Challenging Assumptions about Modesty

[MarthaSo]

I agree very much here and I must be honest, where I live in NY, what you’ve described, in the summer, is the norm. Cleavage, tights, shorts like underwear. Not in the workplace but just randomly walking outside. As God is my witness.

Maybe my memory is faltering but I just don’t remember this growing up (I’m 42) or maybe I wasn’t noticing as much.

 

[Gingersnaps4]

It’s probably a little less common where I live in the mid-south but still you can see younger people like that at the mall where I live. If you know that your clothing will turn heads and you dress with that in mind then it isn’t appropriate imo.

 

[Gingersnaps4]

Maybe my memory is faltering but I just don’t remember this growing up (I’m 42) or maybe I wasn’t noticing as much.

I am 40 and nope this wasn’t common when I was a teen or in early 20’s either.

 

[Babaganoush]

Dress how you want, but don’t be surprised when someone makes a comment. Everyone is responsible for themselves. If you dress in a way that is intended to make people look at you in a particular way, don’t be surprised when they do. You are responsible for your appearance and they are responsible for what they say.

But don’t pretend innocence. It is toxic femininity to bait a man by dressing in skimpy clothing and then to condemn him for saying something.

 

[Lea101]

You kind of contradicted yourself there? If everyone is responsible for themselves then

condemn him for saying something.

What’s wrong about being angry at someone saying inappropriate things? Since he’s completely responsible for his sin?

A better example would be someone being distracted by your body (since looking isn’t a sin), tbh. You can’t wear something distracting and expect eye contact at all times, lol

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Dress how you want, but don’t be surprised when someone makes a comment.

If you say don’t be surprised about comments then what is your response to a woman who is attractive and dressed modestly but still gets comments. How about men don’t make remarks about women, period?

 

[Lea101]

I don’t really see St Paul admitting he has a small portion of his brother’s sin though.

To be honest I don’t really understand your point because I can’t see a contradiction.

Also, while girls have been hearing this verse in modesty talks for decades, it’s worth mentioning that eating meat isn’t a sin in itself but immodesty is. If I wear lingerie in a room full of men to get some attention, but it turns out they are all asexual…I’m pretty sure God is going to want to have a little chat with me. We shouldn’t be going against the virtue of modesty in general (modesty is much more than avoiding lust, which I’m sure you know already tbh).

God will smile at people making an effort to prevent others from sinning, but I’m sure he won’t smile at a guy saying he’s only 95% responsible for a sin. In God’s eyes we are all responsible for what we do (see Adam and Eve).

 

[MarthaSo]

I actually think St. Paul makes that point explicitly clear. And actually I’m not sure I have a problem with someone being 95% responsible vs 100% if someone caused them to stumble with sin, but I trust Gods judgment on that as I wouldn’t want to say anything definitive without knowing 100% especially since scripture touches upon it, even the one with Adam and Eve as you rightly pointed out.

Also I agree God may not smile at a guy saying he was 95% but that doesn’t take away from what I stated He would smile at. I believe they are two separate points.

Yes we are all responsible like Adam and Eve and also the serpent was punished for tempting. Genesis 3:14 states to the tempter serpent “because YOU have done this”. Done what? Caused Adam and Eve to sin.

 

[Babaganoush]

Then we will have no relationships between men and women and consequently humanity will cease to exist. Women want the right to be offended by anything a man says, but they also want to be pursued. Women expect men to make the move, and then they want to criticize anything he says that might be slightly awkward or even inappropriate. They even want to criticize the fact that he said anything at all. It doesn’t matter if it was inappropriate.

 

[Lea101]

You seem to be bothered about women in general rather than focusing on the topic at hand here.

Women want the right to be offended by anything a man says, but they also want to be pursued

Women are not offended by anything, just inappropriate comments made. You can pursue a woman without making sexual comments for example.

Women expect men to make the move, and then they want to criticize anything he says that might be slightly awkward or even inappropriate. They even want to criticize the fact that he said anything at all

…yeah you’re just angry at women.

 

[Babaganoush]

What is an inappropriate comment? According to some feminists, any comment at all is inappropriate. A compliment is inappropriate.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Then we will have no relationships between men and women and consequently humanity will cease to exist.

Because men stop making rude comments about women (no matter what they are wearing)?

Women want the right to be offended by anything a man says, but they also want to be pursued.

Women do not have a hive mind. Do you really think women want those things and at the same time. Oooookay.

Women expect men to make the move, and then they want to criticize anything he says that might be slightly awkward or even inappropriate.

Ixnay making statement like all women think the same way, even the part about criticizing what’s inappropriate as I’ve seen women defend inappropriate behavior. But I will criticize inappropriate anything a man says or does while interacting with me. Criticizing awkward stuff can be mean but it can be an act of charity if done right.

They even want to criticize the fact that he said anything at all. It doesn’t matter if it was inappropriate.

I see what the problem is now. Never mind.

 

[Babaganoush]

I’m not angry at anyone. I’m talking about the topic at hand. You’re offended that men dare to look and say something to an attractive woman who dresses skimpy. I never said anything about sexual comments, and neither did the post I was responding to.

You seem to think everything is one way here. Men use women and women are poor victims.i tend to believe that it is more realistic that men and women are both users. Women dress the way they do for a reason.

 

[Lea101]

It was women just now. Now it’s ‘some feminists’? Anyway, you’re exaggerating. The most annoying and militant feminist I know wouldn’t be angry at every single comment.

Honestly, so what if there’s some feminists who foam at the mouth at anything a guy says? A large majority of women don’t get offended over ‘anything’.

What is an inappropriate comment?

A sexual comment is the most basic answer. ‘You like Gun and Roses? Cool t shirt’ would be better received than ‘nice a**’. Most of the time these comments are made by strangers about their sex appeal. Anyone with half a mind would be uncomfortable at that!

But what can be inappropriate can be dependent on the context. My doctor calling me beautiful would be inappropriate, but a guy at a gathering wouldn’t be inappropriate for giving me a compliment in a conversation for example.

Also just don’t comment on a random woman on a street. Most catcallers aren’t trying to develop a relationship with a woman, they know they aren’t going to see her again in the first place.

 

[Lea101]

Yes you’re angry. You were just complaining about women in general being offended at anything.

Everything about your post is a sad generalization that seems to be crafted by a radfem’s perception of a disgruntled guy.

You’re offended that men dare to look and say something to an attractive woman who dresses skimpy.

Say something? Do you think I’ll cry if a guy says ‘hello where’s the bathroom’ to me if I’m wearing a bikini

You seem to think everything is one way here. Men use women and women are poor victims

More generalizations and assumptions. You’re honestly angry at something and you’re using assumptions about me and women to vent. Not an abnormal reaction, but honestly take a breath.

Edit: you asked what was an inappropriate comment, so I responded ‘sexual comments’. This conversation would be a lot more helpful for you if you simply tell me this innocent non sexual comment you think all/most women are unnecessarily angry over, instead of acting like anything you might say is wrong tbh. And we can explain why that may be inappropriate or if it isn’t, that the woman you said it to was just crazy.

 

[LateCatholic]

Many smart male bosses in today’s environment would avoid meeting with a woman “alone”.

The point is that if you won;t meet with a woman alone, but you will meet with a man alone, you are SEXIST. You must refuse to meet alone with BOTH a woman and a man. Then you’re good. Pence ONLY refused to meet with women alone. This is the problem. He is in a position of great power, and treats women differently. It puts women in an unfair position because he is a man and in a position of power. That is the root of sexism.

 

[Socrates92]

Hmm, the scripture you chose doesn’t exactly prove your point. When did adultery become solely the sin of one of the parties?

 

[Lea101]

Jesus was talking about lust (private thoughts) rather than the physical act that would require two people to do it though? That is a pretty radical thing to say back then and even now tbh!

The former would involve one person because the woman may have no idea that a person is even looking at her

 

[DarkLight]

The former would involve one person because the woman may have no idea that a person is even looking at her

And let’s be honest, there are men out there who will lust simply by having a woman in their field of vision. I don’t recall the harassment, when I lived in a not-so-good area, abating in winter. And believe me it was COLD, I guarantee I looked more like a walking clothing golem than anything else.

 

[blackforest]

It’s just hard to know peoples’ intentions.

Sometimes short skirts and a tank top just mean that it’s bloomin’ hot outside, not that I’m out to seduce every man on the sidewalk.