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How do I know I can trust that website? I’d feel safer I had something from the Vatican or a Doctor of the Church.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
I know the article is at least a year old, but if Catholic Answers (this site) has an article on “The Dangers of Centering Prayer”, it seems that at least a year ago, there is felt to be some objection (and since the article references the same Trappist Father Thomas Keating whose work you link to, Jim, it seems that Catholic Answers has some deep reservations about HIS centering prayer). . .
catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-danger-of-centering-prayer
dated May 11, 2016
catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/the-danger-of-centering-prayer
dated May 11, 2016
Tis_Bearself
Patron
As someone who just wandered into this subject today, that Dreher article, which seems to have been reprinted on the web in several places, and is one of the first things that comes up if you google on “Catholic centering prayer”, has a weird, Tipper Gore kind of tone to it. It makes it sound like this form of prayer is a dangerous drug and you will end up turning into a zombie, worshipping Hindu deities or getting possessed by demons if you even try this form of prayer. I appreciate that the author may have meant well but speaking as a person who loves all the old traditional prayer forms and also has always had a healthy respect for other traditions’ prayer forms, his article protests so much it seems unconvincing and needlessly full of scare tactics.
I also don’t think the point of any form of prayer including this one is to seek God within yourself. I always thought of contemplative prayer as clearing your inner self out so God can enter in.
Granted I am not an expert on the matter, but these kinds of articles are not helpful and only serve to make me wonder what agenda the author has, to be so vehemently opposed to a form of prayer that I get the impression he himself doesn’t fully understand.
I also don’t think the point of any form of prayer including this one is to seek God within yourself. I always thought of contemplative prayer as clearing your inner self out so God can enter in.
Granted I am not an expert on the matter, but these kinds of articles are not helpful and only serve to make me wonder what agenda the author has, to be so vehemently opposed to a form of prayer that I get the impression he himself doesn’t fully understand.
po18guy
Well-known member
This was intended to be civil, but legitimate questions raised are answered with ad hominem and claims of fraud.
Consider a little advice from the “fraudulent”: The next time you want to broach a subject, please consider first defining the subject, clearly explaining its meaning and relevance, its Church history and posting any links to Church acceptance and/or approval of the exact practice you are advancing.
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on_the_hill
Guest
It seems to me that clearing one’s mind of distractions would be a proper preparation for any kind of prayer.
To calm one’s breathing, to relax one’s body, to clear away distracting thoughts seems like a requirement for any deep thinking.
Personally, I’m not capable of focusing on the mysteries of the Rosary if a dozen competing thoughts are bouncing off the walls of my cranium.
Maybe “Centering Prayer” is something other than what I understand it to be.
How about if we say that “centering” is o.k. and make the “prayer” part the part we’re concerned with?
To calm one’s breathing, to relax one’s body, to clear away distracting thoughts seems like a requirement for any deep thinking.
Personally, I’m not capable of focusing on the mysteries of the Rosary if a dozen competing thoughts are bouncing off the walls of my cranium.
Maybe “Centering Prayer” is something other than what I understand it to be.
How about if we say that “centering” is o.k. and make the “prayer” part the part we’re concerned with?
J
JimR-OCDS
Guest
The article has been proven false.
Fr. John D. Dreher, borders being fraudlent in that everything he says about how Centering Prayer came into being is not accurate.
Fr Keating and the others at St Joseph’s Abbey, did not see how people in Eastern Religion meditated and adopted those practices into Centering Prayer. This is false.
Instead, as Fr Keating himself has said, what they saw in Eastern Meditation, the Church already had a rich tradition of, in Contemplative Prayer.
Contemplative Prayer is what Centering Prayer is and it goes back to the 4th Century Mystics, but also St Francis of Assisi, St Teresa of Avila, St John of the Cross and many other Catholic mystics.
Fr. John D. Dreher, could’ve gone to St Joseph’s Abbey to speak with the monks there before writing his article, being his parish was only an hour away in Rhode Island, but never did. Instead, he made presumptions about Centering Prayer which don’t exist. Most likely he was going by what he learned about Centering in the New Age Movement.
Centering Prayer and New Age Centering are not the same.
Centering Prayer is Christ centered. It is being in the presence of God who dwells within and letting God be God, rather than creating an image of God.
It’s unfortunate that this forum has people who have no clue other than to use articles which fabricate what Centering Prayer is actually about.
I guess there’s no point in trying to present the truth, for there is a mental block against truth here.
God Bless
Jim
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Links have been provided.
But let me explain where the term “Centering Prayer,” comes from.
It was originally called, Prayer of Quiet, or Quiet Prayer.
Read here
On a week-end retreat for religious, after reading the works of St John of the Cross, on the Living Flame Of Love, St John spoke of going to the center so much, that people just started calling it, “Centering Prayer.” The term stuck until misleading articles were written about Centering Prayer, that people began to go back to the original term, “Quiet Prayer,” “Contemplative Prayer,” is more commonly used today.
As a Discalced Carmelite myself, when I read St Teresa’'s and St John of the Cross, I immediately identified with what they were saying, because I had the experience of Contemplative Prayer years before.
Thomas Merton’s latest book, “The Inner Experience,” explains much of what takes place, but also why it’s difficult for those without a inner experience to understand.
For me, it explains much about the rejection some have against Centering Prayer. It’s just sad that those few, have influenced so many more away from Contemplative Prayer.
Jim OCDS
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on_the_hill
Guest
I’m sticking with the guy who’s got street cred.
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on_the_hill
Guest
If people (Catholics) were more aware and had a better understanding of Centering Prayer, Contemplative Prayer, and such as mentioned in the New Advent article, I wonder if they’d be less inclined to seek “spirituality” outside of Catholicism and would find what they need within it.
Part of the draw of Eastern mysticism is clearly the exotic, the mysterious, the unknown, the unique. Part of the draw away from Western faiths, like Catholicism, is their reputation of being establishment, traditional, stodgy.
If they knew they could contemplate the mysteries of the Church from within the Church, they might realize, “This is not my father’s Oldsmobile!” (anyone remember that? It would’ve been a meme these days).
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
If the article has been proven false, I suggest you contact the providers at Catholic Answers and if they find that is the case, have them pull the article, with a retraction. If they don’t, well, then it kind of stands to reason that they (despite your claims) feel the article is true.
Catholic Answers is a very reliable site in its library, magazine, articles, etc. Are you saying that they have ‘no other clue’ than to use ‘fabricated articles?’ Because you know, you’re kind of implying that those of us who use this site to find information on topics are being given false information about the topic of Centering Prayer
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christofirst
Guest
The late Carmelite scholar Fr. Ernest Larkin, O.Carm., argued persuasively (for me, at least) that Centering Prayer* is *the prayer of several Doctors of the Church, including St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila. People are perhaps put off because those saints did not use the exact words “centering prayer,” but Fr. Larkin makes a convincing case that what they described as one aspect or way of prayer and what Fr. Keating describes as centering prayer are essentially the same
carmelnet.org/larkin/larkin014.pdf
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
on_the_hill
Centering Prayer was the result of Fr Keating hosting a week-end retreat with leaders of a local meditation center, to learn what it was about.
As soon as he and other monks saw what was involved, the knew immediately that the Church had a rich tradition of Contemplative Prayer involving Christian Meditation, going back to the 4th Century. Their goal was to bring the method of Contemplative Prayer to others. They not only taught lay people, but priests and nuns who had no knowledge or experience with Contemplation.
As Cardinal Ratzinger wrote, we do not reject what is true and wise in other religions, but in fact may use those things to improve our own Christian faith.
The difference as he wrote of course is that our faith is in Jesus Christ and our goal is union with Him.
Unfortunately, it was a banned topic in CAF for the past 15 years or so, and any discussion about Centering Prayer was met with hostility, as you still see by some of the post in this thread.
People confused New Age Centering with Centering Prayer.
It’s why many of the teachers like Fr Martin Laird, have chose to call it the original name, “Quiet Prayer.” Others have just started using the term, “Contemplative Prayer,” and that’s fine, as long as people understand that the method, isn’t contemplation.
Contemplation comes from God alone. We merely open ourselves up to God.
Jim
Actually, that was the reason why Pope Paul VI, back in the early 70’s asked the leaders of the various religious orders to begin dialogue with leaders Eastern traditions, to understand what was drawing young people away from the Church and into those religions.
Centering Prayer was the result of Fr Keating hosting a week-end retreat with leaders of a local meditation center, to learn what it was about.
As soon as he and other monks saw what was involved, the knew immediately that the Church had a rich tradition of Contemplative Prayer involving Christian Meditation, going back to the 4th Century. Their goal was to bring the method of Contemplative Prayer to others. They not only taught lay people, but priests and nuns who had no knowledge or experience with Contemplation.
Well, the draw may have to do with the fact that what is taught has a deep level of wisdom and is presented in a way that is contrary to being called sinners and doomed to hell if they didn’t convince God they were good enough. Of course it was a misunderstanding of what Christianity is about, but it’s the way it was seen by many young people who left the Church.
As Cardinal Ratzinger wrote, we do not reject what is true and wise in other religions, but in fact may use those things to improve our own Christian faith.
The difference as he wrote of course is that our faith is in Jesus Christ and our goal is union with Him.
Hence the purpose of threads like this.
Unfortunately, it was a banned topic in CAF for the past 15 years or so, and any discussion about Centering Prayer was met with hostility, as you still see by some of the post in this thread.
People confused New Age Centering with Centering Prayer.
It’s why many of the teachers like Fr Martin Laird, have chose to call it the original name, “Quiet Prayer.” Others have just started using the term, “Contemplative Prayer,” and that’s fine, as long as people understand that the method, isn’t contemplation.
Contemplation comes from God alone. We merely open ourselves up to God.
Jim
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
I did write to the administrators to take down the articles with false information about Centering Prayer. I was ignored. So, I then asked that the best approach would be to ban the topic of Centering Prayer, because more false information was being presented than the truth about it. They in fact banned Centering Prayer, but kept the negative articles about it, which I protested against.
Anyway, the article was challenged by a member in the Apologetics Forum a couple years ago, by a person who found that what Fr Dreher wrote was the opposite of what is taught by Fr Keating and what the actual experience is.
Fr Dreher responded by going off on a tangent which had to do with New Age and Eastern practice, which Centering Prayer has nothing to do with.
Not sure what happened to the thread as it seems this entire site has been cleaned up and more open than ever before.
Jim
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Robert_Sock
Guest
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Katherine438
Guest
Thank you so much for this link … I’ve been looking for a while for a clear and concise explanation of Centering Prayer … now I have it. Thank you.
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goout
Guest
I have an observation:
it seems to me the controversy does not surround the method of prayer. There are as many “styles” of prayer as personalities. If this prayer works for you, go for it.
But why all the oppositional noise on your part?
What raises people’s hackles is the sections I bolded above, which put different methods of prayer in opposition to one another. It assumes that one can read the souls and spiritual dispositions of those who do not pray like you.
And it assumes levels and integrity of prayer that are obtained based on externals. It assumes that certain people need to improve and deepen their level of prayer. It assumes that certain practices and certain types of knowledge constitute a deep communication with God. (gnosticism)
Those are not well founded assumptions, as one person cannot read the heart and mind of another and cannot know the mind of God and his ways in prayer with another.
It seems to me that deep conversations with God are not very noisy and don’t draw attention to themselves. And they need not be complex, as God is simplicity.
Hopefully each person can find a quiet peace with God in their prayer. Hopefully we can assume the best about each person’s relationship with God.
J
JimR-OCDS
Guest
You misunderstood, I did not disparage other forms of prayer but in fact stated that they should be continued, even by those doing Centering Prayer.
My other statements have to do with the many years in this forum where I see the same posts over and over, about not being able to stay focused during prayer.
About saying prayer by rote which eventually becomes a chore rather than a method of moving toward union with Christ.
Lastly, Centering Prayer was banned in this forum for years and even when it was not mentioned directly, I received PM’s telling me to stop promoting Centering Prayer.
This hasn’t been a welcoming forum, but I’m glad to see the candle has been lit for those who are seeking deeper levels of prayer. They can now be given this gift.
Jim
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goout
Guest
Have you considered that “they” might already have a deeply profound gift in prayer and you don’t know it?
Maybe “they” are lighting candles for you without your knowledge.
Not saying you haven’t, just asking the question, since the thread and your comments sort of begs it.
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fred_conty
Guest
What would you say in reply to the following page which warns against centering prayer? My intention is not to put anyone down, but just want to know the other side of what is being said addressing these arguments.I notice that Centering Prayer is no longer a banned topic at CAF.
Is this correct ?
If so, great !
Perhaps we can talk about what Centering Prayer really is, rather than what it really isn’t.
Please be civil!
Jim
newagedeception.com/new/free-resources/4-7-reasons-why-the-errors-in-the-centering-prayer-movement-should-not-be-in-your-parish.html
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jeannetherese
Guest
Spiritual dry spells happen, even to the great mystics and to Saint Teresa of Calcutta. Rote prayer may be used to press forward through these spells, one way of praying always. It may be helpful to consider that sometimes prayer may feel like a chore because of such a dry spell, or because Satan is sifting us and to persevere in rote prayer as a means of fighting through this.
May God bless all who visit our thread.
Amen.
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