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Verisimilitude said:
I think He did give the one command. The Word was with God in the beginning. John 1:1

God created us with the ability to sin…or not. How long do you think Adam and Eve lived with God in the Garden before they fell to temptation and sinned? I think it was a long time as we understand time. That is how God created us.

There are true and false prophets. We disagree on who was a prophet, and what was said by them in almost every instance.

The same reason(s) you reject Him.

Free Will is not a curse from God. It is our nature to be free human beings, and the right of all men and women to be free.

Many are led astray by false prophets.

I do not believe they change for either a time or people. The do’s and don’ts are eternal because that is the nature of God who created us, and legitimate prophets do not change or contradict them- they repeat and abide by them. This is why Jesus is not a legitimate prophet, but God. He repeated them, lived them, fulfilled them, and exceeded them by summarizing the Law for us.

This is why Mohamed is not a legitimate prophet. Whether or not he loved God like Jesus said and did is subjective, he did not love his neighbor like Jesus said and did and that is not subjective. He did not love his neighbor like Abraham said and did. Mohamed attacked his neighbors to force them to accept Islam. Jesus never did that, and neither has any OT prophet. And the do’s and don’ts of Islam are from Mohamed. He cannot be trusted.
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Wow… Such great scholarly explanation. Just one thing, is it an argument or just some childish claims?
 
Khalfan said:
Those apocrypha were to check with some ‘original’ believes or concepts that already accepted by church fathers. What was that and where they got it from? On what measuring scale, church fathers accepted those ‘originals’?
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The same way you accept your original scriptures. In most cases the apocrypha (not the seven hidden books) were written long after the event and are clearly fictional.
 
Khalfan said:
Wow… Such great scholarly explanation. Just one thing, is it an argument or just some childish claims?
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You can jump on the same bandwagon as pro_universal, but it means nothing when you, like him refute what I say with nothing but deflection.

Why not answer the questions or show cause they are untrue or illogical? The only childish element here is your inability/unwillingness to do that.

What is the Mohammedean thought on how long Adam and Eve were in the Garden before they sinned? It’s a simple theological question that has bearing on the subject as it shows the original created nature of Man.

False prophets arise in all faiths. What is your criteria to determine them? Another simple relevent theolgical question.

Do you deny you reject Christ for the same reasons?

You are the one who makes unsupported claims like the do’s and don’ts change with time and people. I gave you good reason why that does not seem true, but yet you call me childish for it without defending your original claim.

Have you heard the joke about a man at a bus stop and a little dog that keeps bothering him?
 
All in all, Muhammad claimed that no human, no jinn,no one can write a sura/aya like the Quran because it is the exact same words of Allah and not his own words since where can he get these info from if he were not present at Jesus’ time? it must surely be from a divine origin.

1- the apocrypha quoted shows the same stylistic features found in the Quran. Unless Allah inspired the author of the apocrypha, then the words in the quran are plagiarism of other men.

This is the "inspired"apocrypha. :

gnosis.org/library/infarab.htm

2- not being present is a flawed argument cuz he only needed listen to these passages as shown from the different sources he relied on.
 
Khalfan said:
What does it have to do with the question? especially when ‘Ijmaa’ or ‘Khiyas’ has conditions to be followed.
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Your question was:
Would anything be true, if a large number of people accepted?

You asked would something be true if a large number of people accepted.
Ijmaa’ ‘Consensus’ means a large number of people believe.
The reason that ijmaa’ is one of the sources of shari’ah is the concept of the hadith that the community will not agree on error.
It a large number of your people agree on a consensus, then the principle holds it is not in error therefore true.
Your original question.

Example: in the 18th century the scholars reached a consensus that female education was against Islam (seperation of the sexes, etc.) etc. So the door of ijtihaad, the status of being an open question was closed.
 
Khalfan said:
What do you mean by, ‘God gave his word in human form’? What was given before Jesus (pbuh) born? Like the words of God in OT.

Jesus (pbuh) being God or word of God are theological conclusions. Truth is a man who lived 2000 years ago. If you think practically, you can’t find Jesus as God or Word of God. Jesus (pbuh) preached Words of God that revealed to him. I don’t think you believe, whatever Jesus (pbuh) spoke was completely words of God. Do you?
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Since the Quran refers to Christ as God’s Word, without explaining it, I don’t see your objection.
In Greek NT God “theo-”, Word “logos”.>theology, i.e. the God thing.
 
Khalfan said:
Those apocrypha were to check with some ‘original’ believes or concepts that already accepted by church fathers. What was that and where they got it from? On what measuring scale, church fathers accepted those ‘originals’?
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Sort of like shifting through all those traditions, which your sources say, a lot were forged, on what your prophet did and said.
 
Isa_Almisry said:
Sort of like shifting through all those traditions, which your sources say, a lot were forged, on what your prophet did and said.
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Not only our source, but the gospels itself proves the development of Jesus (pbuh) from man to God.
 
Isa_Almisry said:
Word_, no plural. Note.
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You don’t mean word by Word. You don’t mean son by Son. You don’t mean father by Father. You don’t mean God by GOD. You don’t mean 1 by One. You don’t mean 3 by Three. You don’t mean daeth by Death. You don’t mean born by Born. List goes on… You have your own meaning for it. No problem; Do you use the same meaning all the time? No. You choose meaning according to situation. Why is that?
 
Isa_Almisry said:
Your question was:
Would anything be true, if a large number of people accepted?

You asked would something be true if a large number of people accepted.
Ijmaa’ ‘Consensus’ means a large number of people believe.
The reason that ijmaa’ is one of the sources of shari’ah is the concept of the hadith that the community will not agree on error.
It a large number of your people agree on a consensus, then the principle holds it is not in error therefore true.
Your original question.

Example: in the 18th century the scholars reached a consensus that female education was against Islam (seperation of the sexes, etc.) etc. So the door of ijtihaad, the status of being an open question was closed.
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You didn’t mention the conditions. The basic condition to announce any Ijmaa is, it should not contradict Quran or Sunna.

In the case of female education, it is against Quran and Sunna, so that it is not practiced at all. And where did you get that Fatwa? Please note that we too have problems of ‘scholars’ like you have with protestents. So Islam doesn’t have to agree with fatwas of self proclaimed scholars. Door Ijthihad closed? in what sense? where you got that from?
 
Isa_Almisry said:
Since the Quran refers to Christ as God’s Word, without explaining it, I don’t see your objection.
In Greek NT God “theo-”, Word “logos”.>theology, i.e. the God thing.
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What dead on the cross, Word, God or Man?
 
inJESUS said:
All in all, Muhammad claimed that no human, no jinn,no one can write a sura/aya like the Quran because it is the exact same words of Allah and not his own words since where can he get these info from if he were not present at Jesus’ time? it must surely be from a divine origin.

1- the apocrypha quoted shows the same stylistic features found in the Quran. Unless Allah inspired the author of the apocrypha, then the words in the quran are plagiarism of other men.

This is the "inspired"apocrypha. :

gnosis.org/library/infarab.htm
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That’s illogic. What Quan says about the birth or life of Jesus (pbuh) is history. It doesn’t mean only God knew those things and not even Mary or Jesus (pbut). There was indeed other people too, who witnessed the event in cradle, other events in the life of Jesus (pbuh). If any of those wrote what they saw, that supports the claim of Quran as historical evidence from an outer source. On what basis you said, those apocrypha also supposed to be from God, since it says the similar stories?
2- not being present is a flawed argument cuz he only needed listen to these passages as shown from the different sources he relied on.
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Not sources, but source -God.
 
Verisimilitude said:
You can jump on the same bandwagon as pro_universal, but it means nothing when you, like him refute what I say with nothing but deflection.
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I couldn’t see you have done something better in Post no
Why not answer the questions or show cause they are untrue or illogical? The only childish element here is your inability/unwillingness to do that.
Click to expand...
What is the Mohammedean thought on how long Adam and Eve were in the Garden before they sinned? It’s a simple theological question that has bearing on the subject as it shows the original created nature of Man.
Click to expand...
False prophets arise in all faiths. What is your criteria to determine them? Another simple relevent theolgical question.
Click to expand...
Do you deny you reject Christ for the same reasons?
Click to expand...
You are the one who makes unsupported claims like the do’s and don’ts change with time and people. I gave you good reason why that does not seem true, but yet you call me childish for it without defending your original claim.
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Have you heard the joke about a man at a bus stop and a little dog that keeps bothering him?
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Khalfan said:
"erhasppw a/sfkj nxmppwl

a;jja;mf’;l;f’;=lke;k03l;

so-2lk;le-3k;lj;fj af

a;j9-3lir0-0j;oj

alskj-02lkw=202=

=93=-8j fjf03j;ejs0"

Challenge met.

Note, I can’t translate it for you into English becuase that would mean that you’d loose some of its
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Now you’ve caught the meaning of the Koranic challenge! Odd you don’t even realise it! Doh!🤷
 
Verisimilitude said:
What is the Mohammedean thought on how long Adam and Eve were in the Garden before they sinned? It’s a simple theological question that has bearing on the subject as it shows the original created nature of Man.
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How is it related to each other? We don’t do that much of ‘thoelogical experiments’. So can’t understand you verymuch.
False prophets arise in all faiths. What is your criteria to determine them? Another simple relevent theolgical question.
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The false prophets?.. His prophecy will go wrong. He will die if he drink any deadly poison. He can’t speak forign languages. He won’t be able to do greater works than our prophets did. He will preach about God as 3 or more. He will not be able to do bitter water tests. He won’t be able to make the best wine in the world.

If the prophet has a clear sign of God that no creatures can do, then he is the true prophet.
Do you deny you reject Christ for the same reasons?
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I deny Christianity, not Jesus (pbuh).
You are the one who makes unsupported claims like the do’s and don’ts change with time and people.
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Do you follow the old commandmends that revealed to Moses (pbuh)? Do you follow the commandmends that Jesus (pbuh) taught, like prohibition of pork?
I gave you good reason why that does not seem true, but yet you call me childish for it without defending your original claim.
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Have you heard the joke about a man at a bus stop and a little dog that keeps bothering him?
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Yaa… I use to feel that sometime.
 
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