Certain attitudes in traddom

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Brother JR, OSF (JReducation):

I thank you for the time that you took to explain this clearly! Although I don’t agree totally with all of your points, my opinion is not the measure of things and you have presented the best explanation that I recall seeing.
 
Dragonslayer said:
I’m glad you clarified that this “cultist mentality”, whatever that is, does not apply to the whole society.

**Also, your earlier comment that women are being told it is a mortal sin to wear pants, is simply not true. **At least in Australia where I can speak from first hand experience.
Women are encouraged to dress like women and to dress modestly, but it is not a mortal sin to wear pants. As it has already been said about the other “issues” raised, it is merely being Catholic.
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It may not be true for your area in Austrialia — but it is within the Society – non the less.

More info as to how SSPX women – were “convinced” – to not wear pants can be found by doing a google search for —Fr. John Rizzo Slacks II.

Oh yea – this “encouragement to dress like women” — looks to be – more akin to manipulative brainwashing.
Yes they pretty muh are…there are exceptions of course but most of them say the same thing.** In fact my own priest told me that to wear pants would be a mortal sin**.
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angelqueen.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37014&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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TrueLight said:
Very interesting.

I hope no one gets offended, but the trads of today remind me almost of conservative Protestants. I grew up being told not to wear pants. My mom was a rebel, so we wore pants outside of church like on church trips. This was in a conservative Baptist church and also at my Grandmother’s pentecostal church.

This may make it easier for some of our separated brethren, who see Catholics as worldly, to draw closer to the Catholic Church.
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This is the weirdness of what is going on within “Traditionalism”. Reading some of the Trad sites – one comes across – how the “Vat II Church is running rampant with protestantism/liberalism/modernism/etc.”. Yet these extremist don’t recognized --the protestantism in themselves. Again this is not meant – all across the Traditional movement.
 
TrueLight said:
Very interesting.

I hope no one gets offended, but the trads of today remind me almost of conservative Protestants. I grew up being told not to wear pants. My mom was a rebel, so we wore pants outside of church like on church trips. This was in a conservative Baptist church and also at my Grandmother’s pentecostal church.

This may make it easier for some of our separated brethren, who see Catholics as worldly, to draw closer to the Catholic Church.
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I believe you mentioned TrueLight —that you have a 13 yr. old daughter. If she shows interest in attending college – what would you say to her. Would you say something like --if you plan to someday marry – there is no need/reason for a college education.
 
TrueLight said:
I don’t know which kids you are around, but the kids in the City are dating in elementary school. And by dating, I mean at least tongue kissing with hands roaming. And some of the girls are having oral sex.

And it only stops there because the boys’ bodies are not ready to do more. Once they hit puberty at 11-13, they begin to do more.

Also, even though I was innocent when I was that age, we still did stuff like play “RCK” which is run, catch and kiss - anyone remember that? lol. It was innocent enough - just a peck, but with the influx of media where everything is sex, sex, sex, I can assure you, kids get started early.
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If we as Catholics do our best to teach our children – what is right – they would be less likely to fall into the type of behavior – you describe above. Creating a bunker mentality --segregating the family from society – can lead to individuals that lack the necessary skills to function within society.
 
Walking_Home said:
I believe you mentioned TrueLight —that you have a 13 yr. old daughter. If she shows interest in attending college – what would you say to her. Would you say something like --if you plan to someday marry – there is no need/reason for a college education.
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Of course not! I’m like a borderline feminist.🙂
 
Walking_Home said:
If we as Catholics do our best to teach our children – what is right – they would be less likely to fall into the type of behavior – you describe above. Creating a bunker mentality --segregating the family from society – can lead to individuals that lack the necessary skills to function within society.
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When I was growing up, my mom did not let me play with boys when she was around. She told me that it was because they play rough. When I got older I realized the real reason.

I went to public school so I wasn’t sheltered.

However, I believe there can be occasions of sin even for children. All play should be supervised anyway, but the world and culture are different from when we were growing up.
 
TrueLight said:
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Walking_Home:
If we as Catholics do our best to teach our children – what is right – they would be less likely to fall into the type of behavior – you describe above. Creating a bunker mentality --segregating the family from society – can lead to individuals that lack the necessary skills to function within society.
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When I was growing up, my mom did not let me play with boys when she was around. She told me that it was because they play rough. When I got older I realized the real reason.

I went to public school so I wasn’t sheltered.

**However, I believe there can be occasions of sin even for children. **All play should be supervised anyway, but the world and culture are different from when we were growing up.
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That is why we are to teach them --starting from a young age.
 
Walking_Home said:
That is why we are to teach them --starting from a young age.
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Would you let your 13 year old go to an unsupervised Party that ends at 3AM because
  • She was taught better anyway
  • She has a ride, so she will get home safely
Children need boundaries.
 
TrueLight said:
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Walking_Home:
I believe you mentioned TrueLight —that you have a 13 yr. old daughter. If she shows interest in attending college – what would you say to her. Would you say something like --if you plan to someday marry – there is no need/reason for a college education
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Of course not! I’m like a borderline feminist.:)
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Glad to hear that. But what I said above concerning college – seems to be the mentality which has developed within the SSPX. Again – I can’t say if this all across the board.
 
TrueLight said:
Would you let your 13 year old go to an unsupervised Party that ends at 3AM because
  • She was taught better anyway
  • She has a ride, so she will get home safely
Children need boundaries.
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Of course not. But you also need to consider – that there will be times–when children/teenagers are not quite supervised.

For ex. – in public school – during recess and/or lunch. There are few teachers --in charge of supervising the students during this time. But I do not believe it is possible for the teachers to keep an eye on everone/everything that happens during these periods–when a bunch of students are loose.

Yes children/teenagers need boundaries – and we as parents are to teach them what these boundaries are.
 
JReducation said:
It is very sad and it is our hope that there will be reconciliation, because our credibility as Catholics suffers and we’re violating Christ’s command that we be one. It’s very hard to convince a non-Catholic that we believe what we say when we do the opposite. When SSPXers and other Catholics throw mud at each other, they are wrong. They are causing scandal to the world. The people of God are not supposed to be engaged in a barroom brawl.
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So true! Thank you.

And thank you so much for answering my questions!!! That was excellent! More than I ever could have hoped for! 😃

My prayer for unity: May we all pursue the virtues with the same fervor as we pursue ideas.
 
Dan_Daly said:
This is what is confusing. It is difficult, at least for me, to see how attendance is not support and encouragement in and of itself.

What would be the clearest sign there is no support for disobedience? People not showing up. So showing up, IS support.

At least that’s how I see it.

Pax.
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This is true. It is very tricky, because you attend the mass out of love for the EF, but not because you support the disobedience of the SSPX. To such a person, I would suggest that they attend prayerfully, of course. Even give a small donation. We must never deny anyone our charity. Then leave. You don’t have to beocme involved in their activities such as send your kids to their religious ed classes or attending other functions that are not the mass and certainly not going to confession to them or procuring any other sacrament from them. Even if the priest does not notice, you know and God knows your intention and your heart. The priest may not even notice that you only slip in and out for mass, because there are many other people there. That’s OK. It’s important that God notices.
SBroxson said:
Brother JR, OSF (JReducation):

I thank you for the time that you took to explain this clearly! Although I don’t agree totally with all of your points, my opinion is not the measure of things and you have presented the best explanation that I recall seeing.
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I regret that you disagree, but I accept your complimentary words. I actually had to write a paper on this for our Province to be presented to several dioceses, as my area of theology is Spiritual Theology and this affects the spiritual lives of laity, clergy and religious. I took a lot of my post from my paper which is 1300 pages. I’m sure that it does not come off as cohesive as the original and may leave room for questions. For that, I apologize. I could not post all 1300 pages, besides, I no longer own the work. Is now the property of the local diocese. Anything that we write for a diocese or province, becomes their property.
Viola_Incognita said:
So true! Thank you.

And thank you so much for answering my questions!!! That was excellent! More than I ever could have hoped for! 😃
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I’m truly glad that it helped. That’s what’s important. A Franciscan must always be like Joseph in the OT who when his brothers arrived in Egypt, he looked at their confusion and their need and simply said to them, “I am [Joseph] your brother.”
My prayer for unity: May we all pursue the virtues with the same fervor as we pursue ideas.
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We must always pray for the grace to forgive. Unless we learn to forgive and desire to forgive, we cannot be united.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
TrueLight said:
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Walking_Home:
That is the reason - why children end up in cults – wouldn’t you say. For ex. Jim Jones.
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Oh come on. Really! LOL.
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It happens. As to what will happen within the more extreme Traditionalists-- as more time goes by – I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
 
JReducation said:
This is true. It is very tricky, because you attend the mass out of love for the EF, but not because you support the disobedience of the SSPX. To such a person, I would suggest that they attend prayerfully, of course. Even give a small donation. We must never deny anyone our charity. Then leave. You don’t have to beocme involved in their activities such as send your kids to their religious ed classes or attending other functions that are not the mass and certainly not going to confession to them or procuring any other sacrament from them. Even if the priest does not notice, you know and God knows your intention and your heart. The priest may not even notice that you only slip in and out for mass, because there are many other people there. That’s OK. It’s important that God notices.

I regret that you disagree, but I accept your complimentary words. I actually had to write a paper on this for our Province to be presented to several dioceses, as my area of theology is Spiritual Theology and this affects the spiritual lives of laity, clergy and religious. I took a lot of my post from my paper which is 1300 pages. I’m sure that it does not come off as cohesive as the original and may leave room for questions. For that, I apologize. I could not post all 1300 pages, besides, I no longer own the work. Is now the property of the local diocese. Anything that we write for a diocese or province, becomes their property.

I’m truly glad that it helped. That’s what’s important. A Franciscan must always be like Joseph in the OT who when his brothers arrived in Egypt, he looked at their confusion and their need and simply said to them, “I am [Joseph] your brother.”

We must always pray for the grace to forgive. Unless we learn to forgive and desire to forgive, we cannot be united.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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Thank you for your very clear explaination on this matter.
 
TrueLight said:
Would you let your 13 year old go to an unsupervised Party that ends at 3AM because
  • She was taught better anyway
  • She has a ride, so she will get home safely
Children need boundaries.
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A 13 year old is far from being an adult. Yes, they need and want (whether they realise that or not) boundaries and rules. However, we start teaching them from young so they can deal with situations which they will have to handle as we cannot be there for them all the time.
 
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