Centering Prayer is dangerous!

[AlanFromWichita]

ncjohn:

I don’t have the book here, so I can’t verify the context of the middle statement, but if it’s just meant to imply that the process is a matter of being willing to “unload our baggage” and rest in His presence, I would agree wholeheartedly. The “no effort” part is true to the extent that it’s a response to the calling rather than an initiative on our part, with the only “effort” being the willingness to not reject that calling and actually make the time to spend in that “rest.” Of course that is true of all of our actions since we’re always called to the right thing but have to choose to respond.

The book is here.

Here is a little more context:

 The sacred word is not a vehicle or means to go from the surface of the river to the depths. It is rather a condition for going there. If I hold a ball in my hand and let go, it will fall to the floor; I don't have to throw it.

  In similar fashion, the sacred word is a way of letting go of all thoughts. This makes it possible for our spiritual faculties, which are attracted to interior silence, to move spontaneously in that direction. Such a movement does not require effort. It only requires the willingness to let go of our ordinary preoccupations.

I also perked up a bit when I read the part about not requiring effort, but I’m glad you asked about it because now it gives me a better reason to go look it up than my own curiosity alone.

Given the above context, I think the “non-effort” does apply to the natural movement that takes place once one does act upon his willingness to let go. When I get into the car, drive to a CP meeting, and sit quietly with others, that whole process does take effort. When one has an active life, making a few minutes for the Lord can take effort. The inner movement toward God does not, though, which is what this seems to refer to if I’m reading it right.

I’m not sure whether that’s the same distinction you were making, so I won’t offer a conclusion on your behalf.

Alan

 

[AlanFromWichita]

DBT:

I guess my stumbling block in drawing the same conclusion you did is in the “application” of these two methods of recollection seem to me to be different. You know, CPs approach of sitting down for your 20 minutes a day vs. Brother Lawrence’s “holy habit” that, in the ideal world, is with you each and every moment of the day.

I do not know of Brother Lawrence, which is why I’m delighted to see others helping tie things together.

It may seem silly that I do not regularly practice CP even though I defend it and claimed it did me great good. Part of the reason is that I think I’ve gained so much from it, along with the teachings on the spiritual journey, that I find myself able to “achieve inner silence” at times when I am actually active.

This seems contrary to centering prayer, since I am not devoting the recommended “dosage” of CP of time. At the same time, so much of my emotional false self – the one that drove me nuts – has been driven away that I find myself able to achieve “inner silence” in a way even while active.

I know that sound really strange, but my mind used to race like mad almost all the time, especially when I was in the presence of contention. Now I can be driving a car, and listening to my kids argue about something, and STILL not feel the “stirrings” of the false self, allowing me to be completely at peace. Trust me, arguments within my own family members have been top priority, and to be able to sit in peace while it is going on is something quite new to me, though it’s really just an extension of what I started when I first started CP.

Just to follow up on that example, whether I need to and if so precisely how to deal with the kids arguing now becomes a decision I make in complete peace, with no pressure at all from any autonomic emotional response that drives me to anxiety.

There is hardly ever any arguing in our house anymore, though a couple years ago there was a lot. Our home has become quite a haven for troubles, as we are very supportive of each other. The kids help each other wonderfully. My whole house has achieved “inner silence” in a way, and keeps it even when the kids are enthusiastically singing and dancing.

I might be abusing the term “inner silence” here compared to Keating’s definition. I’m using it as an abstraction to mean that I like see everything the world offers in wonder and don’t get all anxious hardly ever. Those things I do get anxious about still, are much stupider and more trivial than the things I’d get anxious about a few months or years ago. I figure it must be like the demons; you get rid of them and seven more sinister ones (IMO more subtle) come in and take their place. Therefore I still have my moments, and my wife even caught me “depressing” for a few minutes earlier today when we were at our kids’ school.

About “depressing”: We took our SD’s lead and say “we are depressing” rather than “we are depressed” when we are miserable. To us, that means that “depressed” is not a name for us, nor is it a condition that we are helpless to. (If we were helpless to it, then Christ could not have commanded us not to worry, etc.) When we say “depressing” we are acknowledging that what we are doing is actually a process, and can take responsibility for our own emotions.

After all, how can we speak to those emotions that trouble us with any authority, if we’re not willing to take any responsibility? I’m way off topic here, so just take it as a tangent for anybody to whom it made sense.

Alan

 

[Joysong]

Hi Alan,

Nice post! :dancing:

Carole

 

[DBT]

AlanFromWichita:

I do not know of Brother Lawrence, which is why I’m delighted to see others helping tie things together.

AND

I find myself able to “achieve inner silence” at times when I am actually active.

Hi Alan -

Well you might not “know” Brother Lawrence but maybe you “understand” him better than you think

I always look forward to what you have to say . . .

Dave.

 

[Joysong]

I spoke with Buzzcut a few posts ago about the difficulty St. Teresa had with recollection, and how much she urged her Sisters to stay with the practice of trying to acquire it.

We have also spoken about this beautiful practice of recollection which was Brother Lawrence’s whole devotion in his life. I took the liberty to find a portion in the on-line classic that might speak to some of us.

He, too, mentions the difficulty in achieving this, but there is so great a benefit after it becomes part and parcel of us — far more than just doing “centering prayer” — that I am giving the link in case others would like to follow up.

ccel.org/ccel/lawrence/practice.iv.i.html

Having found in many books different methods of going to GOD, and diverse practices of the spiritual life, I thought this would serve rather to puzzle me, than facilitate what I sought after, **which was nothing but how to become wholly GOD’s. **

This made me resolve to give the all for the All: so after having given myself wholly to GOD, to make all the satisfaction I could for my sins, I renounced, for the love of Him, everything that was not He; and I began to live as if there was none but He and I in the world. Sometimes I considered myself before Him as a poor criminal at the feet of his judge; at other times I beheld Him in my heart as my FATHER, as my GOD:

I worshipped Him the oftenest that I could, keeping my mind in His holy Presence, and recalling it as often as I found it wandered from Him. I found no small pain in this exercise, and yet I continued it, notwithstanding all the difficulties that occurred, without troubling or disquieting myself when my mind had wandered involuntarily. I made this my business, as much all the day long as at the appointed times of prayer; for at all times, every hour, every minute, even in the height of my business, I drove away from my mind everything that was capable of interrupting my thought of GOD.

Kindly note, as well, the preparation he made in making satisfaction for his sins, and renouncing everything that was not according to God’s will.

Carole

 

[ncjohn]

Joysong:

" I made this my business, as much all the day long as at the appointed times of prayer; for at all times, every hour, every minute, even in the height of my business, I drove away from my mind everything that was capable of interrupting my thought of GOD."

Carole

Hi Joysong,

That is a beautiful passage and truly points in the direction we should all be trying to move. I think the problem is that few of us are in a state in our lives where we perceive ourselves to have that luxury. I don’t know much about Brother Lawrence, but I assume that he was in some type of setting, like the “sisters” that allowed for a much greater dedication of his time to God that most of us have naturally available in the over-stimulated lives we pursue. I work hard to set aside times during the day for prayer, but the reality is that in my normal life of work, family life, watching grandchildren, etc, God is not on my mind every minute although I try to make my life my prayer.

I think that is one of the good things about CP. It creates a discipline in someone like me to set aside blocks of time to focus on nothing more than resting in God. I look at it as part of a progression toward conciously making my whole life a prayer and actually reaching a point where I am present to God in every thought and action. For a simple male like me who has a hard time “walking and chewing gum” at the same time, that sort of discipline is critical in building a mindset that will move me along naturally to where I want to be.

It’s really no different to me in concept than physical exercise. I reached a point where I realized I needed to keep myself in some kind of shape and started running. I had to force myself to do it on a regular schedule in the beginning until it became just part of my lifestyle. Now I don’t think about it at all, I just go do it because it’s part of who I am. I use CP in much the same way, to make my attention to God part of who I am.

Peace,

 

[DBT]

ncjohn:

Hi Joysong,
That is a beautiful passage and truly points in the direction we should all be trying to move. I think the problem is that few of us are in a state in our lives where we perceive ourselves to have that luxury. I don’t know much about Brother Lawrence, but I assume that he was in some type of setting, like the “sisters” that allowed for a much greater dedication of his time to God that most of us have naturally available in the over-stimulated lives we pursue. I work hard to set aside times during the day for prayer, but the reality is that in my normal life of work, family life, watching grandchildren, etc, God is not on my mind every minute although I try to make my life my prayer.

Peace,

I’ll jump in here, if you don’t mind , for I understand what you’re saying . . . as would Brother Lawrence. It was his belief that everyone should practice this holy habit . . . regardless of our circumstances.

Let me state a “hypothetical” example of how this might work in the “real world.”

Let’s say a businessman is at work typing a memo for his co-workers. During this time his mind is naturally on this duty, as it should be. Nevertheless, he can “depart” for even the briefest of moments for a quiet, wordless communion with God . . . a simple inward “smile” if you will. Perhaps he might do this several times during the course of writing this memo. His work is in the forefront . . . God is in the background, but always with him.

Then, he glances at his watch and notices it’s time for a meeting. He leaves his computer and starts walking down the hall to the conference room. During this time, he brings God to the forefront as he momentarily leaves the cares of the world and resumes his communion with God. And as Brother Lawrence would say, no one would even know. He might simply turn his back on thoughts of work during that walk down the hallway, and quietly recollect himself in God. Perhaps he might speak a few words or simply continue with the internal gaze. And yes, it might even take the form of the sacred word as taught in CP. All this time he is in very deep prayer while he quietly smiles at those he passess in the hallway.

Then when he gets to the conference room, he says goodbye to God for the time being and resumes his attention on his work . . . yet he knows he will return to Him from time to time . . . even during the meeting.

So as Carol says, this practices is “acquired” through our own effort. And as Brother Lawrence says, it will be very difficult at first yet become almost as second nature with practice and perseverence.

In time, these commuions might happen hundreds of times a day . . . while at work, doing the dishes, playing with the kids . . . and yes even during mass. There is this natural ebb and flow or waxing and waning in all of this.

So in some ways what he teaches is like CP, for both in their own ways are Prayers of Recollection. The difference, as I see it, is that CP is meant for “formal” times of prayer (i.e the 20 minutes a day) where Brother Lawrence saw no difference between work and prayer . . . they are one and the same.

Hope that makes some sense . . .

Dave.

 

[brotherkevinosa]

WOW!! This topic has generated a lot of discussion. That in an of itself is a blessing. If we do not reflect frequently on our prayer life then we can tend to get rote and meaningless. This is true in meditation, contemplation, cp, the rosary etc…

I was not aware of the dangers of CP until reading this artcle, though I have read Pennington, Keating, and various articles. I have found that Br. Lawrence is more to my liking and ability. This along with the Jesus prayer.

It is all about the focus.

 

[ncjohn]

DBT:

I’ll jump in here, if you don’t mind , for I understand what you’re saying . . . as would Brother Lawrence. It was his belief that everyone should practice this holy habit . . . regardless of our circumstances.

Let me state a “hypothetical” example of how this might work in the “real world.”

Let’s say a businessman is at work typing a memo for his co-workers. During this time his mind is naturally on this duty, as it should be. Nevertheless, he can “depart” for even the briefest of moments for a quiet, wordless communion with God . . . a simple inward “smile” if you will. Perhaps he might do this several times during the course of writing this memo. His work is in the forefront . . . God is in the background, but always with him.

Then, he glances at his watch and notices it’s time for a meeting. He leaves his computer and starts walking down the hall to the conference room. During this time, he brings God to the forefront as he momentarily leaves the cares of the world and resumes his communion with God. And as Brother Lawrence would say, no one would even know. He might simply turn his back on thoughts of work during that walk down the hallway, and quietly recollect himself in God. Perhaps he might speak a few words or simply continue with the internal gaze. And yes, it might even take the form of the sacred word as taught in CP. All this time he is in very deep prayer while he quietly smiles at those he passess in the hallway.

Then when he gets to the conference room, he says goodbye to God for the time being and resumes his attention on his work . . . yet he knows he will return to Him from time to time . . . even during the meeting.

So as Carol says, this practices is “acquired” through our own effort. And as Brother Lawrence says, it will be very difficult at first yet become almost as second nature with practice and perseverence.

In time, these commuions might happen hundreds of times a day . . . while at work, doing the dishes, playing with the kids . . . and yes even during mass. There is this natural ebb and flow or waxing and waning in all of this.

So in some ways what he teaches is like CP, for both in their own ways are Prayers of Recollection. The difference, as I see it, is that CP is meant for “formal” times of prayer (i.e the 20 minutes a day) where Brother Lawrence saw no difference between work and prayer . . . they are one and the same.

Hope that makes some sense . . .

Dave.

Yup, I think we’re saying the same thing. To get to that state though where that becomes natural for you, you first have to create a new habit. If praying during the day, much less dropping into communion, has never been “normal” for you, something has to happen for it to become normal. CP to me is both that transition in creating the new habit, and a structure to help me maintain it, although I admit my formal CP is much more limited now. I often do exactly what you’re talking about now, just instinctively dropping into God’s presence at odd moments. That didn’t happen 5 years ago though.

Our minds are so wired into what we’ve always done and our little rituals and routines that we have to do something to break that programming. It’s like suddenly finding yourself at a weight way beyond where you wanted to be. You not only have to get on a diet to get back to the desirable weight, but if you want to be able to stay there you have to create a new eating/exercise lifestyle. Ideally the diet you go on is going to help do that and adjustments to it will be part of your new lifestyle for maintenance. Like dieting, if I find myself slipping in my normal “communion” I might step up my CP for a bit to get myself back on track.

A crude analogy admittedly, but maybe it fits.

 

[Paris_Blues]

WHAT??? I don’t understand!!! What on earth is centering prayer? How do we do that and what do we do to avoid it? I’m soooo confused!

 

[GoldenArrow]

Wow! What a good discussion! I haven’t had a chance to read all of it.

I think the problem lies in the fact of terminology, partly, and confusion as to where this prayer form originated: from Buddhists or from Early Catholic Monks. My book on Zen Meditation said “Centering Prayer,” and herein lies the confusion.

I’ve been confused for most of my life, so please forgive me. Heres a brief history of Golden Arrow’s “confusion:”

I am a Cradle Catholic but was raised and Atheist. With great encouragement from my Father, I renounced God and declared myself an Athest at the age of seven. I pledged to devote my life to the study of science, like my Dad. My Mother fell away from the Church after her divorce from Dad, so I had zero catechesis.

I then worked my way back into the church backwards (I’ll only bother you with my pre-Christian days).

At the age of 19, I was no longer an Athiest, but a Diest (a miracle convinced me that something was controlling everything). I decided that something existed I that couldn’t see, some higher power. I had no idea what it was though. I didn’t even consider Jesus. See, I believed that Jesus Christ was a mythical folk hero, no different than Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. I didn’t even believe he ever existed, and thought the Bible was fiction, similar to the books on Greek Mythology.

This idea of a higher power was reinforced when, in Biochemistry class at the age of 21, when I decided that the Calvin Cycle, Kreb’s Cycle, and DNA were blueprints created by this “Great Something.”

In grad school, at age of 23, I rented a room in a house with 3 other girls, who left on the weekends, leaving me alone. I would hear “things” in the house. I got scared one night, and I yelled, “In the name of God I command you spirits to leave here and never come back.” The “spirits” left and the house NEVER creaked again. I was amazed at the cessation of the creaking and at the words that made it stop! At the time, I thought, “Why did I say that?” I then wondered about this “God,” I had invoked. I thought this Great Something must be powerful!

Several years passed, and on my own, I developed my own theories of God, my own religion, which I even named after myself. HA! I had quite the ego! Oh, what an IDIOT I was!!!

My religion was based on science, my specialty. I believed that God and the Universe were the same. God was a HUGE entity and this entity had a body, and naturally his body was made up of blood vessels and cells. I theorized that all the planets were cells in the body of God and that Earth was a dying cell because it was infested with a virus called Humanity. I believed that Black holes were God’s macrophages, and that Suns were like mitochondria, producing energy. Light was like ATP. The Darkness of space was God’s interior flesh, his muscles. Worm holes, or Einstein Rosenbridges were like blood vessels or lymphatic vessels within God’s body. You get the idea! I had it all figured out! I declared myself a Genius and considered publishing my theory.

Then, I decided that before I publish my ingenious theory, I should look into the world’s religions first, to see what others thought.

One of the first religions I looked into was Buddhism. It was merely a random choice. This was when I encountered Zen. It was VERY early in my religious development, and actually, seeing the “bad side of the veil” really solidified my belief in an afterlife. It also made me decide in the belief of Heaven and Hell. I conceded that my theory on God being the Universe might be rubbish.

God used my bad experience to teach me that:

1. My previous theories on God were wrong.
2. That there are demons!
3. If there are demons, there must be angels.
4. Hell must exist.
5. Therefore, Heaven must exist!

I then searched for THE religion that believed in 1-5, for I considered my bad experience with Zen Meditation to be real.

And guess what … the only religions that fit this (that I knew of) are Judaism, Islam, and Christianity.

I looked into Judaism, briefly, and for some reason didn’t really embrace it … after all, I’m not Jewish! LOL!

After the Twin Towers attack, I crossed Islam off the list, deciding that such a religion could not be from God.

Slowly, I worked my way into connecting the idea of a Jewish Messiah with Jesus of Nazareth. I decided to learn abou this Jesus guy. I went “church shopping” in a variety of Catholic and protestant churches, and was finally converted after coming across the Fatima Prophecies.

I then returned to my Catholic roots, FULL CIRCLE!!!

This gives a more complete picture of how I came to dabble in Zen, so that maybe you understand me a little better and why I came to start this discussion.

 

[GoldenArrow]

Am I meant for Contemplation? I don’t know. I tried a variant of this contemplative prayer, Zen Meditation, WAY too early, before I was ready. I was totally taken off guard! I didn’t believe in Heaven or Hell at the time, you see.

I admit that maybe the CP of Zen may not be what Keating is promoting, and maybe the Sister that was doing CP was leaning too “eastern” for my comfort, and it scared me off. I’ll have to do more research on this.

I’ve not yet read Avila.
**
A couple questions: **

I’ve seen Jesus’s face in the Eucharist on several occasions. I posted my experience under the miracle thread somewhere on this board. If one sees Jesus’s face in the Eucharist for 20 minutes straight on several occasions while in an Adoration Chapel what Mansion is that?

I’ve also had a couple Interior Locutions: a couple were admonishments, some were short words of encouragement, like one sentence. Has happened about 5 times since I was converted by Fatima. What mansion is this?

I’ve also had other little “happenings.” Early one morning about 3 AM, I felt someone caressing my cheek. I was halfway awake, halfway asleep, in that state between awake and asleep. I live alone by the way, so it wasn’t a humanoid doing it, and it wasn’t my cats. It felt SO loving! Never felt so much love. I didn’t open my eyes. I just laid there and let this “hand of God?” caress my cheek. Only happened for a moment or two. What Mansion would this be?

OR are these separate experiences and not considered mansions?

Gosh, I REALLY want to read Avila, now!

Thanks for the very good discussion! I’ve learned a lot!

 

[GoldenArrow]

I’ve been confused for most of my life, so please forgive me. My history explains the circumstances of my Zen encounter. It has a purpose in my life:

I am a Cradle Catholic but was raised Atheist. With great encouragement from my Father, I renounced God and declared myself an Athest at the age of seven. I pledged to devote my life to the study of science, like my Dad. My Mother fell away from the Church after their divorce, so I had zero catechesis.

I then worked back into the church backwards (I’ll only bother you with my pre-Christian days).

At the age of 19, I was no longer an Athiest, but a Diest (a miracle convinced me that something was controlling everything). I decided there was a higher power I had no idea what it was. I didn’t even consider Jesus.

I believed that Jesus Christ was a mythical folk hero, no different than Santa Claus, or the Easter Bunny. I didn’t believe he ever existed, and thought the Bible was fiction, similar to the books on Greek Mythology.

This idea of a higher power was reinforced when, in Biochemistry class at the age of 21, I decided that the Calvin Cycle, Kreb’s Cycle, and DNA were blueprints created by a Great and Highly Intelligent Something. I now believed in a Higher Power that controlled everything, and that he was Intelligent. Only a Genius could create DNA!

In grad school, at age of 23, I rented a room in a house with 3 other girls, who all left on the weekends, leaving me alone. I would hear “things” in the house. I thought the place was haunted. I got scared one night, and I yelled, “In the name of God I command you spirits to leave here and never come back.” The “spirits” left and the house NEVER creaked again. I was amazed at the cessation of the creaking and at the words that made it stop! At the time, I thought, “Why did I say that?” I then wondered about this “God,” I had invoked. I thought this Great Something must be powerful! I also was confused … what were ghosts?

Several years passed, and on my own, I developed my own theories of God, my own religion, which I named, “The Blob Theory”

Blob Theory was based on science, my specialty. I believed that God and the Universe were the same. God was a HUGE BLOB that had a body, and naturally his body was made up of blood vessels and cells. All the planets were cells in the body of God and Earth was a dying cell because it was infested with a virus called Humanity. Black holes were God’s macrophages. Suns were like mitochondria, producing energy. Light was like ATP. The Darkness of space was God’s interior flesh, his muscles. Worm holes, or Einstein Rosenbridges were like blood vessels or lymphatic vessels within God’s body, transporting stuff around at fast speeds. You get the idea! I had it all figured out! I declared myself a Genius and considered publishing my theory.

I decided that before I publish my ingenious theory, I should look into the world’s religions first, for research.

One of the first religions I looked into was Buddhism. It was merely a random choice. The book on “Zen” was the thinnest paperback in the “Religion” section of Barnes and Noble.

This began my 2 week enounter with Buddhism and Zen. It was VERY early in my religious development. You know the rest of the story from my previous posts. Seeing the “bad side of the veil” really solidified my belief in an afterlife. It also made me decide in the belief of Heaven and Hell. I conceded that my theory on “God being the Universe” might be rubbish.

God used my bad experience to teach me that:

1. My previous theories on God were wrong.
2. That there are demons!
3. If there are demons, there must be angels.
4. Hell must exist.
5. Therefore, Heaven must exist!

I then searched for THE religion that believed in 1-5, for I considered my bad experience with Zen Meditation to be real. The only religions that fit these criteria (that I knew of) are Judaism, Islam, and Christianity.

I looked into Judaism, briefly, and for some reason didn’t really embrace it because I thought one had to be a Jew to practice Judaism.

After the Twin Towers attack, I crossed Islam off the list, deciding that such a religion could not be from God.

I worked my way into connecting the predicted Jewish Messiah with Jesus of Nazareth. I went “church shopping” in a variety of Catholic and protestant churches, and was finally converted after coming across the Fatima Prophecies.

I then returned to my Catholic roots, FULL CIRCLE!

 

[springbreeze]

Dear friends

This is probably very naive of me, but I see alot of people trying to solve by themsleves how to find union with God and seek His Presence by many methods and struggles, when I truly think it would be far better to dispose ourselves to trust in God and simply offer our hearts, minds and spirits to Him in love and trust in whatever state we are of soul and allow the Holy Spirit to lead us into prayer that is that intimate conversation and living relationship with God pervading all of our lives as well as times set aside for conversation with the Lord.

This is very simplistic I know and I am probably being very naive, but this is simply what I do and have found that God does not deny the heart that seeks Him sincerely in the simplicity of their hearts.

Intellectualisation of prayer is no bad thing, but no great understanding nor intellect is required for union with God, the widsom of union comes from humility and that only comes from complete love, submission of will and trust in God. It is He infact who does all things and it is oursleves that respond.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[DBT]

Hi Golden Arrow -

Yes there are very definate answers to your questions . . . probably more from St. John of the Cross.

Hopefully Carole will be around shortly as she no doubt is the best person around here to address all of this (not to minimize anyone else’s contribution, of course) . . .

Dave.

 

[GoldenArrow]

Yeah, I’d like to know what Carole would say.

Though I’m a novice, I have some advice to offer those who are new to trying the Unitive type prayer:

1. Before trying anything, first educate yourself by reading Avila, Sienna or St. John of the Cross.
2. Get a good spirtual director if you have access to one.
3. Ask lots of questions!
4. Be patient, and approach it with humility.
5. Also be aware that you may not be a Contemplative, so don’t get desperate if you just can’t do it.
6. Be aware that terms like “Centering Prayer” are used both in Eastern type Zen Meditation and in some forms of Catholic Contemplation. People here assert these things aren’t the same, but also, there appears to be a movement by some within the Church to overlap Eastern and Western styles of CP. If you do CP, make sure it is Western style. [You might also simply read about (not do) the Eastern style Zen CP/Meditation to know what NOT to do].

I still think that CP that attempts to mix Eastern Meditation with Western Contemplation may be dangerous. This is my opinion. I had a really scary experience with Zen CP. Just be careful you aren’t playing with fire.

I first became familiar with the term “Centering Prayer” from that Zen Meditation book I picked up a few years ago. This term was used in this booklet. To clear up the confusion, I wish the people who are doing “CP” Catholic Style, Avila style, would not use the term “Centering Prayer.”

If “CP” is, indeed, different from Zen CP, then please create a new word or term for this new thing because if they are as different as people here assert, they should not be referenced with the same term, Centering Prayer.

 

[GoldenArrow]

This is very simplistic I know and I am probably being very naive, but this is simply what I do and have found that God does not deny the heart that seeks Him sincerely in the simplicity of their hearts.

You hit the nail on the head Springbreeze. What you think is naivety is actually wisdom!

God Bless!

 

[ncjohn]

GoldenArrow:

If “CP” is, indeed, different from Zen CP, then please create a new word or term for this new thing because if they are as different as people here assert, they should not be referenced with the same term, Centering Prayer.

The advice you have given is certainly sound. Anyone wanting to approach contemplation from any direction, whether through centering prayer or something else, should be very aware of what they are doing, preferably, as you note, through a spiritual director.

As to changing the name, realistically the terminology has been around for so long and is in such common use that I can’t imagine it being changed.

Peace,

 

[mhansen]

GoldenArrow:

I first became familiar with the term “Centering Prayer” from that Zen Meditation book I picked up a few years ago. This term was used in this booklet. To clear up the confusion, I wish the people who are doing “CP” Catholic Style, Avila style, would not use the term “Centering Prayer.”

If “CP” is, indeed, different from Zen CP, then please create a new word or term for this new thing because if they are as different as people here assert, they should not be referenced with the same term, Centering Prayer.

I think the “Zen Meditation book” (I use that term loosely when referring to your book) you bought has created all of the confusion you have. The term Centering Prayer refers to just that - Centering Prayer. There is no hybrid version of “Zen Centering Prayer” that I’ve ever heard of, aside from that book you have.

Zen has been around for AT LEAST many centuries. Centering Prayer has not. Any true Zen practitioner would have no reason to bring Centering Prayer into a book on Zen. What’s the name of that book, by the way?

There’s also confusion here that there is an “Avila style of Centering Prayer.” There is not, so we should probably nip that in the bud while we’re here. I think this all boils down to the mixing and matching of terminology. By trying to explain one by comparing it to another, many well-intentioned people have created mass confusion. Oh well, that’s the trouble with words.

Mike

 

[DBT]

mhansen:

I think this all boils down to the mixing and matching of terminology. By trying to explain one by comparing it to another, many well-intentioned people have created mass confusion. Oh well, that’s the trouble with words.
Mike

Guess I’m not following this.

I think what has been going on on this thread is exactly what you say . . . “mixing and matching of terminology” . . . hopefully to find some kind of common ground that rarely exists on CP threads.

Yet if we’re not to “explain and compare” the terms how is the “mixing and matching” to occur?

For my own part, if I’ve added to the confusion then I apologize to all.

Dave.