Chaldean Patriarch

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shlomo3amrooh

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Who do you think will be the next Chaldean Patriarch?

And what time is the Synod? it is 9:13am in Italy now.
 
Axios to our new Patriarch! I’m very glad he is pro liturgical reform. May he lead our troubled and embattled church towards the future, as we pray for stability in the middle east.
 
chaldobyzantine said:
Axios to our new Patriarch! I’m very glad he is pro liturgical reform. May he lead our troubled and embattled church towards the future, as we pray for stability in the middle east.
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I’ll join in and say “shaken leh, moryo” (yeah … I know … wrong dialect 😉 but you get the idea … ) 🙂

I know literally nothing about Mar Louis-Rapheal beyond some of his political positions that have made the press, so I have to ask: when you say “pro liturgical reform” does that mean he’s for the real thing (like Mar Sarhad, for example), or does it mean he is (like certain otherr Chaldean prelates and oh so many Maronites, patriarchs, bishops, whatever) one of the revisionists whose idea of “reform” remains emulation (or, in the case of the Chaldeans, re-emulation) of the Novus Ordo?
 
That is what I was wondering as well when I saw the words “pro liturgical reform.” I’m hoping it means the former.
malphono said:
I’ll join in and say “shaken leh, moryo” (yeah … I know … wrong dialect 😉 but you get the idea … ) 🙂

I know literally nothing about Mar Louis-Rapheal beyond some of his political positions that have made the press, so I have to ask: when you say “pro liturgical reform” does that mean he’s for the real thing (like Mar Sarhad, for example), or does it mean he is (like certain otherr Chaldean prelates and oh so many Maronites, patriarchs, bishops, whatever) one of the revisionists whose idea of “reform” remains emulation (or, in the case of the Chaldeans, re-emulation)? of the Novus Ordo
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malphono said:
I’ll join in and say “shaken leh, moryo” (yeah … I know … wrong dialect 😉 but you get the idea … ) 🙂

I know literally nothing about Mar Louis-Rapheal beyond some of his political positions that have made the press, so I have to ask: when you say “pro liturgical reform” does that mean he’s for the real thing (like Mar Sarhad, for example), or does it mean he is (like certain otherr Chaldean prelates and oh so many Maronites, patriarchs, bishops, whatever) one of the revisionists whose idea of “reform” remains emulation (or, in the case of the Chaldeans, re-emulation) of the Novus Ordo?
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For the delatinizing reforms set forth in 2007, not Novus Ordo deforms. If the new Patriarch turned his back against delatinization, Mar Sarhad would definitely protest. How did you think I would be glad for someone who would insist on cheesy songs being sung during the Eucharistic Prayer of the priest during Holy Qurbana? I literally had a sigh of relief when a certain retiring eparch was not elected.

By the way malphono, how do you spell “shaken leh” in Syriac?
 
Hellelu Eshoo’ Mishihoo!!! (Praise be Jesus the Messiah!)

I hope and pray that His Beatitude Maran Mar Louis Raphael I Sako will protect his flock especially those whom are facing persecution in Iraq.

Toba Shlom, Roeo Shareroo!!!
 
chaldobyzantine said:
For the delatinizing reforms set forth in 2007, not Novus Ordo deforms. If the new Patriarch turned his back against delatinization, Mar Sarhad would definitely protest. How did you think I would be glad for someone who would insist on cheesy songs being sung during the Eucharistic Prayer of the priest during Holy Qurbana?
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That’s the answer I was hoping and expecting to hear, but I just wanted to be sure. 😉
chaldobyzantine said:
I literally had a sigh of relief when a certain retiring eparch was not elected.
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Now let me see … :hmmm: … I wonder which one that could be? 😃
chaldobyzantine said:
By the way malphono, how do you spell “shaken leh” in Syriac?
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It’s shin-kaph-nun lamedh-he 🙂
 
malphono said:
I’ll join in and say “shaken leh, moryo” (yeah … I know … wrong dialect 😉 but you get the idea … ) 🙂

I know literally nothing about Mar Louis-Rapheal beyond some of his political positions that have made the press, so I have to ask: when you say “pro liturgical reform” does that mean he’s for the real thing (like Mar Sarhad, for example), or does it mean he is (like certain otherr Chaldean prelates and oh so many Maronites, patriarchs, bishops, whatever) one of the revisionists whose idea of “reform” remains emulation (or, in the case of the Chaldeans, re-emulation) of the Novus Ordo?
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Here is what the newly elected patriarch said about liturgy during an interview with Vatican Radio:
Q: A native of Mosul, to date you were Archbishop of Kirkuk in Northern Iraq, what do you see as the greatest challenges ahead for your Church?
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“For the Chaldean Church it is the unity of the bishops, the reforms of our liturgies, we should reform and update them so people can pray and understand and live out their faith. But also the security and peace in the country. There is no stability and the security is getting worse, everybody is worried. Also, for me as head of this Church, immigration is a big challenge for us”.
Source: en.radiovaticana.va/Articolo.asp?c=661188
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Reform and update the liturgies? :confused:
 
griego_catolico said:
Reform and update the liturgies? :confused:
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I believe he is referring to the fact that the reforms that have already been set forth and made official have unfortunately not been implemented in most of the Chaldean parishes worldwide. His Beatitude Emanuel III didn’t really push aggressively for the Reformed Chaldean Liturgy to my knowledge, nor did he ever really bring it up. Whether it was or wasn’t implemented, he left up to individual bishops, and didn’t seem to mind the fact that parishes didn’t update their own translations, reprinted with the pre-2007 texts.

Syriac translations still vary among different dioceses in the church, due to different wording from each town’s own dialect and influence of Arabic. English liturgy translations are even worse, completely leaving out some words, and my eparchy is basically celebrating the liturgy set to Marty Haugen’s “Mass of Creation” composition. Novus Ordo influence is still rampant, and if anyone thinks we can get any more latinized, I’d say the remaining step is using the Mass of Paul VI. The reform removes these distortions, and brings the Chaldean Church back to its Church of the East roots. At least the Patriarch-Elect is actually bringing it up, which is a positive step forward. 👍

For more on the reform see the posted links.
kaldu.org/joomla/index.php/liturgy/the-reformed-chaldean-mass/95-liturgy/the-reformed-chaldean-mass/80-q-and-a-on-the-reformed-chaldean-mass
kaldu.org/joomla/index.php/liturgy/the-reformed-chaldean-mass/95-liturgy/the-reformed-chaldean-mass/78-presentation-of-the-reformed-chaldean-missal

God Bless.
 
I do hope the Eastern Churches de-Latinize as much as I hope the Latin Church de-Easternizes! I love being a Latin, but I seriously do appreciate the Eastern Churches and their Rites. I am a fan of [authentic…] liturgical diversity. I also hope that one day the various Rites of the religious Orders of the Latin Church will return.
 
chaldobyzantine said:
Syriac translations still vary among different dioceses in the church, due to different wording from each town’s own dialect and influence of Arabic. English liturgy translations are even worse, completely leaving out some words, and my eparchy is basically celebrating the liturgy set to Marty Haugen’s “Mass of Creation” composition. Novus Ordo influence is still rampant, and if anyone thinks we can get any more latinized, I’d say the remaining step is using the Mass of Paul VI. The reform removes these distortions, and brings the Chaldean Church back to its Church of the East roots. At least the Patriarch-Elect is actually bringing it up, which is a positive step forward. 👍
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Please do not call Marty Haugen music a Latinization! It is not. It is a deformation, even in the Latin Church. YIKES!

PS: I read the text at those links, and it seems to me that the “reformed” Chaldean Mass is basically a tweaked version of the Novus Ordo… ??
 
YoungTradCath said:
Please do not call Marty Haugen music a Latinization! It is not. It is a deformation, even in the Latin Church. YIKES!

PS: I read the text at those links, and it seems to me that the “reformed” Chaldean Mass is basically a tweaked version of the Novus Ordo… ??
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What makes you say that? I didn’t post the liturgy link up. There is very little in common between the Roman Mass and the Holy Qurbana of Saints Addai and Mari. The main modification that still stands is that the Words of Institution are a permanent part of the Holy Qurbana. This is not exactly a latinization, but an already existing seasonal anaphora that due to external influences became permanent. I invite you to read the reformed text and to visit a Chaldean parish (in the western United States) to see how truly unique our traditions are.

kaldu.org/14_Reformed_ChaldeanMass/PeopleBook_Eng.html

God Bless.
 
YoungTradCath said:
I do hope the Eastern Churches de-Latinize as much as I hope the Latin Church de-Easternizes! I love being a Latin, but I seriously do appreciate the Eastern Churches and their Rites. I am a fan of [authentic…] liturgical diversity. I also hope that one day the various Rites of the religious Orders of the Latin Church will return.
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The Latin Church is Easternised? Pray tell! 🙂
 
Maybe he means how the authentic chant of the Bragans, Mozarabs, and other “non-Roman” Latins isn’t Gregorian, which we all know Tradition demands Latins privilege? 😛
 
YoungTradCath said:
I do hope the Eastern Churches de-Latinize as much as I hope the Latin Church de-Easternizes! I love being a Latin, but I seriously do appreciate the Eastern Churches and their Rites. I am a fan of [authentic…] liturgical diversity. I also hope that one day the various Rites of the religious Orders of the Latin Church will return.
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Filii_Dei said:
The Latin Church is Easternised? Pray tell! 🙂
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dzheremi said:
Maybe he means how the authentic chant of the Bragans, Mozarabs, and other “non-Roman” Latins isn’t Gregorian, which we all know Tradition demands Latins privilege? 😛
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I was wondering the same thing. But it’s completely off-topic here and should really be in a thread of its own.
 
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