to carry the distortions into your Catholic marriage?

There’s also the matters of God’s Laws Of Decency.

And what are those? Why would they supercede His original design?

 

[777]

YinYangMom:

Fast forward and we have Christ dying and rising from the dead to make up for the original Fall. In baptism you and your wife were born anew…you became the new adam and eve of your day…and when the two of you chose to marry you presented yourselves in the Garden before God to enter the covenant with him just as Adam and Eve did in the beginning. Unfortunately you carried the Fall into your marriage when you and she did not fall yourselves. In essence you tossed aside Christ’s death and resurrection for you as if it never happened because you still view each other’s body with shame.

Sex is not secular. Sex is God designed. The abuse of sex, the distortion of sex - that is secular. Why would you choose to carry the distortions into your Catholic marriage?

Strange. My parents approved me and my wife’s idea of no sex. I was brought up that way.

 

[otm]

\

I don’t mean to nit-pick, but i think the phrase you are looking for is Chasity in Marriage. Chasity is not have Sex, which is what I think you are getting at. To be celebate means that you can’t marry. The only reason I know this is because I am a Seminarian and that tell us to make a point about it when people try to use the two words interchangably. I don’t mean to be offensive, but I just thought I would make that point. I really wish I could give you some advice on how to help your Marriage, but I don’t have any experience in that part of life. I wish you the best of luck!

No, Chastity means right relationships sexually. All married couples are called to chastity.

Celibacy means not being married

What you mean is continent.

 

[YinYangMom]

777:

Strange. My parents approved me and my wife’s idea of no sex. I was brought up that way.

You married before God.
You entered the covenant with God.
You entered into a sacramental marriage as guided by the Church and along with that Pope JPIIs teachings on the Theology of the Body.
Your parents do not over rule the Pope in this matter.

Heck, my parents would support contraception in my marriage - doesn’t mean that’s what I’ve chosen. They are wrong in their guidance on that matter for the Church says otherwise.

Besides, apparently your parents had sex. They were open to God’s blessing. Surely, this was not a shameful YUCK act, as it resulted in you and you are truly a blessing to this world, most especially to your wife. Were you a snotty nosed brat? Were you a rebellious teen? So much so that your parents regret ever having you? It appears not, for you love God, you’ve found a woman to share your life with, and you still have a close relationship with your parents. Your parents are proof enough for you to know all children are not a pain.

Look, I’m not pushing the having kids part…that really is between you, your wife, and God. But honestly, you need to broaden your heart and mind beyond that which your parents have taught you to include the teachings of JPII. Christopher West does such a wonderful job explaining it. I pray you will listen to his CD and read his books on the matter…and then revisit your position on celibacy in your marriage. Perhaps you will still choose that path, but at least it will be a decision based on True Teachings instead of misunderstandings.

Right now the way you describe your understanding of sex represents Satan’s manipulations, not God’s will. How happy he is to know he has convinced you to go against God’s design. And he’s managed to do it by leading you to believe you are pleasing God. That’s how he succeeded with Eve as well…convincing her God really wasn’t going to be angry if she ate the fruit…that she wouldn’t really ‘die’. Here, he’s managed to convince you sex is bad, it’s weak, it’s disgusting…but that’s what he wants you to believe so that you won’t bring another soul into this world for God…better yet…he succeeds by convincing you you cannot Trust God with your marriage…that it’s better to keep matters in your own hands by refusing any possibility of life than to trust God to guide you.

 

[porthos11]

Pro-Life_Teen:

Marriage is so that a man and a woman can share their sexual love with each other, have children, help their spouse get to heaven etc.

And if you have never consumated your marriage, it isn’t valid.

Not just that.

Even if one or both of the partners entered into marriage with the intention of not having children, the marriage is invalid to begin with, and there exists grounds for anullment.

 

[777]

porthos11:

Not just that.

Even if one or both of the partners entered into marriage with the intention of not having children, the marriage is invalid to begin with, and there exists grounds for anullment.

I thought annullment and divorce were sinful.

And if the truth be known, me and my wife, secretly, don’t know HOW to have sex. Myself no less. My parents never gave me any sex ed and neither did the scholls me and my wife went to. Or something like that.

 

[Savonarola]

Ashen Lady:

But if you really want to be celebate in marriage, there is nothing anyone can do to stop you; however, God gave humans sexual instincts and He did that on purpose.

I agree. God gave us sexual instincts on purpose. But that raises the question of why sex is seen as bad when done for pleasure or enjoyed outside of marriage since those instincts are usually even stronger then?

 

[jegow]

Savonarola:

I agree. God gave us sexual instincts on purpose. But that raises the question of why sex is seen as bad when done for pleasure or enjoyed outside of marriage since those instincts are usually even stronger then?

God also gave animals sexual instincts - however - we are different than dogs or any other type of animal. Animals act out animal instincts and humans act out of free-will. Obviously the sexual act is to be looked at in a different way too. The conjugal act is reserved only for a man and a woman who have united themselves by the bond of marriage. Then too, the act is to be done only in a way that it is both unitive and procreative (Humanae Vitae 12) otherwise it too is sinful. These instincts that you mention sound more like LUST which happens to be one of the seven deadly sins. And by the way - sexual relations outside of marriage is called adultery and it is a serious sin against marriage and God and therefore sex is seen as bad when it is done in that context.

 

[YinYangMom]

777:

I thought annullment and divorce were sinful.

And if the truth be known, me and my wife, secretly, don’t know HOW to have sex. Myself no less. My parents never gave me any sex ed and neither did the scholls me and my wife went to. Or something like that.

Annulment and divorce are not sinful.
Entering into a new relationship after divorce is sinful (adultery).
Entering into a new relationship after annulment is ok since the annulment rules the previous marriage was invalid.
But both should be the absolute last resort taken, especially when children are involved.

As for knowing ‘how’ to have sex…again, I suggest you start with Christopher West - Eucharist and Marriage, and the Good News About Sex and Marriage, as well as Theology of the Body…
read these, listen to CDs, speak to your priest - have some good heart to heart talks with him. Visit CoupletoCouple league on line. When you discover the beauty and glory of the human body, the rest will come naturally. But right now you have to deprogram yourself…and that’s a difficult task. I might also suggest Catholic marriage counseling.

 

[jegow]

Ashen Lady:

When sex is engaged in properly, it is the most beautiful and spiritual thing that a married couple can do. Without sex, you wouldn’t be here; none of us would. But if you really want to be celebate in marriage, there is nothing anyone can do to stop you; however, God gave humans sexual instincts and He did that on purpose.

Savonarola, I think you misquoted what was said. You only gave Ashen Lady credit for saying what is in blue that God gave humans sexual instincts - however - not that she said what was in the red as well, “When sex is engaged in properly.”

Savonarola:

I agree. God gave us sexual instincts on purpose. But that raises the question of why sex is seen as bad when done for pleasure or enjoyed outside of marriage since those instincts are usually even stronger then?

So it does not raise any question other than how it can be engaged in properly and not. Sex outside of marriage, fornication or adultery, are sinful and wrong for starters. Second, you seem to raise the question of why something should be bad if it feels so good - and that is a sad way to look at it because it is being looked at through the lens of sin. My questions to you would be - If sin were not alluring why would people be tempted to do it? Does just because something is alluring or enjoyable mean that it is always right?

 

[YinYangMom]

Savonarola:

I agree. God gave us sexual instincts on purpose. But that raises the question of why sex is seen as bad when done for pleasure or enjoyed outside of marriage since those instincts are usually even stronger then?

In the beginning sex was not seen as bad.
Adam and Eve were in awe with each other, seeing each as God’s beautiful gift to the other, they couldn’t contain themselves so they united in their joy for having found ‘flesh of my flesh’…and God told them to be fruitful.

Then it was as beautiful as it should be in any Catholic marriage…it is that end goal we are seeking as a married couple…to have every physical union be a reenactment of that first discovery of God’s love through the giving of oneself to another in praise of Him.

But with the Fall, Eve felt the ‘lust’ in Adam’s look and she was ashamed, covering herself in order to protect herself from unwanted desire. And ever since then we’ve been having to struggle within ourselves to view the opposite sex in its ‘right order’ instead of the distorted view which came with the Fall.

The ‘right order’ is within marriage as that is how God designed it. Just as Adam longed for someone to be with until God created Eve, our bodies long for that as well, but until we find our spouse we are called to offer up any desire for the flesh for the greater good. This enables us to give ourselves completely to our spouse when we are married, as we have not given ourselves to any other person until then.

 

[777]

I just wish people would stop using fancy words like fornication. Just sex out of marriage is fine with me.

One thing’s for sure: I would NEVER remarry if anything happened to my wife. After all, what God put together, allow no one put astunder. So, if I was to have sex with my wife, I want it to last for 12 hours–so that me and my wife can make up for lost time. I want to have sex with my wife!! And she wants it too for so long!! We will have sex. A LOT. Just one last thing: I heard some one say you can have sex and not get a wife pregnant. Sorry if I am dealing with a tender subject, so all of you, please forgive me.

 

[Ashen_Lady]

777:

Then how come the we got The Catholic League Of Decency?

This is a total non sequitur, but does ‘Catholic League of Decency’ sound like the Junior Anti Sex League from 1984 by George Orwell? I realise that it probably isn’t anything like that, but it just invokes the same kind of image.

Thank you for indulging me.

 

[YinYangMom]

777:

I just wish people would stop using fancy words like fornication. Just sex out of marriage is fine with me.

One thing’s for sure: I would NEVER remarry if anything happened to my wife. After all, what God put together, allow no one put astunder. So, if I was to have sex with my wife, I want it to last for 12 hours–so that me and my wife can make up for lost time. I want to have sex with my wife!! And she wants it too for so long!! We will have sex. A LOT. Just one last thing: I heard some one say you can have sex and not get a wife pregnant. Sorry if I am dealing with a tender subject, so all of you, please forgive me.

Were you present and conscious when you married?
You recall some parts of the vows but not others…odd.
“Til death do us part”…
Man isn’t putting asunder your marriage vows in that situation…it’s God himself by calling your spouse home.
Of course, you don’t have to marry after her death anyway.

As for the rest of your post, it seems obvious you are yanking quite a few chains here. I will make note not to get sucked in any longer.

Peace be with you.

 

[jegow]

777:

I just wish people would stop using fancy words like fornication. Just sex out of marriage is fine with me.

Sorry, it is not meant to be a fancy word and it is not. It is the title given to that sin. A person who has sexual relations before marriage fornicates while a person who has sexual realtions with someone other than his or her spouse adulterates.

777:

I want it to last for 12 hours–so that me and my wife can make up for lost time.

And this is just unrealistic and I think improper to be told here - don’t fall into the sin of lust. For lost time??? Please, marriage is not a license for unadulterated endless sexual pleasure.** **
It is a sacred thing - not a marathon.

 

[felra]

777:

I just wish people would stop using fancy words like fornication. Just sex out of marriage is fine with me.

One thing’s for sure: I would NEVER remarry if anything happened to my wife. After all, what God put together, allow no one put astunder. So, if I was to have sex with my wife, I want it to last for 12 hours–so that me and my wife can make up for lost time. I want to have sex with my wife!! And she wants it too for so long!! We will have sex. A LOT. Just one last thing: I heard some one say you can have sex and not get a wife pregnant. Sorry if I am dealing with a tender subject, so all of you, please forgive me.

I just revisited this thread and began reading from the last post up, and this is a bizzarre sounding post. I am debating whether to read up further to put it into better context.

 

[777]

felra:

I just revisited this thread and began reading from the last post up, and this is a bizzarre sounding post. I am debating whether to read up further to put it into better context.

Sorry. I didn’t mean to get carried away. It won’t happen no more, word of honor.:crying:

So it seems fornication sounds better. The word, that is…

 

[777]

jegow:

Sorry, it is not meant to be a fancy word and it is not. It is the title given to that sin. A person who has sexual relations before marriage sins while a person who has sexual realtions with someone other than his or her spouse adulterates.And this is just unrealistic and I think improper to be told here - don’t fall into the sin of sex. For lost time??? Please, marriage is not a license for unadulterated endless sexual pleasure.** **

It is a sacred thing - not a marathon.

Sorry again. You see, a friend of mine once told me that a handful of married couples take part in such “marathons of endless sexual pleasure.” I didn’t mean to get carried away.:crying: Forgive me.