Change of heart on socialized medicine

[Arwen037]

I have had posts ignored also. It seems when I get the heart of the matter, defective monatary system, many suddenly clam up. By the way right brain based anything would be proper for me. I am totally lefthanded.

Being left handed has NOTHING to do with being right brained or left brained. Yes, the right side of the brain controls the left hand, but that’s not being right brained.

Tell me, how should we go back to the gold standard? Do you have a plan on how that can be implemented? And just because it’s defective doesn’t mean you can just print money. If you think we can just print money to pay off our debts YOU don’t understand the economy. One of my best friends is in business (he’s a democrat), I’ve heard all these lectures on the economy.

Blue cross is popular because Employers like it. I have yet to see a real emplyee that likes it. Blue cross wouldn’t cover my orthodics after telling me they would. It took it a letter from a lawyer(friend of mine) for them to decide to cover it. breaking promises, very naughty

.

I liked Blue Cross. I had them for my health insurance for… 18 years. I think we had one problem with them, that got worked out.

Putting time in a for profit busniness does not constitute being a contributing memeber of society.

It does when you’re paying taxes.

How Christian, never mind Catholic, is that?

How Christian, never mind Catholic, is it to demand that others support you? I don’t think we have any saints who are renown for getting tax laws passed so others had to support them.

 

[aspawloski4th]

If you don’t understand the printing of money you dont understand how the econemy and budgets have been run in the last 50 years. Even Rush Limbaugh uses the line when Republicans run defecits that to pay of the debt someday " they will roll the presses" . With no tangable basis for currency the amount that can be out there is not finite and always varies widely. The money is defective, you mights as well get what you can out of it There is no way oney can be brought back to a sound system. In 1963 Then presedent Kennedy in an atempt to bring us along the correct tract monatarily had the treasury start printing silver certificates to be a part of currecy. Te denomination he started with was 5 dollars. After Kennedy was assinated, on the way to inauguration( obviously yet before he was presesedent) Lynden Bains Johnson signed an exceutive order reciding Kennedy’s minting of treasury notes. Me and many others beieve that proves the Federal reserve setup the Kennedy assasintation. There areevil forces controling our governement in the shadows and out of our sight. Healcare reform or no healthcare reform, they control our society in many unobvious and far behind the scenes ways. I for one don’t see anything wrong with taking a little advantage of them on it.

 

[Arwen037]

I decided to clear something up though. A defective monetary system is NOT justification for taking other people’s money. While the government may print more, they don’t give it to us to replace what is taken from us. If you want to get what you can from it, convince Obama he should print 100,000 dollars for everybody and give that to them. Apparently that would solve the problem.

By the way, they have a name for people like you. Conspiracy theorists. Or Paranoid. Either works.

But what about Blue Cross? They paid for everything they should have, one thing had to be debated, but that’s all in 18 years. With 5 people on the plan. All of whom have chronic health conditions. But that can’t be possible because they drop anyone with serious health conditions.

 

[aspawloski4th]

I decided to clear something up though. A defective monetary system is NOT justification for taking other people’s money. While the government may print more, they don’t give it to us to replace what is taken from us. If you want to get what you can from it, convince Obama he should print 100,000 dollars for everybody and give that to them. Apparently that would solve the problem.

By the way, they have a name for people like you. Conspiracy theorists. Or Paranoid. Either works.

But what about Blue Cross? They paid for everything they should have, one thing had to be debated, but that’s all in 18 years. With 5 people on the plan. All of whom have chronic health conditions. But that can’t be possible because they drop anyone with serious health conditions.

You are d—mn right I am a cospiriacy theorist! Read the books Amrican’s secret Establishemnt by Anthony Sutton and The Creature from Jekyl Island There are plenty of other books you can pickup at you local American Opinion Bookstore. Father Nicholas Gruner on his show Fatima the Moment Has come has had many guest who have understanding of how it all works too…
As for Blue Cross, come here to Michigan and see if they dont give you any staic over anything other than an office visit. You likely have on the few good Blue cross Associations still around. Maybee Empire Blue Cross?

 

[royal_archer]

… The money is defective, you mights as well get what you can out of it …

Isn’t this the attitude you accuse those “in business” of having?

 

[aspawloski4th]

Isn’t this the attitude you accuse those “in business” of having?

I am a living breathing humanbeing. A business is an entity granted personhood in the USA despite being mainly on paper. Humans have a right to that attitude, after businesses having it for a long time. Rememeber bussnisses got their bailout, I got none. The bussninsses that are banks and insurance companies are back to do ing the same **** that made them need a bailout in the first place.

 

[royal_archer]

I am a living breathing humanbeing. A business is an entity granted personhood in the USA despite being mainly on paper. Humans have a right to that attitude, after businesses having it for a long time. Rememeber bussnisses got their bailout, I got none. The bussninsses that are banks and insurance companies are back to do ing the same **** that made them need a bailout in the first place.

buisnesses are nothing more than people working together to achieve cooperative bennefit. that includes charities, kids selling lemmonaid, private company owners, and large corporations. only a few of them who were politically connected got “bail outs”.

 

[Arwen037]

Why should you get a bail out, but not me? I have debt from college. What makes you better than me? The fact you don’t make enough to cover your bills? Why is that the basis deserving more money. If debt is a good reason to deserve a bail out, then you can’t argue against the companies being bailed out, because they had debt.

On the other hand, I don’t think debt is a reason to be bailed out. I shouldn’t have to pay for other’s debt when I have debt of my own to pay off.

 

[Ella]

Why should you get a bail out, but not me? I have debt from college. What makes you better than me? The fact you don’t make enough to cover your bills? Why is that the basis deserving more money. If debt is a good reason to deserve a bail out, then you can’t argue against the companies being bailed out, because they had debt.

On the other hand, I don’t think debt is a reason to be bailed out. I shouldn’t have to pay for other’s debt when I have debt of my own to pay off.

hmmm. If someone is in debt because they spent more than they can afford on silly things, I agree that I should not have to pay for their debt.

BUT -

if someone is in debt because they have a debilitating illness, I have no problem with helping pay that debt. Not doing so makes me think of the Pharisees walking past the man dying on the road.

AND -

in many cases the health care reform addresses people who want to pay what they can for health insurance, but are not sold a policy, or told that the policy they could buy is for too much money, with too high a deductible, to make it worthwhile to purchase. What do we do with those people? THAT is the answer those who oppose the current health care proposals must answer for me.

 

[Ella]

buisnesses are nothing more than people working together to achieve cooperative bennefit. that includes charities, kids selling lemmonaid, private company owners, and large corporations. only a few of them who were politically connected got “bail outs”.

Actually corporations are unique entities in the United States, and have been granted many ‘rights’ as though they were persons.

pbs.org/now/politics/corprights.html

 

[Arwen037]

We make it affordable through REFORM, not destruction. We outlaw physician owned clinics and labs as a conflict of interest. We make better laws regarding hospital kickbacks for doctors who refer in house. We also allow policies to be bought across state borders. More competition means better prices.

A government run plan is not competition. Nothing can compete with a government plan. They will have different rules. Most notably the government plan won’t have to support itself. If they lose 3 billion dollars, they’ll just tax it out of us. Yeah, it’ll be more affordable for people who can’t support themselves, but it will be completely unaffordable for those of us who are paying for it.

Finally, look up HR 615. Someone said they wanted the plan congress is on. HR 615 is a proposal by a Republican Representative that congress should enroll in health care plan they pass. 43 Republicans signed as co-sponsors, but not a single Democrat. So we won’t be on the same health care plan. They don’t like the plan they’re passing.

 

[royal_archer]

hmmm. If someone is in debt because they spent more than they can afford on silly things, I agree that I should not have to pay for their debt.

BUT -

if someone is in debt because they have a debilitating illness, I have no problem with helping pay that debt. Not doing so makes me think of the Pharisees walking past the man dying on the road. .

What you say is accurate but not relevant. We as individuals must do what we can to help others, but the current health care debate is not about us helping anyone it is about using the brute force of government to redistribute wealth between political constituencies and a transfer of power from we the people to the large political parties.

AND -

in many cases the health care reform addresses people who want to pay what they can for health insurance, but are not sold a policy, or told that the policy they could buy is for too much money, with too high a deductible, to make it worthwhile to purchase. What do we do with those people? THAT is the answer those who oppose the current health care proposals must answer for me.

We have proposed many options that would have made great strides toward reducing the burden down to a manageable level but those have fallen on deaf ears. The left deos not want to solve the problem they are simply using this as an excuse to harm the working class.

 

[royal_archer]

Actually corporations are unique entities in the United States, and have been granted many ‘rights’ as though they were persons.

pbs.org/now/politics/corprights.html

But still they are groups of individuals contractually united for a common purpose. harming corporations harms people, real people. Also corporations only represent a fraction of the buisness world.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Actually corporations are unique entities in the United States, and have been granted many ‘rights’ as though they were persons.

pbs.org/now/politics/corprights.html

Ella blew you away on that one Roayal Archer. That is part of the reason why I am not procorporation

 

[royal_archer]

THE ANT AND THE GRASSHOPPER

This one is a little different…
Two Different Versions! … Two Different Morals!

OLD VERSION: The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed.

The grasshopper has no food or shelter, so he dies out in the cold.

MORAL OF THE STORY: Be responsible for yourself

MODERN VERSION:

The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others are cold and starving.

CBS, NBC , PBS, CNN, and ABC show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food. America is stunned by the sharp contrast.

How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?

Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper and everybody cries when they sing, ‘It’s Not Easy Being Green.’

Acorn stages a demonstration in front of the ant 's house where the news stations film the group singing, ‘We shall overcome.’ Rev. Jeremiah Wright then has the group kneel down to pray to God for the grasshopper’s sake.

Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid exclaim in an interview with Larry King that the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and both call for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his fair share.

Finally, the EEOC drafts the Economic Equity & Anti-Grasshopper Act retroactive to the beginning of the summer.

The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the Government GreenCzar.

The story ends as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ants food while the government house he is in, which just happens to be the ant’s old house, crumbles around him because he doesn’t maintain it.

The ant has disappeared in the snow.

The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize the once peaceful neighborhood.

MORAL OF THE STORY: Be careful how you vote in 2010.

 

[royal_archer]

Ella blew you away on that one Roayal Archer. That is part of the reason why I am not procorporation

By referencing PBS? No on disagrees that corporations, partnerships, marriages, and other entities are treated as single entities when it comes to buisness and regulatory dealings. Although this does not negate that these entities are still collections of real people and attacks on these entities harm those people.

 

[aspawloski4th]

By referencing PBS? No on disagrees that corporations, partnerships, marriages, and other entities are treated as single entities when it comes to buisness and regulatory dealings. Although this does not negate that these entities are still collections of real people and attacks on these entities harm those people.

Although I am a little surprised this is mentioned by PBS< thats not where I learned it. The show I used to put on Fatima the Moment has Come Hosted by Fr Nicholas Gruner used to talk about that, and another show I listened to on radio till the station took it off, The Prophecy Club used to have guest speakers talk about that. I rarely ever use the mass media for my information. I almost forgot I used to listen to talk about that on Chuck Harder’s For the People.

 

[Ella]

By referencing PBS? No on disagrees that corporations, partnerships, marriages, and other entities are treated as single entities when it comes to buisness and regulatory dealings. Although this does not negate that these entities are still collections of real people and attacks on these entities harm those people.

argumentum ad hominem? Either the PBS article is accurate or it is not.

OTOH I am not trying to blow RA or anyone, away. I think we can all discuss this topic and I think all concerns expressed here so far are legitimate.

 

[Ella]

YET ANOTHER ant and grasshopper story.

The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The ant works for a corporation that has excellent company benefits. He never worries about health care costs for himself or his family.

The grasshopper works hard in the heat as well, running a family business he inherited from his father, tilling flowers as a private contractor. But one day he falls off of a flower and breaks his leg in a severe fashion.

The grasshopper’s medical bills pile up.

The grasshopper’s insurance company finds a mistake the grasshopper made when he applied for a health insurance policy 10 years ago. It appears the grasshopper did not mention that he had broken a toe 12 years ago.
The grasshopper’s insurance company through rescission tells the grasshopper that he has a pre-existing condition and that none of his current medical bills are covered. (as absurd as an example as that is, this sort of thing really happens!)

Now the grasshopper wonders what to do… the bills are piling up, he’s missed work so money is not coming in, and during all of this he is in pain.

Meanwhile the ant is laid off by the corporation, which downsizes in the rough economy. The ant can’t afford private health insurance and his mortgage at the same time so he goes for a bit without health insurance, certain he can find work quickly at another corporation. While looking for another job the ant feels faint and goes to the ER, where he is told that he has had a heart attack. The ant ends up in the hospital, and without health insurance the cost for his treatment is well over 200k. In addition, he will require medication for the rest of his life, and is told to ‘take it easy - no more working in the withering heat’. How could this happen to him, after all of his careful planning and hard work?

 

[Shoshana]

YET ANOTHER ant and grasshopper story.

The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The ant works for a corporation that has excellent company benefits. He never worries about health care costs for himself or his family.

The grasshopper works hard in the heat as well, running a family business he inherited from his father, tilling flowers as a private contractor. But one day he falls off of a flower and breaks his leg in a severe fashion.

The grasshopper’s medical bills pile up.

The grasshopper’s insurance company finds a mistake the grasshopper made when he applied for a health insurance policy 10 years ago. It appears the grasshopper did not mention that he had broken a toe 12 years ago.
The grasshopper’s insurance company through rescission tells the grasshopper that he has a pre-existing condition and that none of his current medical bills are covered. (as absurd as an example as that is, this sort of thing really happens!)

Now the grasshopper wonders what to do… the bills are piling up, he’s missed work so money is not coming in, and during all of this he is in pain.

Meanwhile the ant is laid off by the corporation, which downsizes in the rough economy. The ant can’t afford private health insurance and his mortgage at the same time so he goes for a bit without health insurance, certain he can find work quickly at another corporation. While looking for another job the ant feels faint and goes to the ER, where he is told that he has had a heart attack. The ant ends up in the hospital, and without health insurance the cost for his treatment is well over 200k. In addition, he will require medication for the rest of his life, and is told to ‘take it easy - no more working in the withering heat’. How could this happen to him, after all of his careful planning and hard work?

Such absolute wisdom!:bowdown::bowdown2: