Centering Prayer and the prayer of recollection

  • Thread starter Thread starter elohimrules
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
By all means just give an emotional view based on nothing more the the authority of …your own “feelings”. Not have you even read any of his works for yourself it seems and are but a sheep of the views of others.

Most intelligent, let alone charitable, Christians seek an informed, objective basis before publicly denigrating, or accepting same, the Catholic status of a fellow Christian.
 
Last edited:
BlackFriar said:
What is your objective basis for saying this.
Click to expand...
Catholic Answers…

Again from the article,
Centering prayer originated in St. Joseph’s Abbey, a Trappist monastery in Spencer, Massachusetts. During the twenty years (1961–1981) when Keating was abbot, St. Joseph’s held dialogues with Buddhist and Hindu representatives, and a Zen master gave a week-long retreat to the monks. A former Trappist monk who had become a Transcendental Meditation teacher also gave a session to the monks.
Click to expand...
 
The Desert Fathers talked about simplified forms of mental prayer, such as acquired recollection. They also talked about infused contemplation. Which is very different from centering prayer.

The Trappist monks who created Centering Prayer did not start with studying the Desert Fathers, but with inviting Buddhists and Transcendental Meditation masters to give lectures and retreats at their monastery.
 
And that only showed them what they had in common with Catholic tradition.

Like the Mantra:
This formula then shall be proposed to you of this system, which you want, and of prayer, which every monk in his progress towards continual recollection of God, is accustomed to ponder, ceaselessly revolving it in his heart, having got rid of all kinds of other thoughts; for he cannot possibly keep his hold over it unless he has freed himself from all bodily cares and anxieties. And as this was delivered to us by a few of those who were left of the oldest fathers, so it is only divulged by us to a very few and to those who are really keen. And so for keeping up continual recollection of God this pious formula is to be ever set before you. O God, make speed to save me: O Lord, make haste to help me, for this verse has not unreasonably been picked out from the whole of Scripture for this purpose. Chapter 10

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/350810.htm
 
misstherese said:
40.png
BlackFriar:
What is your objective basis for saying this.
Click to expand...
Catholic Answers…

Again from the article,
Centering prayer originated in St. Joseph’s Abbey, a Trappist monastery in Spencer, Massachusetts. During the twenty years (1961–1981) when Keating was abbot, St. Joseph’s held dialogues with Buddhist and Hindu representatives, and a Zen master gave a week-long retreat to the monks. A former Trappist monk who had become a Transcendental Meditation teacher also gave a session to the monks.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Please…no person of intelligence or objectivity would leap from these isolated facts to your view “the practice has no roots in Christianity.”

Aquinas spent most of his life studying the Greek philosophers and Muslim writings to broaden his Christian understanding of God.

So the simplistic logic above is a ridiculous. Only someone with a preset position could find it in any way “objective”.
 
Last edited:
I would say she would most definitely discourage it. Centering prayer and Teresa’s prayer of recollection are as different as night and day.

To the OP, I would strongly caution you against centering prayer. Learn to pray from true Carrmelite spirituality. Read the classics of St John of the Cross and Teresa of Avilla. Focus your heart and mind on Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament.

This is one of the few threads that I won’t enter into a discussion on, as it will likely get me worked up. I said my peace. Now, I’m going in peace. 🙂

Focus on the writings of the Saints and their teachings on prayer. That’s what I would encourage you to do.

God Bless.
 
Last edited:
BlackFriar said:
Aquinas spent most of his life studying the Greek philosophers and Muslim writings to broaden his Christian understanding of God.
Click to expand...
He didn’t take their prayer methods and start using them though…you could say I have a bias, sure whatever, (I don’t though; I simply read what Catholic Answers had to say on the subject) but it sounds like you do as well. I’m not going out and finding obscure sources or muddled statements to try to prove a point. I’m literally just repeating what Catholic apologists have said.
 
misstherese said:
I’m literally just repeating what Catholic apologists have said.
Click to expand...
By all means quote where your apologist said that Centering Prayer has no roots in Christianity…because Abbot Keating’s monastery was a venue for some Hindu, Buddhist Christian dialogue conferences over the course of 20 years…

If that is his/her basis for the evil of Centering Prayer then I suggest your apologist is more a biased rhetor than a reasoning apologist.

And of course unthinking parroting of someone we cherry pick to reinforce our own biases, instead of thinking critically, is surely not a great path to wisdom or objective insight either.
 
It’s pretty self explanatory that it has no roots in Christianity when Buddhists were even needed whatsoever for direction. Why even have Hindus or Buddhists in there in the first place??

Centering prayer is not Christian prayer. It’s lack of prayer. Prayer, in the Christian sense, is relational. We talk to God, we meditate on God. We don’t empty ourselves. We come to God.

This is a silly argument and I will not take any more part in it. I’ve said what I was going to say and now I’m done. Good night.
 
Last edited:
misstherese said:
It’s pretty self explanatory that it has no roots in Christianity when Buddhists were even needed whatsoever for direction.
Click to expand...
No, as I say its a highly unwarranted subjective logical non sequitor. For to say this would mean Aquinas was not Catholic…which of course many unthinking Church authorities as gainsayers here attempt without objective basis. He was condemned by local bishops and theologians just like you and others here are trying to do with Fr. Keating. And his only crime is challenging the mental horizons of limited and less than secure minds that are afraid to look over the fence and possibly learn from other traditions and take what is compatible…which was Aquinas’s genius.

Not everybody has this skill. But just because we cannot do this doesnt mean it cannot be done.

When challenged to provide a strong authority or argument…you exit 😮.
 
Last edited:
BlackFriar said:
And his only crime is challenging the mental horizons of limited and less than secure minds who are too avraid to look over the fence and perhaps even learn from other traditions and take what is compatible…which was Aquinas’s genius.

Not everybody has this skill. But just because we cannot do this doesnt mean it cannot be done.
Click to expand...
Not everybody is comfortable looking over the fence. But you are right in that Aquinas and therefore Catholic theology was borrowed or developed from pagan philosophy.

I can see that CP may not be exactly like John Cassian was talking about but it does seem identical to the method Described in the Cloud of Unknowing written in the latter half of the 14th century. And no doubt that anonymous author was influenced by Pseudo Dyonisius and St Bonaventure.

The think is that it takes the Via Negativa and many people not only find that dark, dry and empty but also are repulsed by it and interpret it as dangerous.
 
Last edited:
Can you please point me to an unbiased article on the subject of St. Thomas Aquinas using centering prayer or borrowing other prayer methods from other religions and using them? Any unbiased source that shows any saint used centering prayer?

You are making the claim, therefore you should be able to provide the information.
 
If you are unable to understand the use of analogy there is likely nothing more that can be said to assist you here sorry.
 
Centering Prayer works well for me. I believe there is great confusion thinking of Centering Prayer as an emptying of one’s mind into a passive state, which I would warn against, and be producing a clear and active mind in which we grow closer to God by eliminating vain thoughts, images, worldly desires, and selfhood where we eliminant things like pride, self-esteem, self-identity, self-concept, and so on. The goal, again, is to produce a crystal clear and active mind where we are in communion with God.
 
How about St John Climacus?
  1. Do not be over-sophisticated in the words you use when praying, because the simple and unadorned lisping of children has often won the heart of their heavenly Father.
  2. Do not attempt to talk much when you pray lest your mind be distracted in searching for words. One word of the publican propitiated God, and one cry of faith saved the thief. Loquacity in prayer often distracts the mind and leads to phantasy, whereas brevity2 makes for concentration.
  3. If you feel sweetness or compunction at some word of your prayer, dwell on it; for then our guardian angel is praying with us.
  4. Do not be bold, even though you may have attained purity; but rather approach with great humility, and you will receive still more boldness.
  5. The beginning of prayer consists in banishing the thoughts that come to us by single ejaculations1 the very moment that they appear; the middle stage consists in confining our minds to what is being said and thought; and its perfection is rapture in the Lord.
See step 28
http://www.prudencetrue.com/images/TheLadderofDivineAscent.pdf
 
Last edited:
BlackFriar said:
When challenged to provide a strong authority or argument…you exit
Click to expand...
Because you don’t know how to debate civilly. ( I was actually agreeing with you but your communication style puts me off. Too aggressive)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top