Challenging Assumptions about Modesty

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Some people judge us as immodest and “trying to look sexy” while others just judge us as “fat.” Either way, it doesn’t feel much like a compliment. 🤨
 
Slight pet peeve - those are lovely dresses, but it often seems the examples of “modest clothing” all end up in that same style - long, flowing, soft sort of pastel dresses. I’d say the below are also modest, they’re just not what tends to be highlighted as traditional feminine style, especially within christian circles.
Now this is more what I'd wear
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Or there's casual
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And workwear, of varying formality
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alice24 said:
Fishing for compliments seem to be the wrong proverb, but I mean more a matte way of complaining with the result of forming a female Christian Identity, in the way of " real Catholic women have curves".
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Honestly, I think you’re reading too much into this. A better approach would be to clarify intentions with questions, e.g. "Are you saying that . . . " or “Do you believe that . . . ?”
 
DarkLight said:
Slight pet peeve - those are lovely dresses, but it often seems the examples of “modest clothing” all end up in that same style - long, flowing, soft sort of pastel dresses.
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This is true. I wasn’t trying to give a complete over-all look at everything that could be considered modest but was more addressing the “curvier woman” issue by comparing the difference between a modest dress in which you can still tell that it is a woman’s body and what some deem as modest in which one has to hide or minimize that they are actually a woman.

I agree that all of your examples are quite modest and would be appropriate in various times, places and activities. I’m not a fan of pastels myself and my closet is very gray, navy blue, black, olive green and burgundy with a few lighter colors thrown in.
 
mrsdizzyd said:
Might you consider that what you are expressing here is your personal preferences/dislike regarding the “real women have curves campaign”? None of us have referenced that campaign or a need to see women of all body types referenced in Catholic popular media (which is what the real women have curves movement was about: popular media).
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Yes, this may be true. I think I feel sometimes a bit strange in this discussions because the posts reflect often - for me, maybe just in my mind - some sort of catholic “real women have curves” campaign. Apologizes when I have a weak point here or am overreacting 😉 First one asks what modesty is, after that people tend to say a) whatever your culture says, or b) wearing covered clothing. Then women start saying they feel judged by the “modesty crew” because their curves are visible (which is perfectly fine) but then, in my eyes, starts often a broad discussion about those curves every catholic woman seem to have. The last step seems to be, in my feel, some way of solidarity with each other.
 
Elizabeth3 said:
These are an attempt to hide that one is a woman which gives the message that women’s bodies are “bad.”
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I get your point, but I think we have to be careful not to presume the motives of other people.

I have exactly zero interest in wearing a jumper, but if someone wants to wear them because they think they are modest, they like them, they think they are comfortable, and/or they consider them very practical, I will not begrudge them that option or criticize them for making that choice.

I simply don’t want to be made to feel that I HAVE TO dress one particular way in order to be modest when I know that there are many different modest styles available.
 
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mrsdizzyd said:
I think we have to be careful not to presume the motives of other people.
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Of course. There is nothing wrong with jumpers per se. However, there is a certain brand of modesty culture that promotes that “sack dress” look as the only acceptable one in which women can protect men from temptation.
 
It’s not exactly fishing for compliments.

The point is that the classic female hourglass figure will always be alluring to men even if every inch of skin is covered up. Some women will have more of a challenge hiding their curves than others.

That is the point I and I’m sure others here are trying to convey.
 
LateCatholic said:
Pence doesn’t want to be alone because he can’t handle the temptation, so he therefore treats women differently - to their detriment.
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I really doubt that’s the reason. I’m sure it’s to avoid being in a situation where someone could allege that something inappropriate occurred.
 
Elizabeth3 said:
This is true. I wasn’t trying to give a complete over-all look at everything that could be considered modest but was more addressing the “curvier woman” issue by comparing the difference between a modest dress in which you can still tell that it is a woman’s body and what some deem as modest in which one has to hide or minimize that they are actually a woman.
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I think it took me til college to realize there were clothing options other than “tomboy”, “pastel floral”, and “barely dressed.” Which admittedly may be in part a testament to my observational skills. So I like to highlight that there’s a variety of ways individual women look that are still modest. Lots of us aren’t the stereotypical girlie-girl.
 
Yep. I’m quite modest in a not-too-tight/not-too-loose black tee and jeans today. Modesty really doesn’t have anything to do with whether the clothes are girly-girl or not.

[Edited to add]

There is also another brand of modesty culture that rejects the “sack dress” look but heavily promotes pretty “feminine dress” (as in only dresses/skirts, very feminine hairstyles, dainty shoes, tasteful jewelry etc) as THE way to truly be a woman. I’m not against dressing up in elegant girly styles but I truly live in my jeans and tees on ordinary days and really am not into mincing around the house in pumps trying to clean the bathtub or scoop the litter box.
 
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This is a slippery thing, because what’s modest in one culture/situation is wildly inappropriate in another. I have always used a subjective standard of modesty. Instead of worrying about what I should or shouldn’t wear, I ask the question: in the situation at hand, will the manner of my dress going draw attention to my body? If so, is it the type of attention I will be looking for (for example, a nonverbal expression of respect for an occasion) or not (for example, attempting to be sexually provocative or “virtue signal”)?

Looking at it this way can mean that I find even head coverings and long skirts can be immodest. If you’re dressing that way to prove how virtuous you are (“look at me! I’m being ultra modest!”), in a way it’s just as bad as wearing a string bikini (“look at me! I’m sexy!”). Your manner of dress shouldn’t draw attention to yourself except for providing a mild non-verbal expression.

My go-to “look” is properly fitted (i.e., not tight and not loose) jeans or slacks, a t-shirt with a high collar, and a cardigan. It’s comfortable and if I have to climb under a table, I won’t have to worry about what might inadvertently show. At the same time, it doesn’t show much more about my body than the fact that it’s female as opposed to male.
 
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sonria said:
Looking at it this way can mean that I find even head coverings and long skirts can be immodest. If you’re dressing that way to prove how virtuous you are (“look at me! I’m being ultra modest!”), in a way it’s just as bad as wearing a string bikini (“look at me! I’m sexy!”). Your manner of dress shouldn’t draw attention to yourself except for providing a mild non-verbal expression.
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Considering that modesty = humility, this is an excellent point.
 
Modesty varies from one person to another, showing a significant amount of skin can be considered immodest to other cultures.

During important religious gatherings, it is safe to wear something like thishttps://www.bokitta.com/clothing/blue-butti-umrah-set-3-pcs.html
 
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"just as bad as wearing a string bikini (“look at me! I’m sexy!”). " Wearing a string bikini is bad. Speaking generally, opinions don’t matter. Just think of what Jesus would think if you wore whatever you wear and stood next to Him.
 
LateCatholic said:
Side note - I was shocked when Vice President Pence said he never meets with a woman alone, as the temptation to commit adultery would be too great. He won’t drink alcohol near a woman without his wife. This INCLUDES treating his staff members differently if they are female
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Uhm, I think this is a very self-preservative attitude to take in this day and age, when anyone can turn around and accuse someone of something unsavory and they are immediately assumed guilty in the eyes of the public…So, yeah, I give him credit for being smart enough not to let himself be put in situations where the PERCEPTION could be negative. I don’t think he’s afraid he’ll sin, he’s afraid people will assume he is sinning. But that’s just my 2 cents.
 
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