Cell Phone Address Book

[Orionthehunter]

One of my dearest and longest friends is female. While she lives over a thousand miles away and we see each other only once every 3-5 years (class reunions are only once every 10 years), when we get together our spouses tend to the kids (actually we both have teens so the last time there were no kids!) and hang out together in what they lament is total boredom and drudgery while we act like children. We exchange emails probably a few times a month and talk on the phone a couple of times during the years (near our birthdays as I usually call belatedly :tsktsk: )

Our relationship has never been sexual or improper except for one ill-advised make-out session when we were H.S. sophomores. Both of our spouses know and understand how important this relationship is to us and they have never discouraged it. In fact, my wife has even called my friend when she thinks I’m being a stubborn man and wants someone else to whack me. While I would respect my wife if she wanted me to cease this relationship, it would be an issue of jealousy and being a control freak that probably points to a deeper issue that needs to be dealt with.

On the flip side, we both have people with whom we have dated for long periods that we still consider friends. While I trust my wife completely, maintaining a close relationship with those men and me vice versa, is probably not proper. In this situation, it is more a sign of respect for the feelings of our spouse to not maintain the relationship.

My point: Every situation in every marriage is different. The situation needs to be vetted openly and honestly with respect and deference. This is what I recommend the OP do with his wife.

 

[Princess_Abby]

Mt19:26:

What I think is sad is the acceptance I see her of spouses in a marriage allowing close opposite-sex friendships.

I can understand why the idea of “allowing” close, opposite-sex friendships is scary to you, given what your wife chose to do to you. But please understand that your experience is not ours, and that what is now acceptable in your marriage need not be the rule for anyone else’s way of living.

I also have a problem when you start determining what is supposedly a sin or not a sin for anyone other then yourself.

 

[auppie]

Mt19:26:

No, I would not allow it. Just like I would not allow my wife to go out on a date with another man -or- become close to another man. Yes, it’s a partnership, but that does not mean that faithfulness in a relationship should be given a backseat. Maybe “allow” is too strong of a word. Maybe “like” should have been used. I would not like it. And if a spouse does something they their spouse dislikes they are being unfaithful to their spouse.

I am my own person, and no one, not even my husband “allows” or “disallows” me to do anything. I am an adult and am capable of making decisions of my own on my own. I am sure your wife is just as capable.

It is not true if a spouse does something disliked by the other spouse that equates unfaithfulness. Is this saying that you must approve of absolutely everything your wife says or does? If so, then I would think that you may have some control issues going on here.
Mt19:26:

And it doesn’t mean you can find another “best friend” of the opposite sex. Also, if you run to a friend, same sex or not, and expose the private details of your marriage you are being unfaithful to your spouse.

Why not? Sometimes friends of the opposite sex have a different perspective on a certain situation. Discussing private details of a marriage with a friend DOES NOT imply a spouse being unfaithful. Sometimes a person (male or female) needs an outside source (i.e. impartial source) as a sounding board or for someone to vent to.
Mt19:26:

Sorry, I strongly disagree. A spouse’s close friend of the opposite sex should be their spouse. They should not need run to an opposite sex friend for their perspective.

I agree that a “best friend” should be a person’s spouse. However, that is not always the case.

 

[Mt19_26]

Princess_Abby:

Given that this is in response to what I said, which was referring to unmarried friends calling to ask for advice and insight into their relationships with girlfriends…you are way off base.

This is exactly what I mean by twisting what I said. A person can call a friend to ask about advice but they should not reveal any private issues involving the other person. A person’s right to privacy has to be respected. And you or anyone does not have a right to know about another person’s private issues that do not involve you in anyway without their permission.

Princess_Abby:

I think we should agree to disagree, since despite the blanket statements you’ve made, my clarifications make little difference to you. As much as you think I’m supposedly twisting things, I see that from you instead.

Do what works for you and I will do the same.

Your clarifications where statements stretching the subject that I had originally posted about and doing in a confrontational manner by asking sarcastic questions…like, you mean I can’t have a priests number in my phone? If my original post was not specific enough I clarified it in subsequent posts…I don’t agree with close friends of the opposite sex. And anyone who does is playing with fire. Look at society and spend some time doing alittle research and you’ll see that married people having **close **friends of the opposite sex is not a good idea.

 

[auppie]

Mt19:26:

What have I twisted?

You have no idea why my wife did it. You don’t know her. You don’t know her past. You seem to be able to gauge everything about me and the reason my wife was unfaithful through a few posts. That’s a very poor why to judge a situation.

And how am I controlling? Am I controlling because I don’t believe in close opposite-sex friends?

What I think is sad is the acceptance I see her of spouses in a marriage allowing close opposite-sex friendships.

I don’t know what your wife did? You mentioned it in your post. No, I do not know her personally, but perhaps I do in spirit.

You are not controlling because you don’t believe in close opposite-sex friends. You could be controlling because it seems from your posts that you are making all the rules: allowing or disallowing your wife to do things when she is a grown woman; determining who her friends are, who she is and is not allowed to talk to.

It sounds like you’re very bitter about her infidelity, and are suspicious of every move she makes. Have you honestly thought about why she may have strayed? Maybe she sees you in this light.

 

[Orionthehunter]

Mt19:26:

This is exactly what I mean by twisting what I said. A person can call a friend to ask about advice but they should not reveal any private issues involving the other person. A person’s right to privacy has to be respected. And you or anyone does not have a right to know about another person’s private issues that do not involve you in anyway without their permission.

Your clarifications where statements stretching the subject that I had originally posted about and doing in a confrontational manner by asking sarcastic questions…like, you mean I can’t have a priests number in my phone? If my original post was not specific enough I clarified it in subsequent posts…I don’t agree with close friends of the opposite sex. And anyone who does is playing with fire. Look at society and spend some time doing alittle research and you’ll see that married people having **close **friends of the opposite sex is not a good idea.

I disagree as stated in my post below. As C.S. Lewis wrote in “Four Loves”, it is entirely possible and is in fact God-like to have “philia” love (philia means friendship or the love related to fellowship) for others and it isn’t limited to only people of our own gender. And if I have philia love for my female friend who is married, it would be impossible for me to have “eros” love for her as to do so would essentially mean I have no true philia for her.

 

[Mt19_26]

auppie:

I don’t know what your wife did? You mentioned it in your post. No, I do not know her personally, but perhaps I do in spirit.

You are not controlling because you don’t believe in close opposite-sex friends. You could be controlling because it seems from your posts that you are making all the rules: allowing or disallowing your wife to do things when she is a grown woman; determining who her friends are, who she is and is not allowed to talk to.

It sounds like you’re very bitter about her infidelity, and are suspicious of every move she makes. Have you honestly thought about why she may have strayed? Maybe she sees you in this light.

Maybe you thought I was controlling by my words and I tried to clarify that. I said I do not “allow” which I acknowledged was too strong. If something bothers me I tell my wife I don’t “like” it or that it “bothers” me. And sometimes she doesn’t agree that it should bother me and then won’t “hear” my reasons. I don’t go off and demand that she does or does not do something. I voice my feelings and leave it at that.

Also, as I posted earlier. I had pretty much the exact opposite view prior to her infidelity. I didn’t mind her male friends. I knew she had close male friends and it didn’t bother me. I was warned that it was “not right” in a marriage but ignored it. Male friends would call our house asking for her and I’d answer the phone and give it to my wife without thinking twice. So being “controlling” was not the reason for her infidelity. I was no where near being a controlling person back then and I am not now.

In regards to being suspicious? Yes, I am at times. Trust doesn’t get rebuilt overnight. My wife understands that expects it. Bitter? Initially, but not anymore.

 

[James_2_24]

auppie:

I don’t know what your wife did? You mentioned it in your post. No, I do not know her personally, but perhaps I do in spirit.

It seems that you run off at the lip before taking time to read properly the OPs posts. He never said “you don’t know what my wife did”, he said you don’t know her motives like you seem to have said when you said:

auppie:

While I don’t condone what his wife did, I can see why she did it. Sad, sad situation.

So you can see WHY she did it from a few posts? This is an uncharitable thing to say and VERY assuming. I happen to know someone who went through a problem with an unfaithful spouse and the situations can be VERY complex. You claim to “see why she did it” from a few posts. You have lots to learn. I know someone who went through LOTS of pain and depression and I’ve seen kids suffer from an unfaithful spouse. For you to stop just short of blaming the OP for her actions is dispicable. What a way to put salt on somone’s wounds! Yes, you don’t know his entire situation and reasons why she strayed. To take a seroius situation like this and just trivialize it like you have is just wrong. There is no way you can make that statement from just posts on a computer screen. If this is the case you should stop whatever you are doing and be a marriage counselor, you will solve societes problems with such skills.

auppie:

You are not controlling because you don’t believe in close opposite-sex friends. You could be controlling because it seems from your posts that you are making all the rules: allowing or disallowing your wife to do things when she is a grown woman; determining who her friends are, who she is and is not allowed to talk to.

How do you go from one instance to him making ALL the rules? Do you know the totality of their relationship? Besides this they should have some say in each other’s lives, for they are no longer two BUT ONE. So in your previous post where you state:

auppie:

I am my own person, and no one, not even my husband “allows” or “disallows” me to do anything. I am an adult and am capable of making decisions of my own on my own. I am sure your wife is just as capable

If you are in a Sacramental Marriage, you are wrong, you are not your own person and neither is your husband. You are in a covenant, not a contract, you have given the total gift of self. You are capable of making your own decisions, sure… but we, who are married have given up that right equally to one another. Our spouses should have some say in, yes, all of our decisions that can affect them as well. This is what marriage is all about, total self giving and self sacrifice.

That being said, having an opposite-sex friend as a confidant or close friend is wrong in a marriage. I believe if you read or listen to any of the major Catholic speakers on sex and family, they will tell you the same thing: Steve Wood, Christopher West, even the non-Cathoilc (Jewish) Wendy Shalit. I happen to have gone to a few conferences and there they will outline why it is wrong. Perhaps some of us need to listen to these people as they make much sense and have the stats and logic to back up their statements.

God Bless

 

[auppie]

James_2:24:

It seems that you run off at the lip before taking time to read properly the OPs posts. He never said “you don’t know what my wife did”, he said you don’t know her motives like you seem to have said when you said:

So you can see WHY she did it from a few posts? This is an uncharitable thing to say and VERY assuming. I happen to know someone who went through a problem with an unfaithful spouse and the situations can be VERY complex. You claim to “see why she did it” from a few posts. You have lots to learn. I know someone who went through LOTS of pain and depression and I’ve seen kids suffer from an unfaithful spouse. For you to stop just short of blaming the OP for her actions is dispicable. What a way to put salt on somone’s wounds! Yes, you don’t know his entire situation and reasons why she strayed. To take a seroius situation like this and just trivialize it like you have is just wrong. There is no way you can make that statement from just posts on a computer screen. If this is the case you should stop whatever you are doing and be a marriage counselor, you will solve societes problems with such skills.

How do you go from one instance to him making ALL the rules? Do you know the totality of their relationship? Besides this they should have some say in each other’s lives, for they are no longer two BUT ONE. So in your previous post where you state:

If you are in a Sacramental Marriage, you are wrong, you are not your own person and neither is your husband. You are in a covenant, not a contract, you have given the total gift of self. You are capable of making your own decisions, sure… but we, who are married have given up that right equally to one another. Our spouses should have some say in, yes, all of our decisions that can affect them as well. This is what marriage is all about, total self giving and self sacrifice.

That being said, having an opposite-sex friend as a confidant or close friend is wrong in a marriage. I believe if you read or listen to any of the major Catholic speakers on sex and family, they will tell you the same thing: Steve Wood, Christopher West, even the non-Cathoilc (Jewish) Wendy Shalit. I happen to have gone to a few conferences and there they will outline why it is wrong. Perhaps some of us need to listen to these people as they make much sense and have the stats and logic to back up their statements.

God Bless

It seems that you may be as uncharitable as you make me out to be. Let’s just suffice it to say, that we will agree to disagree.

And before you go any further, what makes you think I haven’t had experienced the same situation or have had friends experience it? Perhaps you have more to learn.

 

[Princess_Abby]

Mt19:26:

While reading another thread in this forum, “A Hubby’s Phone”, I thought of another related issue. I was going post in that thread but I think a new thread would be more appropriate.

** What does everyone here think about opposite sex phone numbers in their spouse’s cell phone address book?** Personally, I didn’t think there was a problem with it. But after having gone through infidelity in my marriage I changed my position. I don’t think it’s appropriate anymore. I see no reason why my wife should have another man’s cell phone or home phone number in her addess book. Even if she says he’s “just a friend”. I’ve been burnt by that “just a friend” phrase already and I blame myself for being so naive to actually believe the person she was unfaithful with was “just a friend”.

My wife still has other men’s phone numbers in her cell phone address book and she refer’s to some of them as “just friends”. I have voiced my dislike for having those numbers in there but haven’t gone as far as asking her to remove them. I know that she’ll very likely get upset and start accusing me of not trusting her.

The original post was all about cell phone address books. “Close opposite-sex friends are inappropriate,” is never even mentioned until other posts. You instead state that you can’t think of a reason in which your wife should be able to have another man’s cell phone number in her address book. All of my posts were in response to your original post, yet now you claim that since you keep changing the point of this thread that I’m somehow twisting your words. I did not have sarcastic questions, I simply pointed out that blanketly stating that a wife can “never be allowed” to have male numbers in her cell phone is not exactly realistic and that there are plenty of exceptions to that line of thinking. Given that you really prefer to discuss the appropriateness of close friendships between wives and other men, perhaps you should start a thread specifically about that subject.

Again, I can understand where you’re coming from given that your wife chose to hurt you in a such a deep way, specifically with a male friend that you did not realize would eventually lead to a betrayal. I can also see why and how you trace this back to inappropriate phone calls, given that from what you describe, many men who were unknown to you would call the house and ask to speak to her. My only issue is when you take your experience and apply it universally to every other marriage. I also find it hard to stay en pointe when the focus of discussion changes.

 

[dsmommy]

Why does it seem like everyone is attacking this poor man? There is NO excuse for infidelity, and to say you can see why she did it IS a VERY uncharitable thing to say to someone. And if you can say something like that to someone then you most likely did not go through something like that. The reasons people do those things stem far deeper than just “hey my husband won’t let me have male friends, so I think I’ll cheat on him”. This is ridiculous that this man comes here for advice on whether or not his unfaithful wife can have close male friends, and then he gets put down, by people claiming to understand his wife’s infidelity. That is so sad, coming from a catholic forum. Now forgiveness of what she did is one thing, but that doesn’t mean that he can just pretend it never happened. As far as I’m concerned, after what she did, she has to earn back his trust, and if that means not having men’s cell phone numbers in her phone book then let it be so.

 

[dsmommy]

My only issue is when you take your experience and apply it universally to every other marriage. I also find it hard to stay en pointe when the focus of discussion changes.

I don’t really see where he was applying it to every other marriage. I saw where he was basically talking about his own…There is nothing even in his original post that mentions anyone else’s marriage.

 

[WindyFire12]

One thing I see in common to all the people here saying it’s okay to have close opposite-sex friends is they all seem to have one. Maybe they are just trying to justify themselves.

IT’S WRONG! Read/Study/Listen to any Catholic speaker on this subject and you’ll see it’s wrong, unfaithful, and does not belong in a Sacramental Marriage.

 

[WindyFire12]

auppie:

It seems that you may be as uncharitable as you make me out to be. Let’s just suffice it to say, that we will agree to disagree.

And before you go any further, what makes you think I haven’t had experienced the same situation or have had friends experience it? Perhaps you have more to learn.

You have got alot to learn about marriage from what I can tell from your posts. Anyone, and I MEAN ANYONE, who says it’s okay to have a close opposite-sex friend does not know what a Sacramental Marriage is.

 

[WindyFire12]

James_2:24:

Steve Wood, Christopher West, even the non-Cathoilc (Jewish) Wendy Shalit.

 

[WindyFire12]

d(name removed by moderator)my:

I don’t really see where he was applying it to every other marriage. I saw where he was basically talking about his own…There is nothing even in his original post that mentions anyone else’s marriage.

This is what I see. He doesn’t apply it to anyone’s marriage but his own. But I will, CLOSE OPPOSITE-SEX FRIENDS DO NOT BELONG in a Catholic Sacramental marriage. Many people here have alot to learn about meaning of being married in the eyes of God.

 

[auppie]

d(name removed by moderator)my:

Why does it seem like everyone is attacking this poor man? There is NO excuse for infidelity, and to say you can see why she did it IS a VERY uncharitable thing to say to someone. And if you can say something like that to someone then you most likely did not go through something like that.

As a matter of fact, I did go through this.
d(name removed by moderator)my:

The reasons people do those things stem far deeper than just “hey my husband won’t let me have male friends, so I think I’ll cheat on him”.

This wasn’t the case. Infidelity is a SYMPTOM of something bigger going on, not the cause…and I did not allude that the “cause” was “hey my husband won’t let me have male friends, so I think I’ll cheat on him.”.
d(name removed by moderator)my:

This is ridiculous that this man comes here for advice on whether or not his unfaithful wife can have close male friends, and then he gets put down, by people claiming to understand his wife’s infidelity.

And the point is that women can have platonic male friends. It is not unheard of.

 

[gavin52]

What’s the problem here? Opposite-sex friends are a no-no in a marriage.

 

[gavin52]

auppie:

And the point is that women can have platonic male friends. It is not unheard of.

It’s not unheard of but that does not make it okay. If we used that reasoning abortion would be right in the U.S. and wrong in Mexico. Opposite-sex friends are wrong. Do some research.

 

[auppie]

gavin52:

It’s not unheard of but that does not make it okay. If we used that reasoning abortion would be right in the U.S. and wrong in Mexico. Opposite-sex friends are wrong. Do some research.

Why is that not ok? We are not talking abortion here…so your analogy does not apply. Opposite sex friends are not wrong. Why do research? For what ever the question is, research is generally slanted in that direction.