Celibate & Married (NFP)

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ok, someone out there is an effective prayer warrior - or maybe all of us together

she came home from her overnight trip in a great mood…and “frisky!” - She put in a movie for the kids and started talking about how she will start her period tomorrow, and staring at me with that little smile - anyway, you know where that led! 🙂

maybe her girlfriends talked with her as well, who knows - I know thay stayed up late talking - a couple of her friends lost hubby’s to affairs and porn, so maybe they told her how good she has it

anyway, thanks for the prayers - I’ll keep you updated, hopefully the momentum will continue - honestly, I am skeptical about long-term change, but that comes from years of dealing with this - I’ll take what I get though, and keep hope alive!

—john
 
I think a good thing to do is love you wife as Christ loves the Church. When a temptation comes, think of the other person that is not your wife as another religion or denomination. You would never want to leave the Catholic faith, the thought should make you sick to your stomach. So too when you look at another person besides your wife.
 
johndelacruz said:
ok, someone out there is an effective prayer warrior - or maybe all of us together

she came home from her overnight trip in a great mood…and “frisky!” - She put in a movie for the kids and started talking about how she will start her period tomorrow, and staring at me with that little smile - anyway, you know where that led! 🙂

maybe her girlfriends talked with her as well, who knows - I know thay stayed up late talking - a couple of her friends lost hubby’s to affairs and porn, so maybe they told her how good she has it

anyway, thanks for the prayers - I’ll keep you updated, hopefully the momentum will continue - honestly, I am skeptical about long-term change, but that comes from years of dealing with this - I’ll take what I get though, and keep hope alive!

—john
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Awww yeah!! :cool:

I’ll keep you in my prayers man.
 
johndelacruz said:
ok, someone out there is an effective prayer warrior - or maybe all of us together

she came home from her overnight trip in a great mood…and “frisky!” - She put in a movie for the kids and started talking about how she will start her period tomorrow, and staring at me with that little smile - anyway, you know where that led! 🙂

maybe her girlfriends talked with her as well, who knows - I know thay stayed up late talking - a couple of her friends lost hubby’s to affairs and porn, so maybe they told her how good she has it

anyway, thanks for the prayers - I’ll keep you updated, hopefully the momentum will continue - honestly, I am skeptical about long-term change, but that comes from years of dealing with this - I’ll take what I get though, and keep hope alive!

—john
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I pray she continues to at least realize likelihood of pregnancy right before her period is extremely small. Even once a month is way better than going years. Perhaps, she thought over you guys’ talk even though she was resistant at the time (and you’re right, her girlfriends may have told her she was being unfair). Besides, you guys only have two and at your age, your likelihood of ending up with an out of control family size is pretty small.
 
WingsOfEagles said:
I pray she continues to at least realize likelihood of pregnancy right before her period is extremely small. Even once a month is way better than going years. Perhaps, she thought over you guys’ talk even though she was resistant at the time (and you’re right, her girlfriends may have told her she was being unfair). Besides, you guys only have two and at your age, your likelihood of ending up with an out of control family size is pretty small.
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In her defense, out of control to her might be 3 kids - that’s what it sounds like anyway.
God Bless
Rye
 
ryecroft said:
In her defense, out of control to her might be 3 kids - that’s what it sounds like anyway.
God Bless
Rye
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It could be, but I consider “out of a control” to be anything that gets a major eyebrow raise out of secular society. In my experience, 3 does not and 4 is usually even still in the acceptable realm. I know this is partially personal opinion, but I don’t think secular society starts thinking you’re “strange” until you have 5 or more.
 
She’s not afraid of more kids because of any social stigma, friends of ours have 3 and 4 kids - her reasons revolve around two issues:
  1. She feels that we cannot afford to have any more children.
  2. She feels that since she is older (39 almost 40) she is more at risk to have a baby with Down Syndrome.
Those two things loom huge in her mind, and I don’t minimize them - I am not asking her to have more children, only to work with NFP to make a prudent decision on when to have marital relations, so we don’t have to avoid marital relations altogether -

By the way, she didn’t “start” yesterday as she expected, so she is now worrying herself to pieces until she does start -

—john
 
KostyaJMJ said:
Is there perhaps a safe anaphrodisiac that a man like you can use to eliminate unwanted sexual desires? That is the one thing that comes to mind in all of the threads involving abstinence in marriage.

Perhaps you can focus on techniques to eliminate your libido. Prayer, exercise, tobacco, certain herbs and supplements can all go a long way to blunt or eliminate sexual desire. With as unwanted as sexual desire is for many catholics I’m surprised there isn’t any focus on how to eliminate it from your life.
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Why should the man have to eliminate his libido? That’s a part of us. That defines us. The suggestion is ridiculous. Wives need to step up and do their duty, not expect their man to take a pill or whatever that will redefine everything he is just so they can avoid a sexual encounter.
 
Abbett999 said:
Why should the man have to eliminate his libido? That’s a part of us. That defines us. The suggestion is ridiculous. Wives need to step up and do their duty, not expect their man to take a pill or whatever that will redefine everything he is just so they can avoid a sexual encounter.
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So, conversely I suppose you also feel that your wife shouldn’t have to take a pill every day to sterilize the marital embrace and derail a perfectly functioning reproductive system just so you can indulge in a “sexual encounter” whenever you want it? Right?
 
johndelacruz said:
She’s not afraid of more kids because of any social stigma, friends of ours have 3 and 4 kids - her reasons revolve around two issues:
  1. She feels that we cannot afford to have any more children.
  2. She feels that since she is older (39 almost 40) she is more at risk to have a baby with Down Syndrome.
Those two things loom huge in her mind, and I don’t minimize them - I am not asking her to have more children, only to work with NFP to make a prudent decision on when to have marital relations, so we don’t have to avoid marital relations altogether -

By the way, she didn’t “start” yesterday as she expected, so she is now worrying herself to pieces until she does start -

—john
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Her worry and anxiety in itself can delay a period.
 
SwizzleStick said:
So, conversely I suppose you also feel that your wife shouldn’t have to take a pill every day to sterilize the marital embrace and derail a perfectly functioning reproductive system just so you can indulge in a “sexual encounter” whenever you want it? Right?
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My wife’s not on the pill. Your point?
 
I haven’t read this whole thread but perhaps she would be more willing to use NFP if you use a more ‘modern’ method. Using the Marquette Method (using the ClearBlue Easy Monitor) there would be absolutely no question that she has already ovulated and once you are 3 days past that there is virtually no chance of pregnancy.
 
taryn237 said:
I haven’t read this whole thread but perhaps she would be more willing to use NFP if you use a more ‘modern’ method. Using the Marquette Method (using the ClearBlue Easy Monitor) there would be absolutely no question that she has already ovulated and once you are 3 days past that there is virtually no chance of pregnancy.
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Is the Creighton method not considered modern?

She would also read into your word “virtually” and see room for doubt -

—john
 
johndelacruz said:
Is the Creighton method not considered modern?

She would also read into your word “virtually” and see room for doubt -

—john
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Maybe high tech would have been a better phrase.

We’ve done a few different types of NFP during our 9 years of marriage and Marquette is the simplest. I found Creighton confusing but that might be because breastfeeding can cause mucus when you aren’t actually fertile. With MM all she would have to do is pee on the test strip and stick it in the monitor, it evaluates everything for you. If you think she would be willing to try I would suggest going over to the Marquette forum and asking about actual chances of conception during phase 3.
 
It’s funny, but I guess not funny, that “virtually” gets read into when it comes to NFP but not for anything else. No birth control besides total abstinence or the removal of the sexual organs is 100%. Even perfect use for the pill is 98% or so. Typical use is around 92%.

Using a condom’s perfect use is lower and typical use is even worse as wlel.

Perfect use of NFP provides for 99%, especially if it’s Phase III only. The challenge there of course is that Phase III comes with lower libido… something all women on artificial birth control can attest to.

As an aside, I find it brutally ironic that hormonal contraception has been billed as freeing for all parties involved. No “burden” of children, no being worried that there’s an “accident.” And not only is it not 100%, it also destroys women’s libidos in the vast majority of cases since they’re perpetually stuck in an artificial version of Phase III. I’m sure it’s been a big help for marriages. :rolleyes:
 
Abbett999 said:
My wife’s not on the pill. Your point?
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Okay. That was my point, your wife shouldn’t have to take a pill either.

I apologize for my tone. I guess I was just reacting to your attitude in your other thread (which has since been removed) and it carried over to this one.
 
Women (I being one) react in odd ways sometimes when they are dealing with something internally. I know I get mood swings and don’t want to do something if I am battling something within myself. It seems like she is using sex to try to gain control over something in her life. Because for some reason, her life seems unmanageable, and out of control. The no sex keeps it in control for her somehow.

I would recommend a recovery class for her to sort through her emotions. I don’t think it’s biblical for her to not be open to more children. The NFP may have exhausted her with temperature/etc. I don’t know if even this is god’s plan, as we did not have thermometers by our beds for 1000’s of years.

Since you are coming to the end of your patience on the matter it’s God’s way to say ramp it up a bit and try to resolve the issue.

I would avoid areas where you may be persuaded to be sinful in mind/thoughts, at least until you and your wife/priest can talk. Prayer, fasting, rosary, Adoration are all beautiful ways to take this time for your family.

Also, she may not want to share with you her feelings. She may need to sort them out on her own in a recovery program of some sort. There could be some sexual abuse/emotional… I’m not sure I’m just saying that it’s not my business but things can come up decades later that we are unprepared to deal with.

Essentially being open to life sexual union and procreation cannot be separated, is God’s plan. I think there’s an encyclical on this.

In Christ,
Lily
johndelacruz said:
Hello friends

I will try to give the short version to start off:

My wife and I have been married for 12 years and have two children age 6 and 3 - after the birth of our second child, my wife decided to abandon NFP - she will not have sex unless I use a condom - we are both Catholic converts, she 5 years after me - we took the NFP classes together - when she did use NFP, I did all the charting - all she had to do was take the temps each morning, but now she refuses to do that - A couple years ago, I even bought her a new thermometer that is much quicker (her excuse before was that it took too long in the mornings), but she hasn’t used it once.

Now it has been 3 1/2 years and we have sex only once, about 2 years ago - and she regretted that right away, worried so much about getting pregnant again ( we are both almost 40) - even though it was right before her period and I knew that she was well past her ovulation time and thus, in her infertile time - she doesn’t trust NFP - the pill makes her sick - she pressures me to use a condom, but I won’t budge due to the Church’s clear teaching on the matter - I explain to her that condoms aren’t 100% either, plus all the other moral issues, we’ve discussed this so much, she knows the reasons - then I get painted as the one who is refusing her sex.

She seems resolved to never have sex again if I don’t use a condom (she has said as much to me) and I am resolved to not use a condom and commit sin -

I’ve asked advice from a couple priests and I got the same answer: I am to live as a celibate within my marriage - honestly, what other option is there, despite my intense desire for sexual intimacy?:
  1. find someone else to have sex with on the side: SIN
  2. indulge in internet porn: SIN
  3. masturbate: SIN
  4. divorce her and find someone new: SIN
  5. offer up this suffering and live as a celibate, while Iiving and sharing a bed with my wife:
Of course this last one is the only moral option for a faithful Catholic - but I have offered it up for over 3 1/2 years - it is quite a heavy cross to bear - I find myself taking notice of attractive females more when I am out, and I know that it is because I am being sexually starved at home, on purpose, rejected - I am self-aware that I am hungry for physical affection and sexual intimacy, and that is a dangerous situation for a man to be in entering mid-life.

She says that I am a wonderful husband - that is, when she is not lashing out in rage at me for various unpreditable reasons - I do a great deal of the cleaning, cooking and child care when I am home in the evenings and weekends (she is a stay at home mom) - I won’t get into all that, but I know that I pull my load and more, but get no respect and, of course, no sex.

I have talked with her until the subject is very sore and only makes her angry when I bring it up, so I have stopped that tactic - I pray for her - I am resolved to stay - I do not engage in any sexually illicit activity - I am trying to be patient

Anyone have any other thoughts or insights?
thanks,
—john
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^ she may be dealing with more internally, who knows

She has been reading the book by Dr. Laura that I suggested, “The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands”, actually reading it, nightly, with a bookmark stuck in it, and she is over halfway through - she is being nicer. She is trying. I really think she has been oblivious to how rotten she has treated me over the years, and maybe this book is opening her eyes to it. It is a really good hard-hitting book, I’m glad she is sticking with it.

thanks for the continued advice and prayers
—todd
 
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