Centering Prayer is dangerous!

[DBT]

buzzcut:

Centering prayer wasn’t exactly “marketed” … people came and asked to hear about it.

“in May 1982, I was asked by the assistant pastor in Aspen to offer a presentation on prayer once a week for four consecutive weeks. A small mention of the event was put in the parish bulletin and, to our surprise, about eighty people showed up.”

Quoted from Intimacy with God by Fr Keating, with my underlining added.

Hey Buzz - Good to see you again

Well I guess it all comes down to what one means by “marketing.” I’m a marketing guy by trade so I’m curious about your post. Two of the most important things marketing people do is to identify the “target audience” and “qualifying your leads.” So how do CP practicioners do that?

So the notice was put in the parish bulletin, 80 people showed up and Fr. Keating began to speak. So what did he say? Did he start right in with the whole concept of CP and the sacred word? Or did he start at the “beginning” of the prayer life?

And what did he “know” about the people in the audience and their spiritual readiness for something like CP? Was he their spiritual director or were they strangers to him?

My guess would be there were very many types of people in the audience . . . from beginners in prayer (yet sincere and curious) to those very much advanced. Some might have been very much helped by what he had to say . . . others had the potential to be hurt by it. If this was the case (and I don’t know it to be) then I’d say in marketing terms that the target audience wasn’t defined very well nor were the prospects qualified. An ad was placed . . . and whoever showed up showed up.

I guess in the days of St. Teresa and the author of The Cloud of Unknowing, the presentation of this type of info was handled in a much more “controlled” kind of setting. The spiritual master knew his pupil as an individual and not as a face in the crowd. The master knew the pupil intimately . . . what was appropriate for him/her and what wasn’t.

While much has been said about the similarities between CP and The Cloud (I agree), one thing I’m sure of is this: the author of The Cloud would never have wanted his book presented to someone who wasn’t ready for it.

Unfortunately it sounds like this happens far to often with CP today as is all to evident in some of the posts I’ve seen around these forums in the last year or so. Ever wonder why these threads get so contentious? My belief (and perhaps I’m wrong) is that it has less to do with the content of CP (which I’m basically OK with) as to how and to whom it is presented.

So that’s what I mean when I talk about marketing . . .

Dave.

 

[buzzcut]

Hi DBT

Good to hear from you. For me the terms “marketing,” “target audience,” and “qualifying your leads” conjure up pictures of Trappist monks sitting round a conference room table poring over colored bar graphs of their latest “sales” figures … an image which to my irreverent sense of humor is amusing, but which some no doubt believe to be an accurate depiction of life in a monastery. Hence my reference to the real story – that the early practitioners of CP did nothing to push their style of prayer, but simply responded to requests for information that came their way. Responding to inquiries I would only call marketing in a very, very broad sense of that word. To most people marketing suggests an intentional and well-planned push, and this as you can read for yourself is not the way CP became popular.

I think the reason these threads become contentious is that critics of CP base their criticism on erroneous conceptions of what CP actually is. Either that or they cite articles that do the same thing – the old “straw man” technique. This is what has led to heated discussions.

Your point, though, is different. What you are saying, if understand you correctly, is simply that the monks were unwise to even discuss this subject in a room full of dozens of strangers whose spiritual lives were unknown. And I can see your point there. As you suggest, in 14th, 15th or 16th century, only well-qualified religious would have received this kind of instruction.

But on the other hand, things are different today. The very fact that an assistant pastor would ask the monks to give four talks about prayer, and the fact that 80 people responded to a small bulletin announcement, suggests to me that a great spiritual hunger exists. And given this hunger, especially among laypeople, where would the manpower be to sit down individually with each of those 80 people and talk with them on a one-on-one basis?

 

[ncjohn]

buzzcut:

The very fact that an assistant pastor would ask the monks to give four talks about prayer, and the fact that 80 people responded to a small bulletin announcement, suggests to me that a great spiritual hunger exists.

I tend to think that this is the key. People that show up for prayer, like those who typically show up for Bible study or parish “missions,” tend to be people on a journey, with the hunger you suggest. I would find it hard to imagine that average “pew potatoes” show up for something like that.

While I’m not going to suggest that it is the “best” form of prayer for any individual, I cannot imagine that it would be damaging to a truly prayerful person who was being adequately instructed in a proper form and forum.

Peace,

 

[buzzcut]

“pew potatoes”

“Ok … before we get started … are there any pew potatoes here? Coz if there are, we don’t want you in our workshop!”

 

[DBT]

Hi Buzz -

I’m glad you found my post “amusing” But I do see you understand what I’m trying to say in my round about way.

buzzcut:

Your point, though, is different. What you are saying, if understand you correctly, is simply that the monks were unwise to even discuss this subject in a room full of dozens of strangers whose spiritual lives were unknown. And I can see your point there.

Yes, and the Doctors and Saints speak so frequently on the dangers of this kind of thing that I hardly know where to begin. And it’s precisely here (and not in the content itself) that I see the proponents of CP diverging rather dramatically from “The Cloud of Unknowing.” For anyone curious, just read the opening paragraph of “The Cloud” and compare his approach to what you say Fr. Keating did with his advertisement.

Buzzcut:

As you suggest, in 14th, 15th or 16th century, only well-qualified religious would have received this kind of instruction.

An unfortunate downside for today given the modern call to universal contemplation since Vatican II.

buzzcut:

But on the other hand, things are different today. The very fact that an assistant pastor would ask the monks to give four talks about prayer, and the fact that 80 people responded to a small bulletin announcement, suggests to me that a great spiritual hunger exists. And given this hunger, especially among laypeople, where would the manpower be to sit down individually with each of those 80 people and talk with them on a one-on-one basis?

I don’t really think things are all that different today . . . the hunger has always been there . . . as have the limited teaching resources. Again just read the Saints.

The bottom-line is this: the Lord will call each individual to contemplation when and if He sees fit. And He will succeed despite our best efforts to somehow “manage” the process either by limiting access (as in the past) or making it more universal (as in the CP movement today).

Dave.

 

[DBT]

“Ok … before we get started … are there any pew potatoes here? Coz if there are, we don’t want you in our workshop!”
[/quote]

Well, there you go . . . that’s marketing and understanding your target audience . . . and you just made my point from post 41

 

[Love_the_Church]

Hi, This is not a heavy imput just an experience I had. I live in MI and visit the StCyril & St. Methodis Church in Sterling hgts. as often as possible. Very wonderful and faithful to the Church teachings. Anyway, one time when I was leaving I noticed a brochure announcing Thomas Keating was coming to a nearby area and it was encouraging people to attend. This was very unusual material to be out in a church such as this one is. I contacted Fr. Ben and mentioned the material to him thinking perhaps he was not aware it was out in his church. This proved to be the case, he, Fr. Ben, immediately requested all the phamplets be thrown away! No, centering prayer is not to be practiced in the Roman Catholic Church. Thanks for letting me put in my two cents, Blessings to all.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I think there is somewhat of a “division” between the monks and the parish priests. Also I think a lot of parish priests find him annoying because he sends them things asking for financial donations. At least when I asked one priest about Keating, his first reaction was, “oh, yes. I get many requests for donations from him in the mail.” To me that’s one reason that, given a chance, diocesan priests and other active clergy might want to give him a dig.

Alan

 

[Augustine]

If there’s one thing that nags me about CP are its defenders trying to disqualify people who’ve had bad experiences with it or that some writers have no clue what they’re writing about CP. I’m no more culpable than anyone else, but do Keating’s books come with a soap box?

May God have mercy on us.

 

[mhansen]

Augustine:

If there’s one thing that nags me about CP are its defenders trying to disqualify people who’ve had bad experiences with it or that some writers have no clue what they’re writing about CP. I’m no more culpable than anyone else, but do Keating’s books come with a soap box?

May God have mercy on us.

Well, as we’ve seen from some posts in this thread, there are bad experiences from CP, and then there are bad experiences from what people THINK is CP. There are very few (if any) of the former, and a ton of the latter. There are clueless writers on both sides of the fence, my friend.

Mike

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Augustine:

If there’s one thing that nags me about CP are its defenders trying to disqualify people who’ve had bad experiences with it or that some writers have no clue what they’re writing about CP. I’m no more culpable than anyone else, but do Keating’s books come with a soap box?

May God have mercy on us.

Keating’s books don’t come with a soap box. You either use his ideas or not.

I’ve tried to get the rep from CO to make statements on this forum, and he says it is not our job to defend how we pray, but simply to pray.

The things I speak of are simply facts that I know because I have actual experience and a great number of hours listening to Keating. Therefore when these authors say things that are absurd, I am in a pretty good position to know it. I don’t question their theology, but they say things about CP and Keating’s teachings that simply are not true regardless of how many apologists and “big name” authors repeat them.

Laugh if you want. Here’s my challenge to you and any others. If I have made a single factual error about centering prayer in my posts above, then I wish to be corrected and even scorned right here publicly with the key word “gotcha” and even a :tsktsk: and I will think the most awful things of myself for having the pride to challenge the “popular” way of thinking and give you one of these: :bowdown:

Simply put, these people don’t know what they are talking about. That’s why I say they don’t know what they are talking about.

[edit] OK, so I can’t read their minds and maybe they do know what they are talking about; they just do not reflect that by making accurate statements in their published writings.

If correcting errors constitute being on a soapbox, then apologists are all soapbox dwellers.

I’m all about explaining, but I’m weary of going through pages of nonsense to explain it all – I’m a slow reader and it takes time I could be praying instead of reading ignorant bashing of my devotions. If you have any questions about CP then contact me here, by PM, or go to the horse’s mouth.

Alan

 

[Love_the_Church]

Hi, I would like to add one more thing. Pope Benedict does not want eastern practices included with Roman Catholic prayer practices, Blessings to all :nope:

 

[Joysong]

As frequently happens when people converse, usage of terminology and differences in one’s understanding of these words conveyed, gives incorrect ideas to the reader.

Alan wrote in post #22:

Even if not explictly, then contemplation can easily come from sitting quietly in front of the Eucharist in adoration, so I’m pretty open about the method so long as they’ve at least heard of silent prayer, and know that the CCC not only condones it, but says prayer “should” become unitive, and that contemplation is that unity. Other prayer forms are good, but they “should” lead to contemplation.

Originally Posted by CCC

2717 Contemplative prayer is silence, the "symbol of the world to come"or “silent love.” Words in this kind of prayer are not speeches; they are like kindling that feeds the fire of love. In this silence, unbearable to the “outer” man, the Father speaks to us his incarnate Word, who suffered, died, and rose; in this silence the Spirit of adoption enables us to share in the prayer of Jesus.

2718 Contemplative prayer is a union with the prayer of Christ insofar as it makes us participate in his mystery. The mystery of Christ is celebrated by the Church in the Eucharist, and the Holy Spirit makes it come alive in contemplative prayer so that our charity will manifest it in our acts.

What the CCC does not expound is the full meaning of contemplation. There is an “acquired” contemplation that is within man’s efforts, but man is the primary initiator of the prayer. This would be the concept of CP. Of course, this desirable to strive for, but it develops in an orderly manner according to one’s stage of growth in prayer, and should not be attempted by a novice.

Why not? Because the whole foundation is built upon love - pure love of God, flowing to love of neighbor. Love does not form solely through a simple concentration on a “sacred word” or mantra in our prayer time. No, there is more required through spiritual disciplines and meditation. Whom does Jesus say He will manifest Himself to? Those who love Him, and keep His commandments. (Jn. 14:21-23) The entire edifice must be built on love, and this will produce union with God and His holy will, with or without contemplation.

There may come a time of manifestation for those who prepare themselves in this way, but it is God who is initiates the form of contemplation we refer to as “infused,” since God infuses the gift passively without man’s efforts. One higher form of this infused contemplation sometimes is referred to by St. Teresa as the Prayer of Union. That is where confusion arises in some of our understandings, as though we can achieve “union with God” with “acquired” contemplation, and should therefore strive to attain to it, in line with what Alan noted from the CCC.

Not entirely so, and one needs only to read St. Teresa’s comments in the Interior Castle, (and elsewhere), Chapter V:3:12. “I see, Sisters, that if we fail in love of neighbor we are lost. May it please the Lord that this will never be so; for if you do not fail, I tell you that you shall receive from His Majesty the union that was mentioned. When you see yourselves lacking in this love, even though you have devotion and gratifying experiences that make you think you have reached this stage, and you experience some little suspension in the prayer of quiet, believe me you have not reached union.”

And again in Way of Perfection, Ch. 17:2, she writes: “So not because all in this house practice prayer must all be contemplatives; that’s impossible. And it would be very distressing for the one who isn’t a contemplative if she didn’t understand the truth that to be a contemplative is a gift from God.”

To summarize, one can achieve true union with God through holiness, love of God and neighbor, and yet not be a contemplative. One can practice perfect vocal prayer and achieve this union, as St. Teresa explains in the Way of Perfection.

 

[buzzcut]

Hi, Joysong, good to have you with us again for yet another discussion of “our favorite subject”

I appreciated very much that your post gives us references to the works of our beloved St T, and I always learn something when I come across posts like yours. But some of your statements about CP aren’t supported by similar references to Fr Keating’s books. This is where we have the danger of discussing a misconception of CP rather than CP as it actually is. The entire text of OMOH is now online if you don’t want to buy or borrow the book:

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Joysong:

As frequently happens when people converse, usage of terminology and differences in one’s understanding of these words conveyed, gives incorrect ideas to the reader.

That is a good observation. Since mystical practices are generally not well known among active Catholics, there is a whole vocabulary that goes with it that doesn’t make sense so it’s very difficult to convey.

It’s kind of like why Jesus told parables, I suspect. There was no way, using their language and culture, to accurately explain what he really meant, so he used parables to condition them so that His Father through the Spirit could reveal the underlying truths to them in time.
What the CCC does not expound is the full meaning of contemplation. There is an “acquired” contemplation that is within man’s efforts, but man is the primary initiator of the prayer. This would be the concept of CP. Of course, this desirable to strive for, but it develops in an orderly manner according to one’s stage of growth in prayer, and should not be attempted by a novice.

Now I see how tricky words can be, as you’ve pointed out.

When we do “centering prayer” that is not the same thing as saying we do “contemplative prayer.”

Contemplative prayer, for us, is a gift from God, that we can neither initiate nor control. Centering prayer is a practice by which we attempt to clear our mind of distractions, so as to invite contemplation. I’m not familiar with this “self-initiated” contemplation that you mention, but if you have more information on it, I’m interested in hearing more about it. (sigh. I wish I still had an SD I could ask about these things.)

Why not? Because the whole foundation is built upon love - pure love of God, flowing to love of neighbor. Love does not form solely through a simple concentration on a “sacred word” or mantra in our prayer time. No, there is more required through spiritual disciplines and meditation. Whom does Jesus say He will manifest Himself to? Those who love Him, and keep His commandments. (Jn. 14:21-23) The entire edifice must be built on love, and this will produce union with God and His holy will, with or without contemplation.

It is a very subtle distinction, but true CP does not advocate “concentrating” on a sacred word. The sacred word is used as a tool to signal our willingness NOT to be concentrating on anything, including the sacred word.

shifting gears

I’m getting pretty discouraged about CP and arguing it. I probably would have been better off doing what Dan said and just listen and don’t try to defend. That’s what Jesus did at one point; just let them make their accusations and no defense. I’m beginning to think I am giving CP a bad name by arguing about it, and that I am evidently trying to do the job the Holy Spirit is supposed to be doing, as if I can better him.

Truth be told, I’ve been to about one CP meeting in the last year or so and I don’t regularly practice it per se, although I do try to use what I’ve learned from it to quiet my mind. That must be why I’m so anxious about being like Joe Apologist for CP or something. If I’d listened to the leaders myself, I would not be posting anything here that is argumentative.

All I was trying to do is explain where I thought there were misconceptions. Maybe CP is evil. Maybe I’m evil. Maybe the world is evil. Gosh, maybe there are bishops who are evil. Judge as you wish, but I leave you with the warnings that you do so on facts.

I give up. I don’t do CP the way it’s recommended to be done anyway, so I’ll do my best to shut up about it. I need to go get a life. I wish I’d never written a pro-centering prayer word on this forum, which is clearly not fertile ground for such a discussion.

Am I right? Am I wrong? Should I continue to defend? God doesn’t need me to do so, because I rather suspect that I could be killed today and the Church would continue to exist without me. I just do whatever I do, for whatever motives I want to think I do them.

At this point in my life, I’m sick of “being on” a spiritual journey. I care so little for my life except as gratitude and to appreciate beauty as the Lord reveals His goodness in His Grand Opera. (btw, “opera” is plural of “opus” which means “work”)

My psychiatrist has been trying to get me to quit spending so much time on religious activities. I think I’ll try to listen to my own authorities better. You may disregard anything I have written as relevant only for whatever you make of it.

Oh, and in case anybody was about to prove me wrong, I’ll go ahead and make good on my deal. I’m currently thinking bad things about myself, and here is this: :bowdown:

Bye for now. I’m going to go try to have a life today outside CAF.

Alan

 

[Joysong]

Hi Alan,

I’m always delighted to explore this with you, and I know you are one who has truly benefited and can offer a lot of good help to us, as you so often do. True, the terminology thing has everyone in mental disarray, I believe, as people have formed their own conceptions of the words used.

Alan:

Contemplative prayer, for us, is a gift from God, that we can neither initiate nor control. Centering prayer is a practice by which we attempt to clear our mind of distractions, so as to invite contemplation. I’m not familiar with this “self-initiated” contemplation that you mention, but if you have more information on it, I’m interested in hearing more about it. (sigh. I wish I still had an SD I could ask about these things.)

True contemplation wherein God infuses loving attention to Himself, accompanied sometimes by bodily inebriation and later on, suspension of the mental faculties, is definitely a gift from God. How the CCC is translating this is very unclear.

But there is another type, which I have learned to name “acquired,” where we ourselves “practice the presence of God,” as did Brother Lawrence. In his book of the same name, he describes how he acquired the practice himself, and how useful it had become for him to give his entire day to God. You will see this referred to by these names in many spiritual books: a) prayer of simplicity; b) affective prayer; c) prayer of recollection. It is an outgrowth of spending much time in prayer and meditation, and the person easily, readily, lovingly glances toward God without any concept or thought — just a wordless aspiration of the heart. My confessor taught me just to use simple ejaculations when I faced this difficulty of wanting to pray often during the day, but was unable to use vocal prayers as we know them. One becomes simple in their love for God, much more expressionless with merely a lift of the heart toward Him.

Isn’t that what CP is? Centering our mind and heart with love on God, without words or thoughts? Normally, a beginner is not quite ready to do this as a regular daily practice without the preliminary growth in learning to love Our God through the channels His grace has set up for us. That has been my main objection, because without LOVE, any practice we attempt on our own has little merit in His eyes. He is captivated by our love.

I agree with you that while we are in our own practice of “acquired contemplation,” God may grant “infused contemplation” where the soul receives so much more. No doubt you also read in St. Teresa’s works, that He may grant these loving touches while we are working and not even thinking about Him, and He can do this while a person is in ordinary “vocal prayer,” but lovingly focusing on pleasing Him. That is why she insists that vocal prayers be from the heart and prayed well.

One can also arrive at Union with God, and have moments of infused contemplation, purely as His gift, and yet not be a “contemplative.” The Cloud of Unknowing is very good about differentiating who may be receiving a call to this type of prayer life, and unless we are sure of God’s leading, the author hopes we avoid his instructions.

Please don’t feel discouraged, Alan - you are a very sincere and godly man in whom I see much love for God. Somehow, those whom God intends to lead on the path you know so well, will find their way, and God will clear up the fog of misunderstanding so that the truth will be manifest.

Carole

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Joysong:

Please don’t feel discouraged, Alan - you are a very sincere and godly man in whom I see much love for God. Somehow, those whom God intends to lead on the path you know so well, will find their way, and God will clear up the fog of misunderstanding so that the truth will be manifest.

Your words are very kind. I don’t even really know what we’re talking about so I hope you don’t mind if I fail to fully concentrate on your post as my widdle bwain takes a rest.

I am not discouraged in the way most people think of it, but nor was I “acting” before. Discouraged, frustrated, but then in an instant something tells me, “it’s all for good. Trust.”

This morning I had a particularly moving experience that so brought back so many terrible things I just sat and played “St Francis Prayer” right through Communion, until the cantor was ready to sing what I had picked for today, “Where Charity and Love Prevail.” I wasn’t excommunicating myself; I just was not able to move from my chair as if I weighed a ton. (OK no comments from those who saw my photo. :tsktsk: ) Besides, I made it to Communion yesterday. By the end of Mass I became quite disturbed over some things that had happened during Mass, and it brought back everything wrong I’ve been through.

Whenever I get rid of a bad attitude, I am certain I have felt what Jesus says about cleaning house only to find seven more sinister (and might I add the observation “often more subtle”) ones take their place.

Then I get on here and it’s back to CP issues; I wish so much I could do a mind meld with other people, and I place so much pride in my words that it hurts my false self when they don’t seem like they’re heard.

Yesterday a lot of bizarre things happened too. Some guy came up to me in the parking lot yesterday and gave me a big, nice briefcase that just barely held all my music. Said it was a “late” Christmas present, and he wanted me to know how much he liked my music. He never introduced himself. The people at St. Anthony are marvelous. I am not a member, but they make me feel incredibly welcome and appreciated.

I suspect I’m OK, you’re OK.

Alan

 

[DBT]

Joysong:

Please don’t feel discouraged, Alan - you are a very sincere and godly man in whom I see much love for God.
Carole

Hi Alan -

I’d like to echo Carole’s comment. I’ve learned much from you over the past year and I truely appreciate your passion for all of this.

So keep your head up, try not to get discouraged and “enjoy your day off from CAF.”

Your friend,
Dave.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

DBT:

Hi Alan -

I’d like to echo Carole’s comment. I’ve learned much from you over the past year and I truely appreciate your passion for all of this.

So keep your head up, try not to get discouraged and “enjoy your day off from CAF.”

Your friend,
Dave.

Thank you for your kind words as well. Every now and then I guess I have to throw a tantrum so people will remind me that I am welcome. “Being like a child” is great when it comes to being judgmental, but when it comes to being hypersensitive it doesn’t seem so fun anymore sometimes.

There have been probably more than a dozen events in the last week or two that have shaped me quite a bit, coming from all different directions. It is so amazing I cannot tell you words for it. All I know is that I’m on some kind of ride that I’m not controlling, but that my actions do affect – though not always in predictable ways.

As you can tell, my “day” length is kind of “relative” just as God’s – hey, I mean He reserves himself a 365,000 to one ratio on how long a day is, so I figure I’m within tolerance by only staying off 20 minutes or so. Then of course I get back on and some dude’s ranting about how nobody takes mystical experiences seriously or something so I went off on that.

Gosh. Sometimes it scares me that people read the stuff I type. It’s like, gosh all I do is look around, find the lowest common denominator, and speak as if I’m that scumbag. It’s like, I don’t care if somebody’s guilty.

Two days ago I found out how not-ready-for-prime-time I really am. People tell me that I seem so normal to them, they don’t know why I don’t get a job. I even got into the second fight, ever, with my FIL last Sunday, who IMO is questioning whether his daughter is in Good Hands – because I’m letting the people rebuilding my house “walk all over me.” This is the guy who treated me with respect.

Then a day or two ago I got this incredible email from another poster with some stuff that changed my life in such a glorious way that later that day I had probably my first “hurt” from my wife and son in over a year. It was just like the reading about how we must hate our wife and stuff. It’s all happening so fast. Last week my daughter asked me if I was feeling OK, and I just said, “you know about when a demon leaves and brings seven more back” and then gave her “thumbs up” that everything is OK, and she did back. She knew exactly that I was OK.

Oh yeah back to the not-ready-for-prime-time story. I let a convenience store clerk rip me off for almost two bucks. When I was surprised the total was over $10, since I know enough math to know it was weird, I asked what price she had charged me for one item, and she gave me a price that was wrong. It was some antifreeze clearly marked 6.93 and no confusion or wrong signs, but she charged 8.63 or something. I said, “are you sure? That’s not what I remember from the shelf.” She said, “Yes, sir. That’ll be 10.35 please” or whatever it was.

Here’s a classic lesson now in “passive-aggressive” which was the only real anomaly extensive psychological testing I took found that the dude suggested I should work on (and I did) that was back years, and I passed gloriously because the FAA gave me my medical certificate back and I could fly again. Not now, but oh well I’m getting used to having my wings clipped.

Gosh I’m running on but anyway I was so angry at her confidence and the fact she didn’t even make a move to double check, that I simply took her crime by looking confused myself, and saying, “oh, well, ok” and dug into my pocket and paid the extra money. I did not raise my voice, ask her to double check or for the manager, or nothing. Then I left my product on the counter, walked over and looked at the shelf to verify that yes, I was right and she was wrong, and came back to pick it up again as she said, “thank you please come back soon.” Since I was obviously double checking the price as an example to her, I was hoping she would maybe learn something and try to redeem herself by saying, “was that price OK?” like anybody with a brain working in customer service would have done at least. No, just a cheerful sendoff as I gathered my things and left.

And half way across the parking lot I thought, “I’m wish to steal enough stuff from this store to make up for it.”

In case anybody wondered, that’s passive-aggressive.

Alan

 

[DBT]

Joysong:

But there is another type, which I have learned to name “acquired,” where we ourselves “practice the presence of God,” as did Brother Lawrence. In his book of the same name, he describes how he acquired the practice himself, and how useful it had become for him to give his entire day to God. You will see this referred to by these names in many spiritual books: a) prayer of simplicity; b) affective prayer; c) prayer of recollection. It is an outgrowth of spending much time in prayer and meditation, and the person easily, readily, lovingly glances toward God without any concept or thought — just a wordless aspiration of the heart.

Isn’t that what CP is? Centering our mind and heart with love on God, without words or thoughts? Normally, a beginner is not quite ready to do this as a regular daily practice without the preliminary growth in learning to love Our God through the channels His grace has set up for us. That has been my main objection, ** because without LOVE, any practice we attempt on our own has little merit in His eyes**. He is captivated by our love.

I agree with you that while we are in our own practice of “acquired contemplation,” God may grant “infused contemplation” where the soul receives so much more.

I really enjoyed how you tied all of this together Yes, “acquired” contemplation, rather than “infused” contemplation, is where the common ground in discussions of CP is to be found.

Dave. (aka Lawrence of the Blessed Sacrament as of last Sunday )