Change of heart on socialized medicine

  • Thread starter Thread starter royal_archer
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
pathia said:
Unless it was a teaching hospital for advanced endocrinology, there isn’t much med students coul ddo for me. I am not qualified for medicaid, or medicare. The manufacturers of my medications state that I make too much money to apply to their charity programs. The only way I could get care in the states is to quit my job and go on disability, removing myself from the workforce entirely. I refuse to do that, I can work, I shouldn’t have to become a complete leech on society to get care, it doesn’t make any sense.
Click to expand...
So you see how the welfare system is set up to force people in further dependency.
 
royal_archer said:
So you see how the welfare system is set up to force people in further dependency.
Click to expand...
Of course, there’s sort of two humps, in ‘having things’ in US society. If you have NO income, you get a bunch of free stuff, but if you have a little bit of income, you get some things, if you have a little more than that, you get NOTHING, but can’t afford anything else. There’s a pit, that you have to climb out of, I scrabble at the edge of the pit, never able to get out, hence why I am leaving.
 
Shoshana said:
Code:
The people that go to the states have the money to do so. That is not the norm, for sure. I would rather bear with a little so that EVERYONE gets care and no one is excluded for lack of money depending on what insurance you carry. Or, whatever the insurance does not cover to have to mortgage your house so that you can afford to have a dozen surgeries in you rlife that are all life-threatening! Or a hundred stays in the hospital throughout a span of twenty years!

Do we really want to go on the internet to show the horrors for the US about their health care? Because a lot here saying that it is all roses in the US. But, boy or boy somany have lost jobs and their insurance dropped them like they had the plague. A doctor had a whole warehouse iwth 200 doctors and 300 nurses for those who could get the care for whatever reason…and this in the US! Lives are a little bit more precious than a system that is overlooing so many…from simple gallbladder to heart surgery to cancer!

If only we could learn from each other…but it is the continual arrogance that is always portrayed here. The arrogance that says ‘WE KNOW BETTER!’ When there are many who are left behind.

You have a job? Good! You have insurance? Good! But there are hordes of people who have lsot their job here and in the US…is it their fault? Where is the dignity when a person is in so much pain but cannot get care because her hsuband makes just enough that Medicaid is not available but they have no money because they live from paycheque to paycheque!

Line-ups we have…but i have not experienced it. Our emergencies are getting clogged now because they have closed very small hospital emergencies. One needs to go to the bigger hospitals and wait. I have never had problems with either, and catscans are done right away when I am in the hospital…of ocurse it depends on th eemergency…

Anyway, this is so sad! It won’t be too much longer where it won’t matter. Both countries will crash!
Click to expand...
No one argues that the system can not be improved. But that does not mean we just randomely change things and hope they work. To pursue the canadian system here would only make things worse. Medical care is only a part of a social system. The changes that would convert the health system to a welfare system would significantly impact the free market capitalist aspects of our ecconomy that have made the US the envy of the world. Keep in mind over 45 Million would rather live here with out health care than anywhere else in the world.
 
pathia said:
Of course, there’s sort of two humps, in ‘having things’ in US society. If you have NO income, you get a bunch of free stuff, but if you have a little bit of income, you get some things, if you have a little more than that, you get NOTHING, but can’t afford anything else. There’s a pit, that you have to climb out of, I scrabble at the edge of the pit, never able to get out, hence why I am leaving.
Click to expand...
That is because the policians know you are easier to manipulate if you are completely dependent on them.
 
royal_archer said:
That is because the policians know you are easier to manipulate if you are completely dependent on them.
Click to expand...
But if we had no social programs what so ever, I would have frozen to death. Remember, religious based homeless shelters turned me away, if there was no secular or government housing, I would probably not have survived my homeless episode.
 
royal_archer said:
See there are options for those who can not pay for health care.
Click to expand...
Code:
Well…see…this is only for check ups on the whole. THIS WAS ONLY ONE TIME THINGIE! There was a family of 5 children who were checked out and the baby, who was only 1 yr old, had to have to have HEART SURGERY! This family could not even afford to go to the doctor’s, never mind. Dr Oz arranged to have the surgery done for free as she would have died in another 2 years!

I admire this greatly…I admire the doctors and the nurses who volunteered their time and expertise. But they can’t do this every day as they need to work also. It should not have to be this way. It should not be that the people are full of anxiety because they can’t see a doctor because they have been dropped like the plague. It seems like these people were in Africa for heaven’s sake. That baby would be dead and the rest of the family survives on over the counter medicine! WOW!

And you don’t care?
 
royal_archer said:
No one argues that the system can not be improved. But that does not mean we just randomely change things and hope they work. To pursue the canadian system here would only make things worse. Medical care is only a part of a social system. The changes that would convert the health system to a welfare system would significantly impact the free market capitalist aspects of our ecconomy that have made the US the envy of the world. Keep in mind over 45 Million would rather live here with out health care than anywhere else in the world.
Click to expand...
Code:
You may think that the world envies the US>>>>>>🤷
 
Ella said:
Shoshana, despite the world wide web, we in the U.S. are still very insulated from the rest of the world.
Click to expand...
In the case of a certain few who have posted in this thread that even applies more so,because they are wrapped up in the business world, which blinds them to real life in general. They wwill believe some statistic over a real person.:mad:😦
 
aspawloski4th said:
In the case of a certain few who have posted in this thread that even applies more so,because they are wrapped up in the business world, which blinds them to real life in general. They wwill believe some statistic over a real person.:mad:😦
Click to expand...
My guess is you are talking about royal archer. But just in case, you might want to know that I am a stay at home, home schooling mom. Haven’t been in the business world for 14 years.

And you might want to know, real people lie. And if they aren’t lying, the represent one person. Unless you plan to speak to every person in the US or every person that has Public Health, you need to look at statistics.
 
maryjk said:
My guess is you are talking about royal archer. But just in case, you might want to know that I am a stay at home, home schooling mom. Haven’t been in the business world for 14 years.

And you might want to know, real people lie. And if they aren’t lying, the represent one person. Unless you plan to speak to every person in the US or every person that has Public Health, you need to look at statistics.
Click to expand...
Liars figure and figures lie was one of the best lessons my parents taught me. On other issues Iv’e been on the bad end of lieing fugures before. Ill trust real people anyday. Better yet, if I go to Canada myself someday, I trust my own 20/15 vision eyes over anything else. I do not and will not put trust in statistics. Burn me once shame on you burn me twice shame on me.
 
maryjk said:
My guess is you are talking about royal archer. But just in case, you might want to know that I am a stay at home, home schooling mom. Haven’t been in the business world for 14 years.

And you might want to know, real people lie. And if they aren’t lying, the represent one person. Unless you plan to speak to every person in the US or every person that has Public Health, you need to look at statistics.
Click to expand...
Yes I was speaking of RA and not you. With the way RA talks about business you’d think they can do no wrong if they wanted to. I ripoff somebody, I’m evil, business ripoffs somebody, they are just trying to make a profit. He doesn’t like it because I called him on the double standard.
 
There’s a difference between it being bad and it being illegal. See drinking and smoking. Legally companies shouldn’t be allowed to “rip you off” in the sense they don’t give you what you pay for. Same thing applies to you. You want us to give you want you haven’t paid for (in work). But if by “rip you off” you mean charge more than you can afford for services you want/need, then they have the right to do that. I don’t think they should be required by law to cover people. Do I think morally they should charge outrageous prices, no. But moral is different than legal. This is something you don’t seem to be able to grasp. You can’t make everything bad illegal.

Speaking of double standards, you want to rip us off, but it’s not okay if business does it.

We have offered other solutions, which you have ignored. You really only care about yourself. We’re trying to help others, without losing that which is rightfully ours. You don’t care whether or not we can do the things we like to do, but you insist you should have health care paid for so you can have money for the things you like to do.

As to seeing for yourself. All the people I see the situations can live with the way things are now. The way I see it, things are fine. The people I know may not like living without health care, but it isn’t hurting them. Actually it’s helping them because they are more careful about their health.

Would you define “real people”? I’m a real person and in my experience the United States health care system works. I have seen posts by people from Canada who claim it is bad there. They are real people. So who’s opinion counts? Only those who agree with your assessment? In that case you don’t really care about the truth.
 
Arwen037 said:
As to seeing for yourself. All the people I see the situations can live with the way things are now. The way I see it, things are fine. The people I know may not like living without health care, but it isn’t hurting them. Actually it’s helping them because they are more careful about their health.
Click to expand...
There is nothing to be careful about for some, some of us just live in constant unending pain. I’m up to 2800mg of ibuprofen a day, since it is OTC, I can afford it but I dare not go any higher as it will start damaging my liver and stomach. What I really need, I simply can’t afford, or isn’t even approved in the US in some cases. There is nothing to be ‘careful’ about, I know what I need, but I can’t get it, because I can’t afford it and I hurt too much to work enough to be able to afford it, it’s an endless cycle of pain and futility. Without some of the things I need, my life is drastically reduced. I have osteoporosis for example, but I’m only 29.

Within a month of moving into another country, I will have access to things I haven’t had ever in my life. Exactly how is this to be considered ‘good’? All the current system has done is make me work hard, to leave the country.
 
Arwen037 said:
There’s a difference between it being bad and it being illegal. See drinking and smoking. Legally companies shouldn’t be allowed to “rip you off” in the sense they don’t give you what you pay for. Same thing applies to you. You want us to give you want you haven’t paid for (in work). But if by “rip you off” you mean charge more than you can afford for services you want/need, then they have the right to do that. I don’t think they should be required by law to cover people. Do I think morally they should charge outrageous prices, no. But moral is different than legal. This is something you don’t seem to be able to grasp. You can’t make everything bad illegal.

Speaking of double standards, you want to rip us off, but it’s not okay if business does it.

We have offered other solutions, which you have ignored. You really only care about yourself. We’re trying to help others, without losing that which is rightfully ours. You don’t care whether or not we can do the things we like to do, but you insist you should have health care paid for so you can have money for the things you like to do.

As to seeing for yourself. All the people I see the situations can live with the way things are now. The way I see it, things are fine. The people I know may not like living without health care, but it isn’t hurting them. Actually it’s helping them because they are more careful about their health.

Would you define “real people”? I’m a real person and in my experience the United States health care system works. I have seen posts by people from Canada who claim it is bad there. They are real people. So who’s opinion counts? Only those who agree with your assessment? In that case you don’t really care about the truth.
Click to expand...
By that definition we should get rid of emergency rooms. People can’t afford healthcare, problem they have festers till it gets bad, then they go to the emergency room where they don’t pay, now thats a ripoff. I’m not ripping you off because you put in and take out of the same pot too, if this goes through.
 
Arwen037 said:
There’s a difference between it being bad and it being illegal. See drinking and smoking. Legally companies shouldn’t be allowed to “rip you off” in the sense they don’t give you what you pay for. Same thing applies to you. You want us to give you want you haven’t paid for (in work). But if by “rip you off” you mean charge more than you can afford for services you want/need, then they have the right to do that. I don’t think they should be required by law to cover people. Do I think morally they should charge outrageous prices, no. But moral is different than legal. This is something you don’t seem to be able to grasp. You can’t make everything bad illegal.

Speaking of double standards, you want to rip us off, but it’s not okay if business does it.

We have offered other solutions, which you have ignored. You really only care about yourself. We’re trying to help others, without losing that which is rightfully ours. You don’t care whether or not we can do the things we like to do, but you insist you should have health care paid for so you can have money for the things you like to do.

As to seeing for yourself. All the people I see the situations can live with the way things are now. The way I see it, things are fine. The people I know may not like living without health care, but it isn’t hurting them. Actually it’s helping them because they are more careful about their health.

Would you define “real people”? I’m a real person and in my experience the United States health care system works. I have seen posts by people from Canada who claim it is bad there. They are real people. So who’s opinion counts? Only those who agree with your assessment? In that case you don’t really care about the truth.
Click to expand...
You experience it working maybee because your clientelle are well off. Or they have cases that are obvious enough for insurance to have no way out of paying. You have not offered solutions. you just complain about the ideas being proposed guarenteed not to work.
 
It seems some people here either want the ultimate healthcare reform or none at all. all or none rarely works in the real world. If I got all I want. there would be insurance company policy makers, as well as those who make decisions on whether an individual’s need being covered who woud be publically hung for all to see, till their carcas falls out of the noose. But no matter who is in charge that isn’t going to happen, so I don’t bring that up as a way to deal with things. The ideal I see being promoted by the other side here is very close to Lazezfaire captitalism. Let you all in on something, even the Acton institute is very against Lazezfaire. 100 years ago I could even be fore Lazezfair as opposed to all out socialism. Today I trust hardly anyone. The current system today has been milked by payoffs for CEOs and other policy makers at the cost of lives of people in many cases who worked their fanny off just to get nothing. CEo’s making millions doesn’t serve a faunction, all it doe’s is take ,money out of the econemy to could well be used for usefull pourposes. Ultimately for me to be for a totally non socialist system a big thing that is not about to happen has to happen. The Federal Reserve has to be abolished totally, money has to be minted by the treasury, backed by gold and or silver. Untill that very important principle happens, I have to be pragmatic.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top