CEO pay-to-minimum wage ratio soars

[vern_humphrey]

No, they made it worse. But all you are doing is setting a ratio! There is little government intervention involved. You are not TAXING big business, you are not setting a FINITE DOLLAR AMOUNT that will be OBSOLETE, You are setting a RATIO. With the ratio, the maximum CEO income is determined by the income of the lowest paid worker.

Riiiiight. And in Arkansas we thought if we just taxed the trucks a bit more, we’d come out ahead.

Let’s say we make the minimum ratio from highest paid worker to lowest paid worker 400 to 1 (this is HALF of 2005’s ratio). If a minimum ratio is set and you pay your lowest paid worker $5.00/hour - that would mean that the most the CEO could get of any company is $2000.00/hour or $4,000,000/year!

Let’s say we don’t do that – and give the power back to the shareholders to set compensation for corporate management.

Or, taking that same ratio, if a company wants to be cheap and pay someone who is willing to work for $2.50/hour the most that they could pay the top earner is $1000/hour or $2,000,000/year! THIS INCLUDES THEIR WORKERS IN CHINA, btw.

And then we stand on the dock and wave bye-bye while the whole company leaves the US and incorporates in another country.

With this scenario and with a much lower ratio, the market will truly work and actually be ethical.

Riiiiight – and while we’re at it, let’s put sugar in our gas tanks and emery in our crank cases to make our cars work better.

There would be no government setting wage restrictions that will have to be continually adjusted over and over. That is less government, actually. And the ratio does not have to be 11 to 1 like Japan’s it could decrease anually until we are at a tolerable ratio.

So what is wrong with setting this?

Other than driving more businesses overseas, losing more jobs in the US, and crippling our economy, you mean?

What is a lick on me exactly? I sold all my stock because I don’t want to micromanage a company.

That’s probably for the best.

I have a family and Church to be involved with. If that’s a lick on me then PUT MORE LICKS ON ME PLEASE!!!Setting a ratio is not setting compensation. If a CEO wants to be a tightwad, that will reflect in his salary. The company has total control of what they pay. The government only sets the ratio.

Right – and while we’re at it, let’s invent a pill that turns a tank of water into a tank of gasoline, a match that lights 2,000 times, and a perpetual motion machine.

You are the one that believes that people have time to fill out proxy forms and elections. You just made my point for me, thanks. How can stockholders realistically prevent CEO wages if they are given full control to set them?

The same way they used to do it – by majority stockholder vote.

They realistically won’t unless you get rid of Mutual Funds. Bill Gates could easily go to Mutual Fund Manager Bob and say: “If you buy my stock and give me a raise, I’ll buy your stock and give you a raise.”

Huh?

What stock does Mutual Fund Manager Bob have to sell?

With the baby boomers retiring, their is no chance in haedes that mutual funds will go away.

Why should they “go away?”

 

[griehle1]

And if it weren’t for Wal-Mart, they wouldn’t have a job. Nor could they afford to buy warm clothes for their children each fall.

I noticed that.

Pat yourself on the back, no one else will!!!

 

[vern_humphrey]

Pat yourself on the back, no one else will!!!

How can I do that when I’m rolling on the floor, laughing?

 

[rlg94086]

Let’s say we don’t do that – and give the power back to the shareholders to set compensation for corporate management.

 

[pprimeau1976]

Riiiiight. And in Arkansas we thought…

You know what thought did in Arkansas? It gave us Bill and Hillary Clinton.

 

[jman507]

I think the government needs to get involved, tax the rich and give to the lobbyist.

 

[vern_humphrey]

You know what thought did in Arkansas? It gave us Bill and Hillary Clinton.

My youngest works in New York City. We were visiting and took a tour. The tour guide asked, “Where are you folks from?”

“Arkansas.”

“Arkansas? That’s where Bill and Hillary come from, isn’t it? But we have them now.”

My wife and I wished him joy.

 

[pprimeau1976]

My youngest works in New York City. We were visiting and took a tour. The tour guide asked, “Where are you folks from?”

“Arkansas.”

“Arkansas? That’s where Bill and Hillary come from, isn’t it? But we have them now.”

My wife and I wished him joy.

It’s the south’s payback for all the carpet baggers after the civil war!

 

[vern_humphrey]

It’s the south’s payback for all the carpet baggers after the civil war!

Payback with interest.

If I were vindictive, I’d hope they’d do for New York what they did for Arkansas.

 

[manualman]

Vern, let me guess. You play golf with high level managers often!

It’s been awhile since the peak, but the takeover artists with whom you are so enamored are hardly so noble. I remember the tactic well: Buy up a coporation whose market cap was lower than the sum of its assets, break it up into smaller companies where a few were deliberately loaded with liabilities and predestinated to bankruptcy. Then all those pesky pensions and benefits can be legally reneged upon and the ‘artist’ pockets vast profits from the OTHER companies unshackled from their previous committments.

Maybe YOU consider that the good old days, but those of us who have family whose pensions were liquidated and retirement health care were disposed of in order to fatten the raider’s wallet are not so impressed.

I don’t claim to know the solution to this one as I too am skeptical of government control over compensation, but there is unquestionably an oligarchy forming in the US. Now that we no longer have boundless natural resources for just anyone to go and claim, the middle class is shrinking again. I look around in business and I see 10:1 the top dogs making the big deals CAME from a priviledged background. There are still “Pursuit of Happyness” stories out there, but it is not easy like it is when you are a scion.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Vern, let me guess. You play golf with high level managers often!

I don’t play golf, period.

But I know several highly successful businessmen and the course of my work has brought me into many large businesses as a consultant.

It’s been awhile since the peak, but the takeover artists with whom you are so enamored are hardly so noble.

Who says they’re noble?

I remember the tactic well: Buy up a coporation whose market cap was lower than the sum of its assets, break it up into smaller companies where a few were deliberately loaded with liabilities and predestinated to bankruptcy. Then all those pesky pensions and benefits can be legally reneged upon and the ‘artist’ pockets vast profits from the OTHER companies unshackled from their previous committments.

“The” tactic?

The business where I started when I retired from the Army went through several buy-outs – and we were the better for it.

Maybe YOU consider that the good old days, but those of us who have family whose pensions were liquidated and retirement health care were disposed of in order to fatten the raider’s wallet are not so impressed.

Which raider?

And how does this justify the high CEO pay-to-minimum wage?

I don’t claim to know the solution to this one as I too am skeptical of government control over compensation, but there is unquestionably an oligarchy forming in the US.

There has always been an oligarchy in the US. The current oligarchy is so powerful they can push for taxpayer-supported abortion and still call themselves Catholics – and the Bishops dare not oppose them.

Now that we no longer have boundless natural resources for just anyone to go and claim, the middle class is shrinking again.

You have cites for that?

I look around in business and I see 10:1 the top dogs making the big deals CAME from a priviledged background. There are still “Pursuit of Happyness” stories out there, but it is not easy like it is when you are a scion.

Funny how most millionaires are self-made men, though.

 

[pprimeau1976]

This thread was not to condemn the rich, only the concept that an 800:1 ratio is acceptable. There are several risks to this and admittedly, management could go overseas to deepen their pockets. Or, we could see the introduction of tons of holding companies that will separate Executive Managers in one company and common laborers in the other company.

I do see a VERY positive side to this though. On both sides of the political isles, if a politician raises the minimum wage, it can be viewed by some as a good thing. However, it doesn’t matter if you double the minimum wage to $10.00 if the cost of living, cost of goods, management salaries, doubles along with it.

With a set wage ratio you could, in theory set the minimum wage at $7.00/hr and then set an appropriate wage ratio. Once that’s in place, there will be no more need to set minimum wages anymore. The market will takeover with only this one restriction.

BTW, you can STILL restore salary control to the owners. I just don’t trust that owners will be that responsible. Also, what is this pay for performance stuff that I hear? I mean, shouldn’t a salary be enough these days?

Performance bonuses are like going to a store, buying a Maytag Washer, then paying Maytag extra if the washing machine washes your clothes right. Who the heck came up with that one?

 

[manualman]

1. Who says they’re noble? … The business where I started when I retired from the Army went through several buy-outs – and we were the better for it.
2. There has always been an oligarchy in the US. The current oligarchy is so powerful they can push for taxpayer-supported abortion and still call themselves Catholics – and the Bishops dare not oppose them.
3. You have cites for that?

1. You do. According to you, they provided a crucial service beneficial to all. I was young, I forget all the names… Icahn, Milken, etc…
2. Oh, OK. I guess we should just leave well enough alone then, huh? Sorry, I’m not inclined to leave bad alone. There needs to be more ideas tossed around on this issue.
3. When’s the next farmstead land rush? Where do I stake my mineral rights claim now? Where can my axe and I go to cut some timber for free? Doesn’t happen anymore. We had a boom in the middle class that was based on the rapid population and geographic expansion of this nation. But the feudal lords are steadily reconsolidating.

 

[whatevergirl]

This thread is not to discuss the hiring of illegal immigrants, it is to discuss whether businesses have the right to say that there is not enough cheap labor. All the talking heads in the media and the government are saying that there is not enough cheap labor to do the work that is required. I think that is a load of bull. There are too many highly paid executives!

If this is not so, look at the fact that in 1965, average CEO salaries were 51 times the minimum wage. Guess how much the average CEO salary was in 2005?

821 TIMES THE MINIMUM WAGE

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If the USA had a minimum ratio (ratio of maximum to minimum wages) instead of a minimum wage, think of what that would do! A person might not need to go to college to make a decent living! What a novel idea!

Source: CEO Minimum Wage Ratio Soars

My only question is, how come politicians of both parties have only been raising minimum wages and doing nothing about the ratio? Could it be that the campaign donations are just too much to overlook?

A CEO also has all of the company’s problems on his/her shoulders…A CEO is responsible for the stock price…financial disclosures…making sure his/her company is operating legally and ethically. That being said…they make crazy money. CRAZY MONEY. Look at US Air…when everyone was getting laid off…the prior CEO walked off with millions in bonuses. He drove the airline into the ground and to leave, they paid him millions. But, you can’t compare a minimum wage ee with a CEO. There really is no comparison. Just my thoughts.

I’m in favor of the increase. I’m salaried…but for people who work in retail…Walmart…Target…food services industry…the prior rate was horribly low.

 

[vern_humphrey]

This thread was not to condemn the rich, only the concept that an 800:1 ratio is acceptable. There are several risks to this and admittedly, management could go overseas to deepen their pockets. Or, we could see the introduction of tons of holding companies that will separate Executive Managers in one company and common laborers in the other company.

You begin to see how your proposal will have a negative impact on the economy – in ways you cannot predict.

I do see a VERY positive side to this though. On both sides of the political isles, if a politician raises the minimum wage, it can be viewed by some as a good thing. However, it doesn’t matter if you double the minimum wage to $10.00 if the cost of living, cost of goods, management salaries, doubles along with it.

You are correct that there are essentially no positive aspects to raising the minimum wage.

With a set wage ratio you could, in theory set the minimum wage at $7.00/hr and then set an appropriate wage ratio. Once that’s in place, there will be no more need to set minimum wages anymore. The market will takeover with only this one restriction.

Which will be a dramatic restriction, driving all sorts of management decisions which will have a negative impact on the American economy.

BTW, you can STILL restore salary control to the owners. I just don’t trust that owners will be that responsible. Also, what is this pay for performance stuff that I hear? I mean, shouldn’t a salary be enough these days?

You don’t trust the owners with their own money?!?!

Performance bonuses are like going to a store, buying a Maytag Washer, then paying Maytag extra if the washing machine washes your clothes right. Who the heck came up with that one?

No, performance bonuses are like going to a store, buying a Maytag Washer, then paying Maytag extra if the washing machine washes your clothes right, cooks your meals, balances your checkbook and does your income tax.

 

[whatevergirl]

You begin to see how your proposal will have a negative impact on the economy – in ways you cannot predict.

You are correct that there are essentially no positive aspects to raising the minimum wage.

Which will be a dramatic restriction, driving all sorts of management decisions which will have a negative impact on the American economy.

You don’t trust the owners with their own money?!?!

No, performance bonuses are like going to a store, buying a Maytag Washer, then paying Maytag extra if the washing machine washes your clothes right, cooks your meals, balances your checkbook and does your income tax.

sign me up for that washer.

 

[whatevergirl]

I get paid quarterly bonuses…there’s nothing wrong with bonuses…

 

[vern_humphrey]

I get paid quarterly bonuses…there’s nothing wrong with bonuses…

But in a true socialist economy, everyone would get the same wages – no matter how much or how little they contribute.:whacky: