Change of heart on socialized medicine

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royal_archer said:
Did I say that starting your own charity would solve everything??? No, I said it woule help. It is a creitical element
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So, you’re saying a critical element for health care for people in need is for them all to form charities and beg…
royal_archer said:
along with reducing regulations that drive up costs, reducing the number of free loaders, and individual efforts.
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It’s the free loaders that’s the problem. Those dang free loaders.
royal_archer said:
While so many idolize foriegn welfare systems so few are willing to participate in them. 85% of the country like the current system. You have a small group that is trying to destroy that even though they have the option to move to a country with such a system.
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Idolize? Quoting facts is not idolizing. Germany exists right now. France, Switzerland exist right now, they’re covering all of their population for less money per capita than we do. The U.S. can do it too, and do it better!
royal_archer said:
If Germany’s system is so fair why doesn’t pathia buy a policy there?
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Pathia is trying to leave. Kinda like beating the dust off of her sandals, rather than waiting for the crumbs off of our tables. God bless Pathia.
 
apromisemade said:
And you must’ve missed the part where I said suggesting someone start a charity to take care of their own medical needs is pretty sillly…
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So do you feel it is more effective to interact in a discussion forum that it is to try to get a charity going? As far as I am concerned: Even if one dollar were raised in an attempt to start a charity it would be more effective that surfing social networking groups.
apromisemade said:
Socialized medicine would cost no more than the money that is spent on emergency room care and drastic procedures that are the result of people not having the money to have regular doctors checkups…
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You ar e presuming that allowing people to skip out on their emergency room and other medical bills is acceptable. I feel these people need to be held accountable (to some degree) for these bills. (garnish wages, sieze luxury possessions, etc.)
apromisemade said:
That has got to be one the most illogical, hypocritical, senseless, heartless, arrogant, ignorant, patronizing statements I have ever heard in my life. :eek:.
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But what I proposed there is nothing more than what is being proposed by the left: a shell game moving money from one group to another.
apromisemade said:
You don’t consider someone who is seventy years old and living with health problems or a woman living below the poverty line while trying to raise a child to *needy? * Who *does *match you definition of needy praytell?

And by the way, impoverished does not equal unemployed, quite the contrary actually in many cases. Nor does it automatically equal unemployed but to lazy to get a job. I will not even speak to your suggestion to put the elderly back to work…
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Why are you bringing up a 70 year old? Why not consider the numerous people who retire early who could still work but take an early retirement because they know the government will pick up the tab for their medical care or other expenses? what about the working poor who keeps going to work because that is how the medical insurance bills will get paid? Socialized medicine will only encourage more people to drop out of productive jobs and rest on the government. As for the mother below the poverty line, why isn’t the father being held accountable for those bills?
apromisemade said:
…in fact, I will not even speak to you period anymore on this thread. This ludicrous statement has proven that, in the words of a Massachusetts Senator, “trying to have a converstation with you would be like trying to argue with a dining room table.”
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No doubt my ideas are more progressive than the norm and those with closed or narrow minds will have a hard time accepting them.
 
royal_archer said:
Either she is willing to accept the debt and try to pay it back or is trying to get something for nothing. Shat other posssible point is there?
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First she is trying to save her life, and second that debt is IMPOSSIBLE to pay off. If she was trying to get a sailboat for free then you’d have an arguement.
 
royal_archer said:
See… problem solved.
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The solution is for all people like me to move out of the country? I don’t do this lightly, Sir, and no one else should have to LEAVE THE COUNTRY OF THEIR BIRTH to get care, when that country is the supposed leader of the flippin free world.

You do realize, that the way to get there with my debt, is I am going to have claim asylum, like a refuge, right? I will be a refuge, from the good ole US of A.
 
Ella said:
Idolize? Quoting facts is not idolizing. Germany exists right now. France, Switzerland exist right now, they’re covering all of their population for less money per capita than we do. The U.S. can do it too, and do it better!
.
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I’m all ears on ways to reduce actual costs. I’m just not a fan of the big shell game.

It would be nice to see some apple to apple comparisons. For instance a patient with a broken leg (not a compound fracture) what is the cost to X-ray spint/cast, follow up,cast removal. If it cost $1000 here in the US but $700 in germany then we may be able learn something. If it costs $1000 but $900 in germany but they don’t do follow up xrays then it isn’t an apple to apple comparison but we may still learn something. If it costs $1000 for a human but $200 for a dog in the US we may also learn something. (Lets say the vet reads the xray himself but the doctor sends it off to a specialist to verify the crack before setting the cast. Maybe we allow the doctors more leaway in reading the Xray and only bring in the specialist as required.)
 
pathia said:
The solution is for all people like me to move out of the country? I don’t do this lightly, Sir.
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I think he is looking for ways to make darn sure everyone has a finanacial challenge in their lives. Which quite frankly is something so bad I can’t say it here. if you can’t pay you can’t pay! You are putting a dollar value on life, which puts you at odds with nearly every Christian authority out there. Pathia shouldn’t have to go to a new land full of strangers and a language she doesn’t know how to speak in order to save her life.
 
aspawloski4th said:
First she is trying to save her life, and second that debt is IMPOSSIBLE to pay off. If she was trying to get a sailboat for free then you’d have an arguement.
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So let’s say that the debt is “impossible to pay off” then that debt should remain on the books and collection agencies should be able to try to collect. If she wins the lottery or other wise come into money, she should be forced to turn that money over to pay those debts. I didn’t advocate armed thugs going to people houses to collect the money. (Although those who advocate tax funded schemes are indirectly advocating armed thugs going to peoples homes to collect the tax money!)
 
pathia said:
The solution is for all people like me to move out of the country? I don’t do this lightly, Sir, and no one else should have to LEAVE THE COUNTRY OF THEIR BIRTH to get care, when that country is the supposed leader of the flippin free world.

You do realize, that the way to get there with my debt, is I am going to have claim asylum, like a refuge, right? I will be a refuge, from the good ole US of A.
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Your anger should be targeted at all of the free loaders who consume the vast amount of charity that you should be recieving.
 
royal_archer said:
So let’s say that the debt is “impossible to pay off” then that debt should remain on the books and collection agencies should be able to try to collect. If she wins the lottery or other wise come into money, she should be forced to turn that money over to pay those debts. I didn’t advocate armed thugs going to people houses to collect the money. (Although those who advocate tax funded schemes are indirectly advocating armed thugs going to peoples homes to collect the tax money!)
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It happens all the time. We have two different priorities here. mine is the health of the patient, and yours is the money involved.
 
royal_archer said:
Your anger should be targeted at all of the free loaders who consume the vast amount of charity that you should be recieving.
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It isn’t a direct connection. While freeloaders shouldnt get anything, there are moreimportant priorities than that. I sugest you never own a retail outlet. You’d be so paranoid over shoplifters stealing that 2 dollar item that you would spend 2000 dollars keeping it from getting shoplifted.
 
aspawloski4th said:
I think he is looking for ways to make darn sure everyone has a finanacial challenge in their lives. Which quite frankly is something so bad I can’t say it here. if you can’t pay you can’t pay! You are putting a dollar value on life, which puts you at odds with nearly every Christian authority out there. Pathia shouldn’t have to go to a new land full of strangers and a language she doesn’t know how to speak in order to save her life.
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What is wrong with a financial challenge? especially if the financial situation results from a bennefit you received. I am not putting a dolar value on another persons life. I will put a dollar value on mine (not a litteral calculation but I do frequently make life expectancy vs costs decisions frequently)

It is common to move to a place that is better able to deal with your medical condition. If I had third Degree burns over most of my body or needed a heart transplant I wouldn’t hesitate going to a hospital that was better adapted to deal with those situations. Pathia is the victim of an unusual condition and likewise her first priority should be to go to the place that is best equiped to deal with that condition.
 
royal_archer said:
What is wrong with a financial challenge? especially if the financial situation results from a bennefit you received. I am not putting a dolar value on another persons life. I will put a dollar value on mine (not a litteral calculation but I do frequently make life expectancy vs costs decisions frequently)

It is common to move to a place that is better able to deal with your medical condition. If I had third Degree burns over most of my body or needed a heart transplant I wouldn’t hesitate going to a hospital that was better adapted to deal with those situations. Pathia is the victim of an unusual condition and likewise her first priority should be to go to the place that is best equiped to deal with that condition.
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The USA is equipped to do it. She just isn’t being allowed access to it.
 
royal_archer said:
What is wrong with a financial challenge? especially if the financial situation results from a bennefit you received. I am not putting a dolar value on another persons life. I will put a dollar value on mine (not a litteral calculation but I do frequently make life expectancy vs costs decisions frequently)

It is common to move to a place that is better able to deal with your medical condition. If I had third Degree burns over most of my body or needed a heart transplant I wouldn’t hesitate going to a hospital that was better adapted to deal with those situations. Pathia is the victim of an unusual condition and likewise her first priority should be to go to the place that is best equiped to deal with that condition.
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Chaalenges don’t serve a function. They only serve to hinder things and stress out situations. Nobody needs to justify theiur existance to you or me.
 
aspawloski4th said:
It happens all the time. We have two different priorities here. mine is the health of the patient, and yours is the money involved.
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No, My priority is at a level higher than money or health. It is a matter of integrity. We should not harm others in the pusuit of our personal interests regarless of how emotionally stiring our intersts may be.

During the Revolution, some of our soldiers were marching barefoot in the snow to go to battle. The main driver was that they also saw things that were more important than money or health. I am sorry if you can’t comprehend that.
 
aspawloski4th said:
Chaalenges don’t serve a function. They only serve to hinder things and stress out situations. Nobody needs to justify theiur existance to you or me.
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I have never asked anyone to justify their existence period. Why are you asking me to justify what I am doing with the resources that have been entrusted to me?
 
royal_archer said:
No, My priority is at a level higher than money or health. It is a matter of integrity. We should not harm others in the pusuit of our personal interests regarless of how emotionally stiring our intersts may be.

During the Revolution, some of our soldiers were marching barefoot in the snow to go to battle. The main driver was that they also saw things that were more important than money or health. I am sorry if you can’t comprehend that.
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That was their choice, You are putting money over her health. while legally you have a right to do, morally and ethically you dont.
 
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