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It’s like saying the apocrypha are wrong only because most Christians say they’re wrong. That obviously does not constitute disproof of the apocryphal accounts.
Muslims can pick up any apocrypha and it will still oppose the Quran. Even the apocrypha is opposed to what Muhammad taught yet Muhammad picked from here and there and claimed to NOT have received these info from men " because he wasn’t present at Jesus’ time" which is simply ironic coming from an all-knowing deity who must have known that these info already exist in ridiculous gospels. It is this picking and choosing between apocrypha and legends that we are dealing with and which Muhammad wants to convince us are the eternal words of allah.
 
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pro:
Posting as to what is considered Canonical does not constitute a demonstration of anything other than the fact that orthodox Christians accept the orthodox Christian version of the story. It’s totally irrelevant to Khalfan’s point.
That’s why I posted this definition.

catholic-forum.com/saints/ncd00648.htm
catholicreference.net/index.cfm?id=31877

apocrypha
(Greek: apokryphos, hidden)

Originally writings that claimed a sacred origin and were supposed to have been hidden for generations; later, a well-defined class of literature with scriptural or quasi-scriptural pretensions, but lacking genuineness and canonicity, which were composed during the two centuries before Christ and the early centuries of our era. Protestants apply the term improperly to denote also Old Testament books, not contained in the Jewish canon, but received by Catholics under the name of deuterocanonical.
 
This is another Catholic definition of apocryphal gospels (emphasis mine):

(1) APOCRYPHAL GOSPELS
The term apocryphal in connection with special Gospels must be understood as bearing no more unfavourable an import than “uncanonical”. This applies to the Gospel of the Hebrews and in a less degree to that of the Egyptians, which in the main seem to have been either embodiments of primitive tradition, or a mere recasting of canonical Gospels with a few variations and amplifications. It is true, all the extant specimens of the apocryphal Gospels take the inspired evangelical documents as their starting-point. But the genuine Gospels are silent about long stretches of the life of Our Lord, the Blessed Virgin, and St. Joseph. Frequently they give but a tantalizing glimpse of some episode on which we would fain be more fully informed. This reserve of the Evangelists did not satisfy the pardonable curiosity of many Christians eager for details, and the severe and dignified simplicity of their narrative left unappeased imaginations seeking the sensational and the marvellous. When, therefore, enterprising spirits responded to this natural craving by pretended Gospels full of romantic fables and fantastic and striking details, their fabrications were eagerly read and largely accepted as true by common folk who were devoid of any critical faculty and who were predisposed to believe what so luxuriously fed their pious curiosity. Both Catholics and Gnostics were concerned in writing these fictions. The former had no other motive than that of a pious fraud, being sometimes moved by a real though misguided zeal, as witness the author of the Pseudo-Matthew: Amor Christi est cui satisfecimus. But the heretical apocryphists, while gratifying curiosity, composed spurious Gospels in order to trace backward their beliefs and peculiarities to Christ Himself. The Church and the Fathers were hostile even towards the narratives of orthodox authorship. It was not until the Middle Ages, when their true origin was forgotten even by most of the learned, that these apocryphal stories began to enter largely into sacred legends, such as the “Aurea Sacra”, into miracle plays, Christian art, and poetry. A comparison of the least extravagant of these productions with the real Gospels reveals the chasm separating them. Though worthless historically, the apocryphal Gospels help us to better understand the religious conditions of the second and third centuries, and they are also of no little value as early witnesses of the canonicity of the writings of the four Evangelists. The quasi-evangelistic compositions concerning Christ which make no pretensions to be Gospels will be treated elsewhere. They are all of orthodox origin. (See AGRAPHA.)
newadvent.org/cathen/01601a.htm#III
 
no, i am saying that if the Quran is indeed the eternal words of God, why then do we find many apocrypha written in the 4th century in addition to legends put as God’s word? do you know how many apocrypha is found in the Quran? i can list more than 5 apocrypha and gnostic gospels written by non-apostolic people and gnostic authors. Did Allah reveal to all these authors the truth as well when non of them was an apostle or prophet?

bear in mind that the apocryphic gospels are NOT a case against Christianity since many have orthodox teachings like Jesus being God, that he was crucified, that he performed miracles, that he was born to a virgin ecc.Christians reject them because they are not apostolic, which was the criteria, even if the content is correct and orthodox.
Yet many have ficticious claims about Jesus like talking in the cradle or breathing life into birds which Muhammad thought were correct but if you read the rest of the gospel from which Muhammad took his info, you’d laugh at their absurdity. How can the same author who wrote absurd things about Jesus in many passages, how can he be inspired in others? how can the erternal word of Allah be from unispired men here and there? how can the Judeo-Christian legends created by men be the eternal word of Allah?

In other words, Allah is saying that Muhammad did not receice these info from men because he was not present at Jesus’ time, which is a flawed reason because these same info were written by men and Muhammad only needed listen to them without living at Jesus’ time.
How do you seperate Apocrypha and non-Apocrypha books?

How do you seperate inspired and un-inspired books?
 
Why would God give us His story twice though?
If the Quran is from God, of course it would be different, as God would not need to tell us His story to 2 prophets.

But we know His final word was Jesus, so we therefore know the Quran is false, and most copied from the Bible
Seems like an innocent Christian. I appreciate your truthness. Be honest to what you believe, whatever it is and try to learn more and more. Learn to ask questions on what you don’t understand.

If one command or some revelation could lead entire mankind to the true path to heaven/kingdom of God, God could do that with Adam (pbuh) itself. Did the command to avoid the fruit, worked in the garden? No. Serpent mislead Adam and Eve. Man falls in temptation since begenning. Man do sin, thats how God created us. But best of the sinners are those who repent and return to God (quote by Prophet Mohamed (pbuh). You can find something similar in OT as well, like in Eze 18). Fallen men need guidence. Thats why God sent prophets all the time with guidence and some of them with revelations. If Jesus (pbuh) was indeed God as you say, or was truly a prophet as we say, and men could understand words he preached so simply, why would any Jew reject him? Fallen men existed even at the time Jesus (pbuh). Why? Becasue beaing wrong or right is a choice given to all of us. Understanding the sign or the prophets is a choice given to all of us. Believers and non-believers always existed. It is those non-believers and their generations wanted guidence, So God revealed his existence, dos and do nots of life through messengers. Since only one God existed all the time, story of God was/is the same. But dos and do nots were/are different according to time and people.
 
If one command or some revelation could lead entire mankind to the true path to heaven/kingdom of God, God could do that with Adam (pbuh) itself.
I think He did give the one command. The Word was with God in the beginning. John 1:1
Did the command to avoid the fruit, worked in the garden? No. Serpent mislead Adam and Eve. Man falls in temptation since begenning. Man do sin, thats how God created us.
God created us with the ability to sin…or not. How long do you think Adam and Eve lived with God in the Garden before they fell to temptation and sinned? I think it was a long time as we understand time. That is how God created us.
But best of the sinners are those who repent and return to God (quote by Prophet Mohamed (pbuh). You can find something similar in OT as well, like in Eze 18). Fallen men need guidence. Thats why God sent prophets all the time with guidence and some of them with revelations.
There are true and false prophets. We disagree on who was a prophet, and what was said by them in almost every instance.
If Jesus (pbuh) was indeed God as you say, or was truly a prophet as we say, and men could understand words he preached so simply, why would any Jew reject him?
The same reason(s) you reject Him.
Fallen men existed even at the time Jesus (pbuh). Why? Becasue beaing wrong or right is a choice given to all of us.
Free Will is not a curse from God. It is our nature to be free human beings, and the right of all men and women to be free.
Understanding the sign or the prophets is a choice given to all of us. Believers and non-believers always existed. It is those non-believers and their generations wanted guidence, So God revealed his existence, dos and do nots of life through messengers.
Many are led astray by false prophets.
Since only one God existed all the time, story of God was/is the same. But dos and do nots were/are different according to time and people.
I do not believe they change for either a time or people. The do’s and don’ts are eternal because that is the nature of God who created us, and legitimate prophets do not change or contradict them- they repeat and abide by them. This is why Jesus is not a legitimate prophet, but God. He repeated them, lived them, fulfilled them, and exceeded them by summarizing the Law for us.
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
This is why Mohamed is not a legitimate prophet. Whether or not he loved God like Jesus said and did is subjective, he did not love his neighbor like Jesus said and did and that is not subjective. He did not love his neighbor like Abraham said and did. Mohamed attacked his neighbors to force them to accept Islam. Jesus never did that, and neither has any OT prophet. And the do’s and don’ts of Islam are from Mohamed. He cannot be trusted.
 
How do you seperate Apocrypha and non-Apocrypha books?

How do you seperate inspired and un-inspired books?
the quote Rodrigo gave explains things.Gospel Apocrypha does not necessarily mean wrong or heretic. Early Christians and Church Fathers did not reject them because they are wrong since many were very orthodox, and some even “suit” Christians better because they say explicitely Jesus is God, for example. Yet one of the criteria is to have apostolic authority. Even if an apocrypha is very orthodox yet not apostolic, it was rejected.
 
“kerjk 34# mr, l &@p x<>45uiew hdfj
eri
jksdf, erk8
eri
mdf,l 56 {458mrul} jjl k=jl jjl
eri”
-Montalban.

This poem is the greatest ever written. I challenge any Moslem to find something its equal.

Note, I can’t translate it for you into English becuase that would mean that you’d loose some of its beauty.👍
 
“kerjk 34# mr, l &@p x<>45uiew hdfj
eri
jksdf, erk8
eri
mdf,l 56 {458mrul} jjl k=jl jjl
eri”
-Montalban.

This poem is the greatest ever written. I challenge any Moslem to find something its equal.

Note, I can’t translate it for you into English becuase that would mean that you’d loose some of its beauty.👍
"erhasppw a/sfkj nxmppwl

a;jja;mf’;l;f’;=lke;k03l;

so-2lk;le-3k;lj;fj af

a;j9-3lir0-0j;oj

alskj-02lkw=202=

=93=-8j fjf03j;ejs0"

Challenge met.

Note, I can’t translate it for you into English becuase that would mean that you’d loose some of its beauty.👍👍 👍
 
Seems like an innocent Christian. I appreciate your truthness. Be honest to what you believe, whatever it is and try to learn more and more. Learn to ask questions on what you don’t understand.

If one command or some revelation could lead entire mankind to the true path to heaven/kingdom of God, God could do that with Adam (pbuh) itself. Did the command to avoid the fruit, worked in the garden? No. Serpent mislead Adam and Eve. Man falls in temptation since begenning. Man do sin, thats how God created us. But best of the sinners are those who repent and return to God (quote by Prophet Mohamed (pbuh). You can find something similar in OT as well, like in Eze 18). Fallen men need guidence. Thats why God sent prophets all the time with guidence and some of them with revelations. If Jesus (pbuh) was indeed God as you say, or was truly a prophet as we say, and men could understand words he preached so simply, why would any Jew reject him? Fallen men existed even at the time Jesus (pbuh). Why? Becasue beaing wrong or right is a choice given to all of us. Understanding the sign or the prophets is a choice given to all of us. Believers and non-believers always existed. It is those non-believers and their generations wanted guidence, So God revealed his existence, dos and do nots of life through messengers. Since only one God existed all the time, story of God was/is the same. But dos and do nots were/are different according to time and people.
Sorry but none of that made any sense.

People disbelieve because we are people.

God gave us His Word in human form, Jesus who IS God, and not just a prophet.

So I say once again why would God need to give us His Word more than once?
 
What does ijmaa’ mean (consensus)?
What does it mean that the doors of ijtihaad are closed, and how are they closed?
What does it have to do with the question? especially when ‘Ijmaa’ or ‘Khiyas’ has conditions to be followed.
 
Sorry but none of that made any sense.

People disbelieve because we are people.

God gave us His Word in human form, Jesus who IS God, and not just a prophet.

So I say once again why would God need to give us His Word more than once?
What do you mean by, ‘God gave his word in human form’? What was given before Jesus (pbuh) born? Like the words of God in OT.

Jesus (pbuh) being God or word of God are theological conclusions. Truth is a man who lived 2000 years ago. If you think practically, you can’t find Jesus as God or Word of God. Jesus (pbuh) preached Words of God that revealed to him. I don’t think you believe, whatever Jesus (pbuh) spoke was completely words of God. Do you?
 
What do you mean by, ‘God gave his word in human form’? What was given before Jesus (pbuh) born? Like the words of God in OT.
Please note Khalfan, I typed “his word” with capital letters at start.

You didn’t.

The Word (with a capital letter) is Jesus.

It does not mean written words as in the Bible.

The words of God from the OT were written by prophets.
 
This poem is the greatest ever written. I challenge any Moslem to find something its equal.

Note, I can’t translate it for you into English becuase that would mean that you’d loose some of its beauty.👍
Hi

Is it worth getting a place in the 120 books or so of the NT or as one of the the chapters in Psalm,Proverbs,Ecclesiastes,
Song of Solomon in the OT?

Thanks
 
Please note Khalfan, I typed “his word” with capital letters at start.

You didn’t.

The Word (with a capital letter) is Jesus.

It does not mean written words as in the Bible.

The words of God from the OT were written by prophets.
Was those Words, Jesus getting revealed?
 
the quote Rodrigo gave explains things.Gospel Apocrypha does not necessarily mean wrong or heretic. Early Christians and Church Fathers did not reject them because they are wrong since many were very orthodox, and some even “suit” Christians better because they say explicitely Jesus is God, for example. Yet one of the criteria is to have apostolic authority. Even if an apocrypha is very orthodox yet not apostolic, it was rejected.
Those apocrypha were to check with some ‘original’ believes or concepts that already accepted by church fathers. What was that and where they got it from? On what measuring scale, church fathers accepted those ‘originals’?
 
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