Certain attitudes in traddom

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Dan_Daly said:
Not according to Rome. Our holy Pope says that all issues with the SSPX are IN CHURCH issues, between Catholics.
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I’m confused because on the local level, we’re warned not to have anything to do with SSPX. So if they are in the church, how are they in the church?

I don’t understand what all of these terms mean. How are we to understand canonical status, disciplinary versus doctrinal levels, ecclesiastical penalty? Not in full communion?
 
Viola_Incognita said:
Thank you, and thank you for the link.

I find this very interesting since there is an SSPX chapel very near where I live.

I would like to learn more about these distinctions (separated, schism, suspension) but how do I do that without causing a fight? I’m afraid to start a new thread.
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You just have to go with what the Church says really. It’s pretty simple with the SSPX. We know most of what is going on.

Now, there are other groups of Catholics that are not even in contact with Rome. These are the Independent groups. They are Catholic as far as their Mass and all, but they do not seek union with Rome. They can truly be called schismatic. Sedevacantists are an example (banned topic btw).

Really, one has to google this stuff to avoid arguments. When you have members of each group on one forum, it can be a mess.
 
Viola_Incognita said:
I’m confused because on the local level, we’re warned not to have anything to do with SSPX. So if they are in the church, how are they in the church?

I don’t understand what all of these terms mean. How are we to understand canonical status, disciplinary versus doctrinal levels, ecclesiastical penalty? Not in full communion?
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What it all means is, the SSPX has issues on matters of Doctrine. Rome has had discussions with the SSPX on these matters. No real “verdict” yet.

We just have to wait and pray they work something out.
 
Thanks!
At_Trent said:
They are Catholic as far as their Mass and all, but they do not seek union with Rome.
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Rome doesn’t consider those Masses valid though, right? I mean, as in the Real Presence? (Hope I’m not crossing a line here!) :confused:
 
Viola_Incognita said:
Thanks!

Rome doesn’t consider those Masses valid though, right? I mean, as in the Real Presence? (Hope I’m not crossing a line here!) :confused:
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A Mass can be both valid, but illicit.

If a priest is suspended, but prays a Mass and has proper intent, the Mass is valid. But it’s illicit due to his suspension.
 
At_Trent said:
A Mass can be both valid, but illicit.

If a priest is suspended, but prays a Mass and has proper intent, the Mass is valid. But it’s illicit due to his suspension.
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all what I said assumes a priest was validly ordained btw
 
I’m confused because on the local level, we’re warned not to have anything to do with SSPX. So if they are in the church, how are they in the church?
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I’m not sure what you mean by “on the local level”, but the guidance from Rome has been very confusing on the topic.

SSPX is not in schism. But some members have commited schismatic acts.

Masses offered are valid but not licit.

That said, Rome has instructed Catholics that they MAY attend SSPX masses, if there is a good reason. Okay…and then one of the reasons given is that the Catholic is especially attached to the EF of the Mass, and there is no other EF available in the area other than the SSPX.

Maybe it’s just me but that’s confusing. Participating in an illicit mass would appear to be a very serious matter. But the Church says you may go and participate.

Pax.
 
At_Trent said:
A Mass can be both valid, but illicit.

If a priest is suspended, but prays a Mass and has proper intent, the Mass is valid. But it’s illicit due to his suspension.
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So Jesus is there :), but He’s not suppose to be? 😦
 
Dan_Daly said:
I’m not sure what you mean by “on the local level”, but the guidance from Rome has been very confusing on the topic.
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On the local level of the SSPX chapel in my neighborhood, basically. Local level of it’s in my diocese.
 
Dan_Daly said:
I’m not sure what you mean by “on the local level”, but the guidance from Rome has been very confusing on the topic.

SSPX is not in schism. But some members have commited schismatic acts.

Masses offered are valid but not licit.

That said, Rome has instructed Catholics that they MAY attend SSPX masses, if there is a good reason. Okay…and then one of the reasons given is that the Catholic is especially attached to the EF of the Mass, and there is no other EF available in the area other than the SSPX.

Maybe it’s just me but that’s confusing. Participating in an illicit mass would appear to be a very serious matter. But the Church says you may go and participate.

Pax.
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It’s a mess is what it is 🤷
 
Some Bishops despise the SSPX. A handful have dinner with them. Some diocesan priests seek assistance from SSPX clergy to learn the TLM. In Germany, SSPX clergy are shunned and not permitted to pray Mass in diocesan churches. In Rome, SPPX clergy pray Mass on side altars of magnificent historical churches, same as your local parish priest might do while visiting Rome.
 
Viola_Incognita said:
You can say that again!

Thank you. This has been a very interesting and informative discussion. I very much appreciate it. 🙂
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You are welcome friend. Let’s just pray for an agreement between the SSPX and Rome. The SSPX and their flock need to be freed of the stigma, and Rome needs Holy priests. 🙂
 
At_Trent said:
Some Bishops despise the SSPX. A handful have dinner with them. Some diocesan priests seek assistance from SSPX clergy to learn the TLM. In Germany, SSPX clergy are shunned and not permitted to pray Mass in diocesan churches. In Rome, SPPX clergy pray Mass on side altars of magnificent historical churches, same as your local parish priest might do while visiting Rome.
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That’s really sad. 😦 I see that this is an area for praying for unity.
 
Walking_Home said:
Certain segments of the SSPX (not all) are getting cultist. Women are being told it is a mortal sin to wear pants. So they are not wearing skirts out of their own free will.
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what do you mean by cultist?

By the way i am not against those things. I am just asking about extremes
 
h1478971 said:
what do you mean by cultist?

By the way i am not against those things. I am just asking about extremes
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There was a thread in this forum – which brought up that there is cultist mentality within certain segments of the SSPX. This was mentioned by people who are/had been associated with the SSPX. This is not something new – for I read that this type of thinking (plus other irregularities) – at the SSPX stronghold at St. Mary’s Kansas – lead a priest by the name of Fr. John Rizzo to leave the SSPX.

Again – I am not saying this – involves the whole Society.
 
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