challenge question, who can answer this

[rinnie]

rinnie:

perhaps this may help…

“Catholic church” is often used to refer to the RC church, whereas, “catholic church” describes the universal body of believers in Jesus (the Messiah)/ Son of G-d. The small “catholic” literally means “universal” - not just RC or any one particular sect, denomination, or whatever.

Therefore, when ppl recite the Apostles’ Creed, they are referring to the universal church (body of believers throughout history) vs. the RC church. So they can say this creed and not have a conflict with their beliefs.

Does that help?

ok im trying, I mean i am understanding a little about the little c and the big C lets say. But im still a little confused at the big picture. I guess im stuck on the Catholic Church in the bible. That says when Jesus left the church to Peter ON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. Now im still stuck on the catholic church. I just have to let this sink in. But the way i understand they all broke away from the church. Its like saying i believe in the catholic church or Catholic Church, either way but we are right and the Catholic Church is wrong. I guess i cant see how they dont have a conflict with their beliefs. Im sorry but can you understand what im saying too.

 

[VARC]

But the way i understand they all broke away from the church…

That is a matter of perspective. The Orthodox profess that the “latins” broke away from the Church.

 

[rinnie]

That is a matter of perspective. The Orthodox profess that the “latins” broke away from the Church.

ok, Now i do not know the answer to this question, So as a Roman Catholic i guess i would have to go by what the pope says. Now the reason im saying this is because i believe that when Jesus left the church to Peter he made him the leader, Now Peter was the first Pope, So now years and years later the church still has a leader he is the pope. Now that is why i believe what i believe. All i have to back it up is the bible. and of course why my prospective is what it is. So thats why i go with the pope. Now you may not agree with me but you can understand why i feel this way right.

 

[slyboots]

Ok lets start here. Im ASKING, OK, really this is a question i am asking myself too. Let go the the Apsotles Creed. Now does every Bible agree with that. Again i am asking.

Rinnie,

Folks where I was raised were primarily fundamentalist evangelicals. And believe me they didn’t believe that “creeds” were necessary. Just the King James Bible. Anything more than that was man-made tradition.

Now having said that I could say to them, “Good grief. Who on earth do you think actually put stylus to papyrus and wrote the Bible?”
We all know that God inspired the Bible. But doggone it, humans touched it.

They might agree with you on the Apostles Creed. But the Nicene Creed…not so much. And they would say “If Jesus said it, I believe it and that settles it.” Then move from denomination to denomination, church to church looking for the congregation who believes it just as that person does.

Big deal to fundamentalist protestants is the Eucharist. They simply do not accept that it is really His body and blood from what they read.

Mary makes them stumble. She isn’t sinless (not my belief) and certainly was never “assumed into heaven.”

St Peter was “Petros, a little rock” not “Petra, a boulder or foundation stone”. And BTW where is the word Pope in the Bible? Even the Catholic Bible doesn’t use the word about him.

Bishops are supposed to be the husband of one wife. It’s there. Read for yourself.

How can they? They read it with non-Catholic bias of course.

The deal is if one wants to help non-Catholics realize the truth of the Holy Catholic Church you must bone up on apologetics. You will need the Bible for this. But more than anything you will need to pray for the Holy Spirit’s support.

 

[paidion]

rinnie:

Like VARC stated, it’s a matter of perspective. Orthodox say the Latins broke away (or departed from the true teachings of the church), Reformists say the Latin church was in err and therefore one could not remain part of a corrupt system, and so on.

For many today, I don’t believe they’re even really aware of the Church’s history nor do I think many really understand what they (themselves) really believe.

What I hear a lot of on these forums is that non-Rcs should “get with the program”, but how can one “get with” what they do not know?

 

[2ndGen]

because the bible is very open to interpretation.

Is that belief “in” The Holy Bible?

That it’s “open” for interpretation?

 

[2ndGen]

See thats what i dont understand. How can people say that they disagree with the catholic religion but believe in the catholic church.

The same way they can say that they don’t accept “everything” the Bible teches or that some things were only meant for the time that The Bible was written and some can be accepted today.

Pick and choose.

It’s called “Cafeteria Christianity”.

Or what I call “The Buffet of Beliefs”.

 

[2ndGen]

Rinnie:

Please be more specific. About what doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church are you speaking of Bible believers not believing?

I think it’s very clear…he stated not believe in “The Catholic Church”.

All of it.

 

[2ndGen]

Sorry, guess I wasn’t clear in my answer.

The answer lies in the fact that multiple denominations and peoples have re-written or re-interpreted the original Bible to suit their own agenda of defying the Catholic Church.

So, what Bible you are reading would make a difference as to whether you believed in the True Church or not.

Make sense?

Well, Unc,

Since He said The Bible, let’s just assume He’s talking about The Bible (not any “version” or “translation” or “new world edited flavor of the month inclusionary language don’t want to hurt anybody’s feelings editions”).

The Holy Bible…the “universal” Bible.

The one’s with “Imprimatur” in the publisher’s page.

 

[2ndGen]

the catholic church is the church universal (small c). The Catholic Church (capital C) is the Popes church

No, The Catholic Church is Jesus’ Church.

The catholic church is Jesus’ Church.

All other churches are “man’s” churches.

 

[2ndGen]

Rinnie,
There are many levels of belief.
If you ask me do you believe in the catholic church (as in does it exist) I will answer yes.
If you ask me if I believe in the Catholic Church (as in do I believe in the teachings etc.) The answer may be different.

As to the origional question, this also has many levels.
Protestant denominations today may or may not recognize their own roots. That is, they may simply go to the Bible and not delve into where and how their Bible came to be. These are just living in a sort of virtual-reality world where the Bible just “dropped from the sky”.

Those who do recognize and acknowledge how the Bible came to be will point to the belief that the Church got off track at some point. These may have some foundation for thier concern since at various times in history the Church excersized more than a little temporal-political power and suffered some of the corrupting effects of that power.
These denominations feel that they are reclaiming what the Church was or they believe it to be in it’s early days.

These descriptions are, of course, crude and various denominations and sects differ, but it should give you some idea,

Peace
James

Protestants aren’t even allowed to study their own religions pasts or the sins of their religious leaders.

 

[2ndGen]

rinnie:

perhaps this may help…

“Catholic church” is often used to refer to the RC church, whereas, “catholic church” describes the universal body of believers in Jesus (the Messiah)/ Son of G-d. The small “catholic” literally means “universal” - not just RC or any one particular sect, denomination, or whatever.

Therefore, when ppl recite the Apostles’ Creed, they are referring to the universal church (body of believers throughout history) vs. the RC church. So they can say this creed and not have a conflict with their beliefs.

Does that help?

Well, not the whole body of Christians…only those that recognize The Catholic Church and those that have Apostolic Succession.

The rest don’t belog to the catholic church.

 

[2ndGen]

Rinnie,

Folks where I was raised were primarily fundamentalist evangelicals. And believe me they didn’t believe that “creeds” were necessary. Just the King James Bible. Anything more than that was man-made tradition.

Now having said that I could say to them, “Good grief. Who on earth do you think actually put stylus to papyrus and wrote the Bible?”
We all know that God inspired the Bible. But doggone it, humans touched it.

They might agree with you on the Apostles Creed. But the Nicene Creed…not so much. And they would say “If Jesus said it, I believe it and that settles it.” Then move from denomination to denomination, church to church looking for the congregation who believes it just as that person does.

Big deal to fundamentalist protestants is the Eucharist. They simply do not accept that it is really His body and blood from what they read.

Mary makes them stumble. She isn’t sinless (not my belief) and certainly was never “assumed into heaven.”

St Peter was “Petros, a little rock” not “Petra, a boulder or foundation stone”. And BTW where is the word Pope in the Bible? Even the Catholic Bible doesn’t use the word about him.

Bishops are supposed to be the husband of one wife. It’s there. Read for yourself.

How can they? They read it with non-Catholic bias of course.

The deal is if one wants to help non-Catholics realize the truth of the Holy Catholic Church you must bone up on apologetics. You will need the Bible for this. But more than anything you will need to pray for the Holy Spirit’s support.

Your post shows me that the only things that Protestants knowis what they “don’t” believe in.

 

[paidion]

Well, not the whole body of Christians…only those that recognize The Catholic Church and those that have Apostolic Succession.

The rest don’t belog to the catholic church.

I wasn’t referring to what you personally believe, 2nd Gen.

I was referring to the common understanding of Catholic vs. catholic.

Like it or not, that is the common understanding…

 

[Uncle_Norbert]

Your post shows me that the only things that Protestants knowis what they “don’t” believe in.

Thus their relentless attacks on the Catholic Church and it’s members. How often do you hear a Protestant declaring his or her beliefs outright, as opposed to their declaring their beliefs against Catholics?

 

[2ndGen]

I wasn’t referring to what you personally believe, 2nd Gen.

I was referring to the common understanding of Catholic vs. catholic.

Like it or not, that is the common understanding…

I didn’t think you were talking to me personally.

I was just stating as a Christian what the common understanding was.

Small c means Christian churches that recognize The Church.

Not all non-Catholic Christians are “catholic”.

Most are, but not all. In fact, it’s just a small minority of Christians that don’t recognize The Catholic Church as “The Church”.

 

[2ndGen]

Thus their relentless attacks on the Catholic Church and it’s members. How often do you hear a Protestant declaring his or her beliefs outright, as opposed to their declaring their beliefs against Catholics?

Ain’t that the truth!

Protestants (the anti-Catholic sort) know more about what’s wrong with The Catholic Church (or “think” they do) than they know about their own church.

I love asking them who started their church. They always respond with “Jesus”. When I ask them if that’s “in” The Bible, they say it doesn’t have to be. That’s when I lean into them about Sola Scriptura and yada, yada, yada…well, you get the rest of the picture.

Their mouths drop when I whip out my Bible and they see it all tattered and with notes and highlited.

Some times, they run so fast, they leave skid marks like a getaway car leaves at the scene of a bank robbery!

 

[rinnie]

the catholic church is the church universal (small c). The Catholic Church (capital C) is the Popes church

PRICELESS. God forgive me but you have made my day. I must confess this response had me in stitches all day. I am sure you meant well and i appreciate you trying to help. And i do take this serious, but this one just struck me so funny. I guess that sometimes laughter is the best meds. I guess i have never ever heard it put that way in my life. God Bless you. But okay lets look at it another way. Now we have the Catholic Bible right, we have the Catholic Church, right. As absurd (and hillarious) as this statement is, It is true. The Catholic Church is i guess you could say the Popes church. Now how can we believe in the Catholic Church and not believe in the Pope right, Because in the bible its says there is only one church. Now i hope i can make my point come across what i am asking, On whos authority was it that the Popes church was taken away from him. If in fact it is true there are 2 Catholic Churches. Again please no disrespect, Im really trying to see things in a different point of view. Just so i can be more understanding. I just see things black and white i guess.

 

[bpbasilphx]

How can any religion, that goes by the bible not believe in the catholic church.

Orthodox might ask a similar question.

 

[iamACE]

rinnie: Because in the bible its says there is only one church. Now i hope i can make my point come across what i am asking, On whos authority was it that the Popes church was taken away from him. If in fact it is true there are 2 Catholic Churches. Again please no disrespect, Im really trying to see things in a different point of view. Just so i can be more understanding. I just see things black and white i guess.

There is only One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church rinnie. Whatever they’ll tell you, there’s only One. Whether its capital “C” or lower case “c” ‘cause both still possess’ the same meaning. Gk. “katholikos”(universal). It’s not a proper noun when we use “Catholic” than “catholic”.